Windscreen Cracked

Bluesman · September 22, 2013

An old saying goes like this.....................

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

That's exactly why I've stated many times I'm not arguing with Mike ;)

I agree with what ever he says. I am completely in the wrong and I apologise to the entire country that I have insulted together with all window fitters and shop staff throughout the kingdom. Mike

matt-c · September 22, 2013

Good on ya, Mike. Takes a big man to admit when he's made a mistake. Apology accepted :)

steve2006 · September 22, 2013

Once again as a moderator I have to make decisions whilst trying to remain fair and impartial to all members.

Everyone has the right to put their point of view across and equally everyone has the right to interpret the views posted as they see fit and make a reply within reason.

This is a Lexus LS400 forum and at the beginning it was certainly LS400 related regarding a windscreen replacement but seems to have become somewhat of a slanging match between certain members.

What new members to this forum must think I do not know but if I were one I would not be particulary impressed.

As I have said you all have your own opinions regarding this topic but it has I think at this point become too personal and certainly completely off topic.

I was going to lock this topic immediately as a suggestion has been made by a member for moderator intervention but I will leave it open for the time being in the hope things can be settled amicably, however if it continues I will lock this topic.

Bluesman · September 25, 2013

The final, chapter.

A young guy called Chris arrived today at 3.30 from AA auto screens, and what a nice chap.

Was careful to note any scratches on the car or other damage, which I signed for, fair enough. Made him a cup of tea while he set about removing the old screen. An hour 20 mins later new screen fitted all nice and clean, no greasy dirty marks anywhere inside or out.

Paid my £70 insurance excess. My faith restored in screen fitting, and I had a lovely brand new screen to look through for about 5 mins as the heavens opened. Happy bunny

Oh yes he quite like my sheep skin rugs.

LexIS200Sport · September 25, 2013

Glad to hear that all went well, happy days :)

Mike Floutier · October 15, 2014

Ok, just reading through this as a massive stone hit my 2006 LS430 screen last night - sounded like a brick!

I've just read the Manual for replacement. 13 pages for removal plus 13 for replacement PLUS 5 sets of sub-system instructions.

I also recall my 2002 LS430 screen replacement (Autoglass) leaving the rain sensor malfunctioning (even after returning for new gel strip)

Any latest thoughts on best approach to this?

ambermarine · October 15, 2014

The only way you will get a guaranteed job is to take it to a Lexus dealership, yes of course it will cost more than if you took it to one of the trade suppliers but you will be guaranteed a happy outcome.

n4chv · October 15, 2014

I had to replace the windscreen on my LS400 a few years ago (around 2004) and I got Autoglass to supply & fit this. At the time my insurance excess was £50. It would have cost me £400 if I had been expected to pay the full cost. There was no problem with this new screen fitting and definitely no leaks.

The excess on my current 3 cars is now £70 so not a huge increase compared to a few years ago. Some insurers have been raising their excesses in order to offer lower annual premiums. Most of them will let you reduce your excess but then the premiums will rise.

For the last few years, a number of jobs such as changing windscreens and mechanical jobs like changing the oil, changing brake discs and pads can be done by the majority of local garages - anyone who says you must go to a franchise dealer is talking rubbish.

ambermarine · October 15, 2014

Nach

I take exception to your comment and if you read through this thread from the start you will see there have been some bad experiences, in fact the thread I have replied to as had a bad experience on his previous car .Be very careful what you say to members on this forum as advice you might need in the future will likely be witheld, in case it is classed as rubbish.

n4chv · October 15, 2014

I am entitled to comment and give my opinion on this - what exactly are you taking exception to ?

I have simply spoken of my experience and I'm very careful about what I say.

Maybe you need to be the one who should be careful. There's absolutely no need for this comment / post from you.

It's a members forum and we are all entitled to give our opinions !

Mike Floutier · October 15, 2014

I recently had some bodywork done by a coachwork specialist. Lexus Colindale outsource all their bodywork to them.

I thought the workmanship was excellent and thought I would phone them to ask their opinion about the windscreen issue.

We had a long relaxed chat and the upshot was:

1. The Lexus dealer will do the best job for the car but it will be expensive.

2. If it was his car he would get a glass specialist such as National Windscreens and keep a close eye on the work.

I accept the comment that a lot of jobs on the car can be done by any garage; indeed this is the reason why we work on our own cars and this form exists.

However, some jobs are complicated, require special tools, and are infrequently carried out by local garages on Lexuses.

I am still waiting for Lexus Colindale to come back to me with a price for my windscreen. Having read the instructions, I am not surprised. This delay is also an indication of how frequently they carry out this work.

RXJasonRX · October 15, 2014

Hello. This year I had to reduce my windscreen due to a chip that turned in to a crack. My insurance company called the AA windscreen people . I made sure they had the right screen before they came, as my RX has rain sensors. They came and did a great job.

Mike Floutier · October 15, 2014

Hi Jason, thanks for this positive feedback, what was the cost?

Lexus have just come back with a quote for my LS430 and it's just short of £1,000.

matt-c · October 15, 2014

I recently had some bodywork done by a coachwork specialist. Lexus Colindale outsource all their bodywork to them.

