High Mileage

[nelmo]

I was considering changing my car to a second-hand RX but the wife has thrown a spanner in the works by saying she would prefer a small run-around for herself as well.

So, my great idea is to get a older, cheaper RX (just for caravan towing duties). A friend has recommended an eBay seller who specialises in selling high-mileage cars cheaply - they have an '07 RX400h with (take a breath) 155k miles on the clock

Now, it's obviously been a company car as it is only one owner and has a full Lexus SH (14 services!) and a very high spec.

I was considering bidding up to £6k and taking out an extended warranty to cover the big bits breaking.

What does everyone think? Crazy idea?

As an idea, a 100k mileage '05 RX400h is on sale for £8k.

Anyone know if there any big servicing jobs due after this mileage on a hybrid?

[Tyrosman]

I would try to find out the Battery life expectancy and cost of replacements.

[nelmo]

I would try to find out the battery life expectancy and cost of replacements.

According to various sources, lots of Toyota Prius's with 200k+ miles and no Battery issues (replacement is about £2k, I believe?). As I only expect to do a max of 5k miles a year, that will give me at least 10 years before I have to worry too much?

[ColinBarber]

batteries shouldn't be an issue and if they go source them from a breakers.

The big service costs are for the cambelt every 100k miles.

Make sure an extended warranty will pay out for big expenses. If the inverter or electric motors needed replacing you would be looking at £2k+ from Lexus. Also make sure the warranty will pay main dealer labour rates, you may find it difficult to get an independent to work on a hybrid for anything other that routine servicing.

[malibu]

If you're not too fussed about purchasing a pristine model, you might consider buying at auction. At auction, there is a possibility that you could get a lower mileage one cheaper, but the body work may have dents, scratches or paint problems.

[nelmo]

hmmm, bit of a stumbling block - can't find anywhere that offers a warranty for cars over 150k miles (which I guess is understandable).

Anyone know of one?

[jonthebarber]

Hi

Why not put , say , £100 a month away and use that for repairs ? If you could get a warranty it would properly be around that , if not more . Only a thought :-)

Jon

[nelmo]

Thank you all for your replies - and I'm amazed no-one has yet told me I'm mad for even contemplating this

Not sure if that means you're all nuttier than me or you just want to watch the ensuing chaos as my new acquisition self-destructs a week after buying it

[vadre]

I have towed with the RX300 and now RX400h. To be honest the difference in towing capability and fuel consumption is not significant. The RX 300 in my opinion gives a smoother and quieter ride but does loose out to the 400h on performance.

An RX300 can be found for much less than a 400h and often with sensible mileage, and of course no Hybrid worries

.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201306117234585/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/price-from/6000/price-to/7000/fuel-type/petrol/model/rx/make/lexus/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/100/postcode/po62jy/page/1?logcode=p

If you are new to the RX scene and need to get in cheaply, I personally would go for something similar to that at this link.

[jasons]

When I was looking for an RX through Lexus Guildford I was looking at 400's as they had a part ex's coming in.

I was looking at a 90k RX400, and a 70k RX300- the sales guy said 'you don't want a high milage 400'- no reason for him to push the 300 as it was much cheaper and so far, been happy with it.

My wife has one of the new Yaris hybrids- amazing economy from it, but not in the same league (obviously)..

My advice would be to buy the lowest mileage RX you can afford, hybrid or not.

As you've said, aftermarket warranty wont touch high milages- for a reason?

Could be a potential money pit as components start to reach the end of their life and allthough there are lots of hybrid Prius on 200k plus, its a very different beast to the RX.

There was a post recently with someone with an inverter failure and (surprisingly?) Lexus werent interested with an eye watering bill to match.

You only need a problem like that and you've reached the price cut off between your cheap high miler and a low milage example..

J

[nelmo]

Darn, I knew some sensible people would turn up

I have thought about an RX300 but it's just doesn't feel as exciting to me...the hybrid is genuinely different and interesting IMO. Yes, the inverter is a concern but didn't that person have his problem with a low mileage RX (40k)? Suggests mileage is irrelevant for that issue, no? And that is the only post I've seen about that issue, so how likely is it?

To be honest, I might prefer a BMW X5 instead of the RX300 - the 3.0D is considered to be one of the best engines ever - powerful and economical.

Gawd, I don't know....

[jonthebarber]

Mmmm

Doesn't the BMW 3.0 engine have a habit of ingesting part of its inlet system which kisses goodbye to the motor ?

[ColinBarber]

be under no illusion that an RX300/350 would be cheaper to repair than a 400h. Have a transmission or air suspension failure and you are parting with £1,000s if a Lexus dealer is doing the work.

