Mid Stream Change Of Address And Insurers Rip-Off

Lexmanic · August 3, 2013

Dave I see so your being pedantic & didn't you try to discourge the OP from asking for the information that could clarify why his premium had been increased!

The term 'protection officer' is a recent invention, they are Data Controllers as is anyone who handles personal data. These firms nominate someone so that all requests go through that one person/department & who can carry the can if it goes wrong.

Just how many SAR's have you sent or dealt with in your career.

A SAR request should always be accompanied by the fee of £10

dave1 · August 3, 2013

Dave I see so your being pedantic & didn't you try to discourge the OP from asking for the information that could clarify why his premium had been increased!

The term 'protection officer' is a recent invention, they are Data Controllers as is anyone who handles personal data. These firms nominate someone so that all requests go through that one person/department & who can carry the can if it goes wrong.

Just how many SAR's have you sent or dealt with in your career.

A SAR request should always be accompanied by the fee of £10

OK Jon, just to answer your points.

1/ No I did not try to discourage the OP from asking for the relevant info. I stated that I felt he would be unlikely to obtain the particular info he wanted (my opinion but not a certainty).

2/ You stated categorically that the only data protection officer that you knew of worked for the ICO. If that were really the case then I doubt that the ICO would hold an annual conference for data protection officers. Also the term is not, as you again state, a recent invention. Check how long these conferences have been going for.

3/ Did I not also say that SAGA had given full info on who to send the SAR to? That person being their data protection officer who is obviously the employee who deals with these requests!

4/ I have never had the need to send a SAR or deal with one but that does not preclude me from being privy to relevant info on the subject, which is there for all to see if they so wish.

5/ Although the normal fee chargeable to obtain SAR is £10 it is not, as you state, a case that a fee of £10 should always accompany the request since not all organisations charge it. SAGA did inform the OP of the £10 fee which they charge.

You appear to be very selective on which points you "answer" and if you were to read posts correctly then you might not post in quite the same way. It is not a question of being pedantic but just that you state things as being FACT when it is obviously NOT FACT.

Lexmanic · August 3, 2013

The fee SHOULD always accompany each SAR because it it it doesn't the organisation (as many have in the past) will use the none payment as an excuse to do nothing AND if they don't charge they can always return the cheque

Lexmanic · August 3, 2013

Also the bulletins my BH receives most weeks from the ICO AND another regulator always refer to Data Controllers The term 'protection' was invented for public consumption. The only data they tend to protect is their firms

bigegg · August 3, 2013

Regardless of what the person is who you ask for your data, it won't help, and will be a waste of money.

The statistics behind a quote are NOT your personal data - they WILL NOT be given in a SAR

The ONLY way to make a complaint to the insurance ombudsman stick, is to get two quotes for a car - one from the old postcode, one from the new postcode - and prove that the insurance increase is disproportionate to what it would have been to a new customer, and you are therefore being penalised (charged a "penalty", which is unlawful under English law) for changing address.

Without such evidence, the OP is wasting his time, energy, and money

Disclaimer: In my own opinion - I AM NOT A LAWYER (yet)!

dave1 · August 3, 2013

Also the bulletins my BH receives most weeks from the ICO AND another regulator always refer to Data Controllers The term 'protection' was invented for public consumption. The only data they tend to protect is their firms

"Invented for public consumption"......are we not the public? Are these Data Protection Officers not also the public? Whatever the terminology in your bulletins the FACT remains that the ICO deem them to be Data Protection Officers and hold annual conferences for them. Since they are a regulatory body (which I assume you are not) then I think that they carry more weight than you with regards to what these people are called.

You are confusing the role of people dealing with data (controllers/processors) with the person tasked with, amongst other things, dealing with SAR and safeguarding information held by the organisation which employs them.