I thought the workmanship was excellent and thought I would phone them to ask their opinion about the windscreen issue.

We had a long relaxed chat and the upshot was:

1. The Lexus dealer will do the best job for the car but it will be expensive.

2. If it was his car he would get a glass specialist such as National Windscreens and keep a close eye on the work.

I accept the comment that a lot of jobs on the car can be done by any garage; indeed this is the reason why we work on our own cars and this form exists.

However, some jobs are complicated, require special tools, and are infrequently carried out by local garages on Lexuses.

I am still waiting for Lexus Colindale to come back to me with a price for my windscreen. Having read the instructions, I am not surprised. This delay is also an indication of how frequently they carry out this work.

1) The Lexus dealer won't replace the windscreen. No main dealers undertake bonded glass replacement. They don't have the equipment or the training/certification to do so. All bonded glass replacements, beit front screen or tiny rear quarter glass, will be subbed out to a contractor. Some will sub out to the "big boys" (Autoglass, AA, etc) but many will sub out to smaller firms. So whilst you might be getting a dealer screen and trim fitted, you may not be getting the best person to fit it (reason I say this is not to belittle the smaller firms, but because they work on price - the more jobs they do per day the more they get paid. So spending half a day doing one screen is not in their interest; it's better for them to "bang out the work" and move on. Not the best work ethic IMO. Secondly, without being consulted first, Lexus may well not order clips that might be needed, and upon removal of the screen and those clips being broken, it's too late to get a set in for replacement that day. Lexus, like most dealerships, do not carry stock of anything except the most common parts; batteries, wipers, some tyres, and point of sale accessories. Anything to do with glass is special order only)

2) I wouldn't even let National Windscreens clean my screen, let alone replace it. Again, this is not a dig at a rival company, this is personal experience of the company as a whole, and the majority of their fitters. There are of course some excellent fitters there, just as there are not so good fitters in even the better companies, but the way to company operates it's business, and requires it's fitters to work and behave, is very focused on cost cutting and profit maximisation (business 101), but sadly at the cost of the customer. Patent part glass, rarely any new trims supplied, even for applications where you should fit new trims (not every car or application needs a new trim, and in some cases it's better to reuse the original then fit a new one; for example, current model Toyota Yaris - it's better to remove the screen with the trim still fitted, then reuse the trim on the new screen, because the new trims don't sit down as nicely in the aperture as the originals, which were fitted in a controlled environment, and have had time to "bed in" to look their best. Outside in the parking lot of your work on a miserable cold day isn't a controlled environment, and a fresh, hard, trim isn't going to want to sit down snugly).

My advice? Have it done on the insurance - for a start it's what you're paying for all these years. Secondly, you're likely to get a more reputable windscreen firm such as Autoglass or the AA out to do the replacement; both of which companies have their own fully fledged training schools and the majority of their fitters are ATA registered and certified. NVQ means nothing these days; ATA is now the recognised and preferred qualification of both the windscreen firms and the insurance companies. Along with that, whilst the fitters at these companies are on a bonus scheme for work undertaken, the time allotted for the jobs is higher, and less rush is put on to "lash it out" and move on. If a job takes me half a day to get right, then it takes half a day. If it's silky smooth and goes like a dream, then great - but if it turns out to be a pain in the arse then grin and bear it, and it takes as long as it takes. None of us want a job coming back under warranty, beit for unsatisfied customer, leaking, windnoise, trims adrift, etc. The idea is get it right the first time, and only see that customer again when he or she needs a new screen because of another stone chip (or vandalism, accidental damage etc). Thirdly, tools - the bigger the company, the more likely that technician is going to have the right tools. Most of use do use our own tools, but we're also supplied with company tools, which include specialist tools to complete specific tasks. Your smaller companies, and less reputable ones that focus on minimising outlay to maximise profit, won't have made that investment in specialist tools. For example, BMW Mini door glass adjustment tools - besides BMW I only know of two companies that invested in supplying their fitters with these tools. Both start with A... Or Audi Q7 wiper removal tool - there's only one company that paid for and supplied ALL their techs with this tool. Everyone else just struggles, which can often lead to damaging the paintwork in the underside of the bonnet when trying to remove the driver's side wiper arm. Lastly, warranty. Should the worst happen and something go wrong with the job, do you want a "warranty" from a company that isn't interested in rectifying the situation and their cost, or a warranty from a class leading company, that has the customer service base, and the pockets deep enough, to fulfil it. One particular company, I know actually bought a customer a brand new £40,000 Audi cabriolet after the interior of one was destroyed by a fitter dropping a bottle of primer inside it. There's not many companies that would, or could, do that. Same company rebuilt a boundary wall for a customer after another tech spilt primer on that. However, a company that won't pay for a £12 trim for a BMW Mini aren't likely to do that for you. And whilst you would have warranty through Lexus if you had them sub the work out for you, Lexus can't rectify the situation - the glass company has to.