X5's have issues with transmissions, cats and turbos; much more so than any reliability issues with any RX.

[Tyrosman]

Reading through the RX postings on various pages it does appear that there are more problems associated with the hybrid versions as opposed to the petrol engine only models. Maybe it is because of the complexity i.e. more components that could fail. I find it hard to accept that if one of the hybrid components fail (such as the inverter) the vehicle comes to a halt. Although there is a perfectly willing V6 engine sitting under the bonnet which is unable to, or prevented from, powering the vehicle. Sounds like the well known phrase 'The computer says NO'.

I visited a local Toyota/Lexus independent specialist to have my transmission and coolant fluids changed. When I asked the owner regarding RX300 reliability he said that they were very reliable. I then asked him about the hybrid version reliability, his eyes went skywards and said 'that's another story'.

[ColinBarber]

Reading through the RX postings on various pages it does appear that there are more problems associated with the hybrid versions as opposed to the petrol engine only models. Maybe it is because of the complexity i.e. more components that could fail. I find it hard to accept that if one of the hybrid components fail (such as the inverter) the vehicle comes to a halt. Although there is a perfectly willing V6 engine sitting under the bonnet which is unable to, or prevented from, powering the vehicle. Sounds like the well known phrase 'The computer says NO'.

I visited a local Toyota/Lexus independent specialist to have my transmission and coolant fluids changed. When I asked the owner regarding RX300 reliability he said that they were very reliable. I then asked him about the hybrid version reliability, his eyes went skywards and said 'that's another story'.

I'd like to hear about these reliability issues. On these forums there are a couple of issues with the 400h related to the hybrid system and that is it (an inverter or two and a rear motor). The biggest reliability issue on the series II RX is the air suspension which wasn't available on the hybrids.

The main reason why discussions are around the 400h on these forums is just a numbers thing in that it outsold the 300/350 to such an extent that Lexus stopped selling the non-hybrid version.

[DanD]

I think that you could do a lot worse that sourcing your car from an authorised LExus dealer. The car would automatically come with one year warranty and you can be reasonably confident that it will have been given a thorough check over. Also, in case of problems, the dealer might be a little more sympathetic if you have bought the car within their network.

If you check the Lexus website, the cheapest RX400h is an 07 SE-L model, with approx 92,000 miles for £11,995.

They have some 300/350 models starting at £6,450 for a '04 SE model with 97,450 miles.

vadre mentionned that the 300 (and 350) may seem quieter. This could be because they use a conventional auto gear box, as oppposed to the CVT gearbox that comes with the 400h. The CVT is obviously very smooth and quiet at constant speed but causes the engine to howl when you put the foot down! Still... a small price to pay given the performance on tap.

[nelmo]

As to my original post, I have to budget for 2 cars, so yes, buying from a dealer is nice but expensive.

What I find interesting from this thread and another one I posted on another non-Lexus forum (which has many more members), is that no-one has come back to say, 'I bought a high mileage car and I've had to replace x, y and z and it's cost me a fortune'.

All the experiences are of people who have bought a high-miler and either still have it and it's fine or they never had any problems and would happily do it again (or maybe they're too embarrassed to admit the problems they had? )

Yet whenever you suggest buying a high-miler, there's lots of breath-intakes and shaking of heads - where does this discrimination come from?

Even I had that reaction, which makes no sense when I realised that my first VW Polo easily lasted to 134,000 miles (in 1990) and my current 2006 Suzuki motorbike (not considered the most reliable) has 90k miles on it, with no issues (and that is stratospheric mileage for a bike).

[jonthebarber]

Hi

Does it have to be a hybrid ? I bought a 05 rx300 se-l with 85k all the bits , couple of owners and a full history for under 6k , I did get it as a trade sale , so no warranty as pretty confident they are reliable ..... And I was proved right , apart from a leeking rear diff (cured by a £10 seal) serviced it , which was so easy to do , went all over the car on a ramp with mate , who is a mot tester and all was good . Down side is the fuel cost , but only do 6000 miles a year

As they say the choice is yours and we could all argue about who's right and who's wrong , but its all down to personal taste , but after going through most makes of cars in my life the most cars I have had are lexus and the longest I have kept a car was 3 years and that was a ....... Lexus (is200)

Jon

[ColinBarber]

As to my original post, I have to budget for 2 cars, so yes, buying from a dealer is nice but expensive.

What I find interesting from this thread and another one I posted on another non-Lexus forum (which has many more members), is that no-one has come back to say, 'I bought a high mileage car and I've had to replace x, y and z and it's cost me a fortune'.