I am amazed that someone with your vast knowledge would think that the SAR response would include anything other than details they hold of the person. It will certainly not include any of their business criteria because that is not something which they need to include. Whilst your postcode is part of that data, the reason that the postcode is perceived to be a higher risk is not part of your data.

dave1 · August 3, 2013

Regardless of what the person is who you ask for your data, it won't help, and will be a waste of money.

The statistics behind a quote are NOT your personal data - they WILL NOT be given in a SAR

The ONLY way to make a complaint to the insurance ombudsman stick, is to get two quotes for a car - one from the old postcode, one from the new postcode - and prove that the insurance increase is disproportionate to what it would have been to a new customer, and you are therefore being penalised (charged a "penalty", which is unlawful under English law) for changing address.

Without such evidence, the OP is wasting his time, energy, and money

Disclaimer: In my own opinion - I AM NOT A LAWYER (yet)!

Well said, you posted whilst I was typing the above reply and you seem totally correct. I am not a lawyer either, just trying to advise a fellow club member.

Malc · August 3, 2013

Hey guys, thanks for all your input and cerebral energies here, it's very much appreciated, thank you.

Do any of you know if there is a Govt or whatever investigation going on right now into Insurance car / other premium rip-offs or howsoever it's being termed ?

I seem to recall reading something of this but maybe not, I'm not sure.

On Friday I hosted a business breakfast for one of our local MPs ( I'm chair of a local branch of a national business organisation ) and just thought that if there is some sort of Enquiry on-going I might just reflect the story to him to see if there's any interest to make this a cause celebre or whatever, at least some real life ammo for them to go forward with maybe.

Thoughts guys ???

Thanks.

Malc

Lexmanic · August 5, 2013

Regardless of what the person is who you ask for your data, it won't help, and will be a waste of money.

The statistics behind a quote are NOT your personal data - they WILL NOT be given in a SAR

The ONLY way to make a complaint to the insurance ombudsman stick, is to get two quotes for a car - one from the old postcode, one from the new postcode - and prove that the insurance increase is disproportionate to what it would have been to a new customer, and you are therefore being penalised (charged a "penalty", which is unlawful under English law) for changing address.

Without such evidence, the OP is wasting his time, energy, and money

Disclaimer: In my own opinion - I AM NOT A LAWYER (yet)!

If he's to be successful later he has to show that he's taken every reasonable step to obtain the data that has caused his premium to increase. Also that data that has caused his premium to increase IS his data. Anyway I'm not going to argue till the cows come home. I've dealt with abuses of the DPA by firms since its inception & for them to suggest its a commercial secret is a nonsense, it isn't, its just another scheme/scam to increase profit AND thats why they refuse to justify it

Lexmanic · August 5, 2013

Also the bulletins my BH receives most weeks from the ICO AND another regulator always refer to Data Controllers The term 'protection' was invented for public consumption. The only data they tend to protect is their firms

"Invented for public consumption"......are we not the public? Are these Data Protection Officers not also the public? Whatever the terminology in your bulletins the FACT remains that the ICO deem them to be Data Protection Officers and hold annual conferences for them. Since they are a regulatory body (which I assume you are not) then I think that they carry more weight than you with regards to what these people are called.

You are confusing the role of people dealing with data (controllers/processors) with the person tasked with, amongst other things, dealing with SAR and safeguarding information held by the organisation which employs them.

I am amazed that someone with your vast knowledge would think that the SAR response would include anything other than details they hold of the person. It will certainly not include any of their business criteria because that is not something which they need to include. Whilst your postcode is part of that data, the reason that the postcode is perceived to be a higher risk is not part of your data.

Although like you they'll deny it they DO need to to include it if it has a direct effect on the data subject

Malc · August 7, 2013

Lexmanic hi, looking forward to your next advices please.

Thanks.

Malc

dave1 · August 7, 2013

Also the bulletins my BH receives most weeks from the ICO AND another regulator always refer to Data Controllers The term 'protection' was invented for public consumption. The only data they tend to protect is their firms

"Invented for public consumption"......are we not the public? Are these Data Protection Officers not also the public? Whatever the terminology in your bulletins the FACT remains that the ICO deem them to be Data Protection Officers and hold annual conferences for them. Since they are a regulatory body (which I assume you are not) then I think that they carry more weight than you with regards to what these people are called.

