Cam Belt Change

[nelmo]

OK, I did a 'bad thing' - I took a seller's word for it. :eerrrmm:

Just bought my 100k mile RX400h and the seller assured me the cambelt had been changed at the last service. As that service was at a Lexus dealer and the service book was all stamped up, I trusted him - doh!

Turns out, he bought the car from some local dealer just after that service and he was told by the garage that it had been done - but he never checked either. I called the Lexus dealer and that service was just an interim service - no cambelt changed by them. It's possible this garage (I'm waiting for my seller to come back to me with a name) did it locally, but how likely is that?

So, while I mull over the legal implications, is there any physical way of telling if the cambelt has been changed?

[Duncan Roberts]

Oh dear!

Misrepresentation it would seem: Do you have it in writing that the belt was done? If not you maybe down to one man's word against another. I am assuming that this was a private purchase not via a dealer so you may well be in some difficulties and have to have recourse to the Courts - if the evidence is any good.

Don't worry about the dealer chain, your recourse is solely against your vendor, he may pass the compliment on if he can but that is his concern not yours.

[nelmo]

I have an email from him 'confirming' the belt was done - I assume that counts as 'writing' these days?

My main concern initially is whether the belt has actually been changed - I don't mind if it wasn't done by a Lexus dealer. That is why I am chasing up his dealer...

[Duncan Roberts]

I have an email from him 'confirming' the belt was done - I assume that counts as 'writing' these days?

My main concern initially is whether the belt has actually been changed - I don't mind if it wasn't done by a Lexus dealer. That is why I am chasing up his dealer...

The email is enough. It really should be for him to evidence - the dealer has no duty to speak to you at all.

[nelmo]

Thanks Duncan

[jasons]

Private Sale?- if so, you have no chance at all. It will be his word against yours if you go small claims, but his defence will be that he was told it, just like you were.

Caveat Emptor

[nelmo]

Private Sale?- if so, you have no chance at all. It will be his word against yours if you go small claims, but his defence will be that he was told it, just like you were.

Caveat Emptor

Not quite - I have the confirmation in writing which, as Duncan said (and CAB have confirmed), that is mis-representation. So I could take him to the small claims court and I should win (unless the judge has an off-day). However, a lot of hassle...

CAB have said I should ask him to pay half - if he refuses, then that just strengthens my position in the court case.

But yes, 'caveat emptor' indeed... :eerrrmm:

[Beejay]

If the Lexus Rx engine is like my Toyota MK IV Supra VVTi then even if the belt breaks the valves do not kiss the pistons. Annoying but

easily repairable. :) Unlike a Porsche 911......... :(

[nelmo]

If the Lexus Rx engine is like my Toyota MK IV Supra VVTi then even if the belt breaks the valves do not kiss the pistons. Annoying but

easily repairable. :) Unlike a Porsche 911......... :(

Yes, interestingly, I read an old post from an LS400 owner who said the same thing...

I've also realised that the 100k mile service is obviously due (I really didn't do enough homework, did I? ) and it's a biggy. However, I've found a Toyota specialist who has quoted me £470 (inc. VAT) for the 100k service AND the cambelt (but not the tensioner - he says they rarely need to be changed), which seems a good price?

The Lexus dealer quoted £780, which is less than I expected (and they don't include the tensioner, although they said it would only be £35 more if it was needed).

So I'm slightly happier now than I was yesterday...

[ColinBarber]

If the Lexus Rx engine is like my Toyota MK IV Supra VVTi then even if the belt breaks the valves do not kiss the pistons. Annoying but

easily repairable. :) Unlike a Porsche 911......... :(

I believe the 400h uses an interference engine design so you really don't want the belt to fail. It seems most Toyota engines from 2000 onwards are interference, mainly due to the continual increases in compression ratios being used.

[Gills]

I have a similar problem at the moment I have just bought a rx300 with 70,000 miles on the clock it's a 52 plate and has full lexus history but in the service history book it has written a full service and cam belt change which was only 4000 miles ago but the invoice receipt does not say this, it is only for all the other parts that were changed ? Is there a reason for this ? How can I tell if it has been done and who would I contact if I were to query it to prove it has been done ? Lexus themselves ?