All the experiences are of people who have bought a high-miler and either still have it and it's fine or they never had any problems and would happily do it again (or maybe they're too embarrassed to admit the problems they had? )

Yet whenever you suggest buying a high-miler, there's lots of breath-intakes and shaking of heads - where does this discrimination come from?

Even I had that reaction, which makes no sense when I realised that my first VW Polo easily lasted to 134,000 miles (in 1990) and my current 2006 Suzuki motorbike (not considered the most reliable) has 90k miles on it, with no issues (and that is stratospheric mileage for a bike).

With regards to the series II RX there really aren't enough high mileage examples out there to know about trends, hybrid or normal models. I cannot say what the average life of wheel bearings, suspension bushes, shocks, exhaust and cat etc. are or things like engine and transmission oil seals. If these things start to need replacing, that is where high running costs can come from.

[nelmo]

Oh well, all moot now, as I didn't win the auction - it went for £6,400...bugger!!

[Robiati]

I'm coming in a bit late on this. Especially as it's now a moot point for the original poster. But I bought an 07 RX400h with 62k on the clock three years back. It now has just over 90k. Below are a few thoughts in case they're of interest.

The only issues I've had other than routine maintenance (just forked out for timing belt etc.) have been trim and finish related. I have the common issue with the alloy wheel finish and the flock-like stuff on the door pillars has started to peel off (annoying but not too noticeable and nothing to do with the hybrid system). So far there have been no additional costs arising from the hybrid system at all (touch wood). I think the rolling of eyes by various mechanics may be as much lack of knowledge/certainty as anything else. Perhaps I'm wrong but I'd ask them for examples they know of first hand.

Beyond that, in my view it's a mistake to compare the RX300 and RX400h too directly. In many senses they are totally different beasts. I've known people average 38mpg in an RX400h though I've no idea how. If I'm sensible I can average a touch over 30 but that's rare because I'm too heavy footed. What's interesting about the 400h is you can pootle around and squeeze every last possible mile per gallon or you can drive enthusiastically and get really good performance. Pick up at speed is really exceptional when all motors fire at once.

At some point batteries or inverter may deliver a hefty bill. But the many Prius's at high mileage are encouraging. Yes the RX is a larger beast but that is not necessarily a bad thing for overall Battery life. And there are potential high milage benefits to a hybrid too. Conventional engines are at their most stressed and least efficient when getting a car moving from standstill. That's when electric motors come into their own with their instant torque availability. On a hybrid they do much of the work in getting a car in motion thereby removing from the petrol engine it's most stressful and least efficient role. The petrol engine returns the favour by taking over were it's more efficient. It remains to be seen what this will do for longevity over time but it is at least in theory possible that the petrol engines on hybrids will be much less stressed than on non-hybrid equivalents and this may save on non-routine engine repairs as the miles pile on.

Such savings may be small beer if your inverter goes but the point is it isn't just a one way street.

[nelmo]

Interestingly enough, I have now found my Lexus, an '07 RX400h with 100k miles - sound similar?

I've only had it less than a week but already, the fuel economy is impressive, compared to my old car. Most of my (wife's) driving is round town on school runs and short hops and I'm so far averaging 30mpg - my diesel Santa Fe was getting 22mpg in the same circumstances.

Interesting point about the electric motors taking stress off the engine - I was wondering how much extra stress all that stop-start stuff was doing to the engine.

[Meakesmyster]

Hi Neil,

I am in the same position you was in.

I'm looking at a budget of max 8500 which will only buy me a 2007 model with 100000 on the clock.

I'm concerned of paying for expensive repair bills.

Are you still happy with yours and have you had any costl repairs

[nelmo]

Hi Neil,

I am in the same position you was in.

I'm looking at a budget of max 8500 which will only buy me a 2007 model with 100000 on the clock.

I'm concerned of paying for expensive repair bills.

Are you still happy with yours and have you had any costl repairs

Nope, no problems since I got mine.

I had to do the 100k mile service and cambelt change, which cost me £575 from an independent garage. Changed the tyres and its just sailed through its MOT with a comment that the 2 front rubber suspension bushes are deteriorated and may need replacing next year, although the guy suggested it wasn't a big job.

However, I wouldn't buy the car if you think you're going to save loads of money on petrol. I reckon the hybrid only gets 5-10 mpg better economy than a similar size car (X5, XC90 etc). If you do 20k miles a year, maybe thats significant...

But it is the best car I've owned - smooth, fast, quiet and the first car in years that I look for an excuse to drive somewhere :-)

[Meakesmyster]

Hi neil,

Is the 5_10 mpg extra not a positive as im going from 50mpg in a run so going to 30mpg is going to hard enough but losing an extra 5-10 mpg would make the difference too much

mike