You are confusing the role of people dealing with data (controllers/processors) with the person tasked with, amongst other things, dealing with SAR and safeguarding information held by the organisation which employs them.

I am amazed that someone with your vast knowledge would think that the SAR response would include anything other than details they hold of the person. It will certainly not include any of their business criteria because that is not something which they need to include. Whilst your postcode is part of that data, the reason that the postcode is perceived to be a higher risk is not part of your data.

Although like you they'll deny it they DO need to to include it if it has a direct effect on the data subject

Yet again Jon you are very selective on which aspects of posts that you respond to. You certainly appear to know more than the regulating authorities. I have actually noticed how "knowledgeable" you are on various other threads. Pointless to respond to any more of your posts since it appears to be inconceivable that you could be wrong about anything.

dave1 · August 7, 2013

Lexmanic hi, looking forward to your next advices please.

Thanks.

Malc

If you don't get the info you require when you submit your SAR then I suggest that you contact the ICO for advice rather than taking notice of some of the advice offered here, although I feel sure that if even the ICO agree with SAGA about what they need to reveal to you Jon will still insist that you are entitled to it.

Lexmanic · August 7, 2013

Lexmanic hi, looking forward to your next advices please.

Thanks.

Malc

If you don't get the info you require when you submit your SAR then I suggest that you contact the ICO for advice rather than taking notice of some of the advice offered here, although I feel sure that if even the ICO agree with SAGA about what they need to reveal to you Jon will still insist that you are entitled to it.

I would remind you that the ICO are NOT the last word on what data should or should not be disclosed. There are many instances where the ICO have been overuled. Also the ICO staff are not legally qualified which is why they sometimes get it wrong. They have been given certain powers to fine & sanction firms BUT all of these fines etc can & are frequently challenged in the courts

Lexmanic · August 7, 2013

Lexmanic hi, looking forward to your next advices please.

Thanks.

Malc

If you don't get the info you require when you submit your SAR then I suggest that you contact the ICO for advice rather than taking notice of some of the advice offered here, although I feel sure that if even the ICO agree with SAGA about what they need to reveal to you Jon will still insist that you are entitled to it.

Yes I will if that data has a direct or indirect effect on the increased premiums

Lexmanic · August 7, 2013

Malc some on here seem determined to discourage you from finding out why your premium has increased for no good reason. I will PM you

Malc · August 14, 2013

Hi Lexmanic .... that further note ???

Malc

Lexmanic · August 14, 2013

Will you be at the Gaydon meet?

Malc · August 15, 2013

I'm afraid I shan't be able to join you and the others there, sorry, it would be good I know.

Malc

Lexmanic · August 18, 2013

I have PM'd you with relevent advice. Confirm you have it & if any questions contact me

bigegg · August 18, 2013

it's VERY unwise to take, or give, (para)legal advice via PM.

At least if the advice is in the open, it can be peer-reviewed, and hopefully you can avoid making a silly, or potentially expensive, error based on what may be incorrect advice.

Lexmanic · August 18, 2013

it's VERY unwise to take, or give, (para)legal advice via PM.

At least if the advice is in the open, it can be peer-reviewed, and hopefully you can avoid making a silly, or potentially expensive, error based on what may be incorrect advice.

Sorry but due to previous remarks on this thread I have no intention of arguing AGAIN with barrack room lawyers

also malc know where the advice came from and how it was prepared

Also your remark 'peer reviewed' by a car club! don't make me laugh

bigegg · August 18, 2013

The above was as much for your protection as Malc's.

but, whatever...<shrugs>

Lexmanic · August 18, 2013

Nonsense There are so many so called 'experts' when it come to giving legal advice Incidentally Gregg are you a qualified lawyer & if so whats your specialty?