Bad Brake Vibration

Bassman · May 9, 2013

Hi folks,

Yesterday on a run out to Whitby over the moors and pressing on a bit..my brakes started to vibrate.

At first just a little but as time went on got so bad that i actually stopped and checked my wheelnuts as i thought i had a wheel coming loose. Particularly bad if going round a sharp r/h turn on the moors when braking a bit. a real judder.

Mainly the front left wheel, and when i checked the nuts, there was also a burning smell from the wheel.

After the car was parked for a few hours in Whitby, i drove it back nornally, and the brakes were ok, still a little virbration but could hardly feel it.

Presumably this means that i have a warped disc, that gets worse as the brakes get hotter?

is there any other reason this could happen?

Apart from that the car performed superbly, as they do.

thanks folks,

Keith

GEN · May 9, 2013

When I had vibrations associated with braking the car needed new discs and brake pads. It is not possible to visually check this without taking the wheels off and the brake warning light did not come on and the wire sensor/s were still intact.

lordturns · May 9, 2013

Hi Keith,

This happened on my BMW - if you are experiencing a judder through the steering wheel on braking, then it will definitely be your discs and pads. If there is not much left on the pads and you can smell burning as you say, then you are grinding metal. The evidence was clear to see on my BM - and after a few days of use I could see that there was a heavier than normal deposit of brake dust on one of the wheels compared to the others. After a journey of around 20 miles or so, I could smell the burning too and even feel the heat from the wheel.

I had exactly the same as you - vibration got worse as the brakes heated up and then when I left the car , they cooled down sufficiently to the point where the judder was slight but still obvious. My brake sensor light on the dash was not illuminated. As Gen says, the only way to check is by taking off your wheels and having a look at the condition of your pads/discs.

Jeremy

Bluesman · May 9, 2013

There is a thread on here about brake vibration but the rpoblem turns out to be dirty pads and discs. Quite a common problem apparantly.

If I get time I will see if I can find it. mike

The-Acre · May 9, 2013

Seized caliper could also be the problem, or partially seized.

ManicMark · May 9, 2013

Partially seized calliper would be my first point of call 1 piston out of the 4 probably. as the calliper gets warmer the piston seizes.

Bassman · May 9, 2013

Thanks for the help folks. Am going to take the car to the local toyota dealer and see if they can check the disk runout and maybe strip and clean them. I know the front pads are good and have plenty of life left in them.

Wll let you. Know how I get on.

Cheers

Keith

ipwn · May 10, 2013

If they're going as far as cleaning then just replace the front discs IMO.

Also far cheaper at an independant mechanic and some brembo discs.

What it would cost to clean etc and Toyota, you could replace them at an indy.

GEN · May 10, 2013

The last (and I do mean last) time I had my breaks done at an Indy garage(recommended Japanese car specialist)they barely lasted a year and squealed all the way. Fortunately I did not have any emergency to really put them to the test. Lexus since: quiet, smooth, confidence inspiring and lasted much longer.

Malc · May 10, 2013

My independent sole trader has always provided me with " quiet, smooth, confidence inspiring " brakes on my LSs and at a fraction of the main dealer cost too.

Anyone near Margate in Kent, you can have his name for the future !

Malc

GEN · May 11, 2013

Congratulations! Unfortunately Kent is a bit far for me so I'll have to stick with what I have since I don't wish to experiment with the brakes, timing belt, etc.

Bassman · May 11, 2013

If they're going as far as cleaning then just replace the front discs IMO.

Also far cheaper at an independant mechanic and some brembo discs.

What it would cost to clean etc and Toyota, you could replace them at an indy.

The problem with that is that if it is the calipers and not the disks, i would end up replacing everything for a simple clean up job..

MNP · May 11, 2013

I agree with Keith. When my Land Cruiser developed a bad vibration on braking there was evidence in the lack of brake dust on one side. The caliper had seized, the garage couldn't get another so sent it off for rebuild. Sadly the disc had warped due to uneven heating so the old girl needed front discs too.

If you are lucky you may just need a rebuild/new seals, I'm sure Toyota will just replace everything. Try a trusted garage.

Good luck.

Mark.

mixls400 · May 12, 2013

hi there, you mentioned about a burning smell coming from your brakes, this means usually that the brakes are binding which would suggest the fault lies with your callipers as previously mentioned.

bazgtr · May 13, 2013

Funny thing I just replaced wheel bearing in the hub and since I put it all back together I also have vibration in breaking through the wheel.

I have to strip it down this week and have a look what I did wrong if anything. I know it's not my discs as had no problems before wheel bearing change.

I will be checking if I've done the caliper bolts up tight enough which may have pinched lose since refitting.