[ColinBarber]

If a Lexus dealer changes the cambelt they normally put a sticking on the cam cover with the date of replacement.

If you know who the dealer is then phone them up, they should confirm for you if it was done.

[nelmo]

I have a similar problem at the moment I have just bought a rx300 with 70,000 miles on the clock it's a 52 plate and has full lexus history but in the service history book it has written a full service and cam belt change which was only 4000 miles ago but the invoice receipt does not say this, it is only for all the other parts that were changed ? Is there a reason for this ? How can I tell if it has been done and who would I contact if I were to query it to prove it has been done ? Lexus themselves ?

You should be able to tell by the cost of the invoice - a dealer will charge about £700 for a cambelt change, so if the invoice is for over £1k (assuming it had a normal service at the same time), that might suggest the belt was done.

However, I would also expect it to be listed so I'd imagine it hasn't been done.

When I called Lexus about my car, their records only showed the service done and no details - they are the ones who suggested by the price of the service that it had not been done, in my case.

[Gills]

So I rang the lexus dealer today and they said that on their records it has been done but on my invoice it is not shown all it shows is a full service and little bits coming to about £530 so I don't really know what to do as you can't really see if it has been changed can you ? Is there anyway to tell ?

[nelmo]

I know you're new but are you reading the replies? Colin mentioned a sticker?

And as I said, if the invoice was £500 for a full service, then the belt wasn't done - it would have been at least £1k otherwise...

[Gills]

Nelmo,

yes i am new and yes i am reading the previous posts, i have checked earlier and there is a sticker saying it has been changed but i do NOT have a receipt for this being done as i repeat again the invoice is only for the full service parts so would you assume it is done ? seeing as the invoice date and mileage match the service book and the sticker under the bonnet ? like you said nelmo you would be looking at more than £1000 ?

[ColinBarber]

I had my 100k service done at the end of last year which included the cam belt and it came to around £800 with a bit of a discount for being over 5 years old. This was from one of the most expensive Lexus dealers in the country. Tensioner or water pump didn't need replacing.

A normal full service is around the £300 mark but can be more if both brake fluid and coolant changes are required . £530 for a service with a cam belt change is a great deal from a main dealer.

[Gills]

This is the service in question, as I said lexus have said that it has been done but I may just be missing the invoice maybe they can email me a copy ?

[ColinBarber]

that doesn't appear to be a standard service invoice at all. That is for non scheduled work replacing the exhaust.

The dealer should be able to give you another copy, although they may not be willing to as it is in somebody else's name.

[Gills]

That's what I was thinking parts wise I shall ring them tomorrow and have that conversation they were very helpful earlier so they might send me a copy.

[Boxbrownie]

As said thats not a service invoice but for repairs, ring them and ask for a copy of the documents for the service carried out, hopefully it will include the belt change, it may just be the previous owner has failed to pass on the service/belt invoice......easily done.

[Gills]

ok,

so after speaking to the Lexus main dealer that serviced the car last they have confirmed that the cam belt and service was completed coming to a total of over £700 which is more like it plus the previous attachment at the same time so all in all about £1300 on the last visit which has now rested my mind, i did asked for a copy of the invoice with no bank details obviously but they have said that they have changed there computer systems which was in 2003 therefore cannot print off previous invoices which is a pain, don't think i will be able to get a copy from anywhere ? looks like as said in previous post that it has just been mislayed, oh well at least its done, thanks for the input guys.

[Boxbrownie]

thats really nice to know, well worth the effort. You might want to try sending the previous owner a letter asking if he has possibly tucked it away with other papers, might get lucky.

I did this with my ML even though it was only 3 years old and came with a printed service history (MB do not use service books any more) and I recieved a wad of papers including the original purchase invoice, very useful and worth a few hundred extra when it comes to sell (as I recently did!).

[DanD]

It seems that, although they may not be able to re-print the invoice, they can view it... in which case, they should be able to do a screen print and send that to you via email.

Just a thought.

[Boxbrownie]

It seems that, although they may not be able to re-print the invoice, they can view it... in which case, they should be able to do a screen print and send that to you via email.

Just a thought.

Now your being stupid...............applying logic to a dealers way of thinking :D