Hope some or all of this is some help.

matt-c · October 15, 2014

The only way you will get a guaranteed job is to take it to a Lexus dealership, yes of course it will cost more than if you took it to one of the trade suppliers but you will be guaranteed a happy outcome.

Incorrect. See reasons in post above.

Mike Floutier · October 15, 2014

Many thanks Matt, I've decided to go to Autoglass via the insurance company (£60 excess, no limit). They are happy for me to use Lexus but impose a £250 cap.

I told them about my previous bad experience with the rain sensor. They asked me when this was and, rightly pointed out, that nowadays these sensors are a lot more common and the company trains techs to fit them. Fair comment.

Regarding the trim problems I had previously I guess I just need to ensure I monitor the work and ensure that it's all fitted ok.

Will let you know how it goes.

ambermarine · October 15, 2014

No it is not incorrect as I have already said if Lexus take the job on they will guarantee it is done right regardless as to weather they sub it out or not.

End of.

And as for your question Nach "What exactly am i objecting to "

The fact that you suggest my advice is rubbish, as you say we are entitled to our opinion on the subject matter but not to insult members .I warn you again, be careful what you say and who you say it to.We are all trying to offer advice that we think may be helpful to the person asking for it. In my experience it is good manners to offer advice and leave it at that .Let the recipient decide on the value of any advice given by others.

matt-c · October 15, 2014

No it is not incorrect as I have already said if Lexus take the job on they will guarantee it is done right regardless as to weather they sub it out or not.

End of.

Nope, still incorrect. I take it you've never changed a windscreen on behalf of a main dealer before?

ambermarine · October 15, 2014

I have no intention of getting into a debate with you similar to the previous one you had with a well respected member that turned into a slanging match .

I am simply saying that I would have the backing of Lexus anytime to help me should a dispute evolve with the windscreen fitter and having read the history of your dispute with the member mentioned that would be no bad thing . As far as this matter is concerned now the initial request for advice as been settled by the asker I have no more to say on the matter .And I think you are on the wrong forum by the way this is the ls400 site not is200.

n4chv · October 15, 2014

I have no intention of getting into a debate with you similar to the previous one you had with a well respected member that turned into a slanging match .

I am simply saying that I would have the backing of Lexus anytime to help me should a dispute evolve with the windscreen fitter and having read the history of your dispute with the member mentioned that would be no bad thing . As far as this matter is concerned now the initial request for advice as been settled by the asker I have no more to say on the matter .And I think you are on the wrong forum by the way this is the ls400 site not is200.

You started this debate and rant at me because I expressed an opinion which I am well entitled to do. If you don't like my comments, do me a favour and ignore what I say but don't have a go at me for saying what I wanted to. And just for the record, I have an LS430 now and I did own an LS400 for over 13 years ! #somepeopleneedtogetreal

n4chv · October 15, 2014

No it is not incorrect as I have already said if Lexus take the job on they will guarantee it is done right regardless as to weather they sub it out or not.

End of.

And as for your question Nach "What exactly am i objecting to "

The fact that you suggest my advice is rubbish, as you say we are entitled to our opinion on the subject matter but not to insult members .I warn you again, be careful what you say and who you say it to.We are all trying to offer advice that we think may be helpful to the person asking for it. In my experience it is good manners to offer advice and leave it at that .Let the recipient decide on the value of any advice given by others.

I have expressed an opinion and nothing more. And I do not recall saying your advice was rubbish either so get over yourself and ego and stop having a pointless rant at me for no good reason. I expressed an opinion as have other people and thanks for suggesting that the recipient can decide on the value of advice given. That's SO reasonable of you ! You can take your warnings and do whatever the hell you like with them but DO NOT HAVE A GO AT ME for expressing an opinion !

ambermarine · October 16, 2014

"Anyone who says you must go to franchised dealer is talking rubbish" your words in your post .

n4chv · October 16, 2014

"Anyone who says you must go to franchised dealer is talking rubbish" your words in your post .

This is my friggin opinion - if you don't like it, you can just ignore it !

I have no ideas why insist on having a go at me - clearly, you need to get yourself a life !

Now go do one and leave me alone. I will continue to express any opinion I have you idiot.

And feel free to try reporting me if you wish too. You are the one being a total a-hole having a go at someone for expressing their view.

#rantoverfornow

ambermarine · October 16, 2014

If someone says I am talking rubbish they need to be able to show why they think that .You are a bit free with your mouth and I suspect it as got you in trouble before so stop the temprature rise and think before you speak.

matt-c · October 16, 2014

I have no intention of getting into a debate with you similar to the previous one you had with a well respected member that turned into a slanging match .

I am simply saying that I would have the backing of Lexus anytime to help me should a dispute evolve with the windscreen fitter and having read the history of your dispute with the member mentioned that would be no bad thing . As far as this matter is concerned now the initial request for advice as been settled by the asker I have no more to say on the matter .And I think you are on the wrong forum by the way this is the ls400 site not is200.

Im sorry, I didn't realise you ran the forum and could tell me where I can and can't post?

But since you do have all the answers, could you please enlighten me as to how having Lexus contract the work would "guarantee" the best job possible?