Let me know if you find the problem and also did you have any work done in your car recently on that side?

Baz.

plastic orange · May 14, 2013

My brake shudder has gradually returned 20,000 miles after fitting new discs and pads (Blueprint parts). It only happens on light braking though, so could possibly just be pad material on discs. It really does spoil the enjoyment of driving the car though.

Pete

mixls400 · May 14, 2013

you may have some dirt behind the disc where it seats on the hub causing it to run out of true ??

plastic orange · May 14, 2013

It was all cleaned prior to disc fitment, but I'll strip the lot down and see whats what. Pads aren't even half worn yet, but I may replace them with Ferodo parts to see if it helps.

Pete

cleverdick · May 14, 2013

Hi folks,

Yesterday on a run out to Whitby over the moors and pressing on a bit..my brakes started to vibrate.

At first just a little but as time went on got so bad that i actually stopped and checked my wheelnuts as i thought i had a wheel coming loose. Particularly bad if going round a sharp r/h turn on the moors when braking a bit. a real judder.

Mainly the front left wheel, and when i checked the nuts, there was also a burning smell from the wheel.

After the car was parked for a few hours in Whitby, i drove it back nornally, and the brakes were ok, still a little virbration but could hardly feel it.

Presumably this means that i have a warped disc, that gets worse as the brakes get hotter?

is there any other reason this could happen?

Apart from that the car performed superbly, as they do.

thanks folks,

Keith

By the sound of it you definitely have a sticky caliper which is causing the disc to heat up and deform. Fortunately it could just be the slide pins which should be lubricated only with Toyota "Lithium Soap Base Grease". (I got some from the dealer, it wasn't too expensive.)

If your discs not too worn and the problem persists, it might be worth trying to track down a garage with a Pro-Cut lathe which machines the discs on the hub. I have an independent Rolls-Royce mechanic very near me with one, and it did work wonders on my old Granada.

However, I've since lost confidence in him - I took my LS there with a tracking misalignment issue which I eventually discovered to be due to a mis-fitted lower control arm bush. (Not only did he totally fail to spot the problem, he measured the wheelbase on each side by measuring not from hub centre to centre, but wheelnut to wheelnut - which of course could have been in any position! So I've not been there again, needless to say.)

brendangeorge · May 15, 2013

Hi

I had this problem on my 430 - it seemed to eat the damn front disks.
The symptoms started at around 25K and I tried several different makes of disk
- the Lexus OEM where the worst. Fair play I did a lot of "take no prisoners" motor way driving.

I made sure the fitters cleaned everything because as was pointed out already you only need a small amount of
run out (4 thou) and a disk will warp. I eventually found EBC disks and
green stuff pads were great and have had no more probs. I had to replace
all 4 callipers at 200K miles because the pistons would either not retact or
where jammed - even this did not kill my front disks although they will need
replacing when I change the pads.

I used to have the disks skimmed as has been suggested but this was only
ever a short term fix - the good news was even with warped disk and or stuck
pistons the car always stopped very well.

Good luck

Bren

Bassman · May 15, 2013

Took the car to the Toyota dealership in doncaster today, and they checked the brakes and told me that the front left hand disk is definitely warped. they said that as i use the brakes more and more if I am pressing on a tad, then the warp will just get worse, until they cool down again.

They said I need new disks, so I am going to change them for original equipment disks instead of the alternatives they gave me that were a bit cheaper. Also going to change the pads as well. They looked at the calipers and said that they look ok, not too dirty and no sign of a sticking piston.

Will let you know how the brakes are after that, and hopefully then it will be all ok..if not, then the Toyota dealers will have some explaining to do!...

Thanks for all the advice and help folks.

Cheers

Kith

Bassman · May 23, 2013

Just to let you know that I have had the front discs and pads done now..used genuine lexus parts and now the brakes are superb. The vibration has completely gone, and even the pedal feels better.

Hopefully this will not come back again and I can now enjoy the car without worrying about the next bill that's on its way!

Bluesman · May 23, 2013

Just to let you know that I have had the front discs and pads done now..used genuine lexus parts and now the brakes are superb. The vibration has completely gone, and even the pedal feels better.

Hopefully this will not come back again and I can now enjoy the car without worrying about the next bill that's on its way!

Brilliant, back to happy motoring. Mike

The-Acre · May 23, 2013

Just to let you know that I have had the front discs and pads done now..used genuine lexus parts and now the brakes are superb. The vibration has completely gone, and even the pedal feels better.

Hopefully this will not come back again and I can now enjoy the car without worrying about the next bill that's on its way!

Can I ask how much you paid for the parts?

Phil