Newb Needs Your Advice On Is220D

[m_sbutt]

Hi,

I am looking to buy a used lexus is220D between 50,000 to 80,000 mileage in a few months, maybe a SE-L, as i want leather seats, and sat nav screen and the speakers would be nice

This is the 2nd forum i joined, 1st was a civic forum as i had my eyes on a diesiel civic, I got abit put off with the civic 2.2 ctdi has forum members was complaining sooooo much about it (Clutch going,Fly wheel,squeeky noises and many more to list)

Now i want a used lexus is220D and ive been reading alot of bad comments on the diesiel. (Head gasket failure, Poor MPG etc)

Q 1.) Could i just assume that their unlucky?? and 95% IS220D are fine with no problems. And it also came to my mind people that sign up to forums and generally here to complain/solve problems about their car. would you agree with me???

Q.2) Does all Lexus Is200D have the smart key where you just walk up to the car and open the door??? or a certain grade/trim

Q.3) say in the morning the outside temperture is 5-8 C, how long do you keep your car running to warm it up?? say 5mins running, 5mins slow driving would the heaters blow warm air???

Q.4) Generally is the IS220D a smooth comfortable/quiet ride on the road

I would really really really appreciate it if many forum members could reply to this post, also peope that actually own a lexus is220.

Thank you so much and have a happy new year

Regards,

Mo

[colbecoz]

1) it's true that pre 2007 had their fare share of problems, but most were dealt with by Lexus. Yes, people do come to complain, and it does get annoying when it seems to indicate that the 220D is a problem car. all I can say is that I've had mine 4 years now, and it's one of the best cars I've owned. It is no worse than any other, believe me. So put your mind at rest.

2) yes.

3) don't leave it on tick over to warm it up, that damages any engine. I find it takes about 10 mins normal driving to get fully warm.

4) you bet, but some say it sounds like a tractor outside. I have heard much worse!!!!

Hope this helps??

Col

[m_sbutt]

Yeah you certainly put my mind at rest, thank you. Hopefully more diesiel owners will leave their experience

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Hi there.

First of all Q1. No 95% of IS220d's are not fine. In fact it's prob the other way around! Lexus have extended their own warranty to 111k miles or 7 years for head gasket as they know it's a design fault of the car. There's also a reason Lexus don't offer a diesel in the range anymore.... Their rubbish at making them!

Read these threads and if you want more advice try and get in touch with member normski. He had a 220d and knows prett much everything about the car. He also offers good advice :)

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=79850&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=79158&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=80035&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=79907&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Sorry but the 220d is a problem car. The evidence is there for all to see. I'm glad you have a good 1 colbecoz :)

Doesn't change the fact that the head gasket in your car is a weak part! No amount of maintenance or good car keeping changes that. It's been good up to know but let me ask you this, would you be happy knowing that your head gasket was not covered by a free repair from Lexus?

My brother in laws 220d is coming up to the age limit where Lexus will fix it for free. He's had nothing but trouble with it, dashboard cracks, vibrating rear view mirror, poor mpg return, EGR problems etc... The only thing that hasn't gone wrong is the head gasket unbelievably. Guess what, he's selling it before he's out of the extended warranty! :(

[colbecoz]

Wondered how long it would take the gloom and Dom merchants to chip in. We do not all have bad experiences with the 220D and certainly not 95%. If it were that bad, Lexus would have to recall every one of them. So, you just make up your own mind my friend.

Col

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Sorry don't mean to be a doom and gloom merchant, just don't want anybody else to be as unhappy as my brother in law after buying his. He was sure he was buying trouble free motoring when purchasing a Lexus but the truth has been far from it. It's a good car when its running well, smooth, refined etc but there's always the niggling fact in the back of your mind that the HG is gonna go!

Ok so 95% is obviously an exaggeration, but it is a high percentage that go wrong! The fact remains that a petrol Lexus engine if maintained properly will run up to and past 250k. There's no way a 200d or 220d will get to that mileage without a couple of engine rebuilds however well you maintain it.

[Carl911]

I think it's certainly fair to say they have had there fair share of problems.

I have had mine for nearly two years and had no problems at all. My car did however have the engine recall work done prior to me buying it. The truth is that no modern diesel likes short journeys so if you do less thn 10k a year get the 250.

To put things into perspective I have owned two diesel BMW before the lexus. They suffered from the dreaded blocking EGR, filters that starve the turbo of oil leading to early failure as well as a few other engine problems like poor tickover, supension that wears out quicker than any other marque i have ever owned, all potentially expensive to fix.

The point being, Lexus have had there problems but most of which have been fixed under warranty but other car manufacturers have there own set of issues.

If you get a well serviced, and warranty updated car then it can be as reliable if not more so than any other on the road.

Carl

[colbecoz]

You are talking and making good sense Carl. I'm with you fully. I used to get panicky when I read some negative posts, but now, based on personal experience I feel comfortable in praising the 220D. I only do around 5k/ year, so maybe I should have got the 250, but, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I still love my car to bits. I feel so sorry for those who have bad experiences, but that just taints their viewif the 220D. I tend to be a bottle half full rather than a bottle half empty type of guy, so, maybe that helps a little when I reply to posts asking for advice. Good luck to all 220D owners.... Genuinely..!!

col

[m_sbutt]

thanks for your comments.

I just realised something, if you go on auto trader you dont see soooooooooo many used is220D or is250 up for sale compared to other cars so hopefully thats a good sign that people like to hang on to their lexus!!!!!!

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Ok so I'm sorry if I upset some 220d owners. That's the 220d guys and the CT200h guys that I've upset now!

I wasn't trying to hate on your car guys, I was honestly trying to help and warn of the problems that do arise with the 220d. Even the Lexus service manager said don't get a 220d to me when I asked his opinion. He said get a 250....He also said its the most common vehicle he gets in and pretty much always HG or EGR. And yes Lexus fix the problems under warranty which is great but that's gonna be of no comfort to you if it's -2'C, chucking it down with rain at 2am and your HG goes....

Oh and the reason not many Lexus on Autotrader etc is because your probably comparing that to the number of BMW's, Mercs etc on there of the same age. Lexus have never sold in high volume so there are less of them about.

But like I said, the car is a pleasure to drive if it's in good health. I've done about 2500- 3000 miles in my brother in laws as ive driven it a lot and I did 1000 miles overnight once on a drive to Germany last year.

I feel I should mention 6th gear as well. Bizarre ratios which renders 6th useless under 80mph. Great for the autobahn, not so great for driving legally in the UK.

[Silver Arrow]

I had an early one. It was BAD....

My advice is if you want a diesel, look elsewhere. Even if it's reliable, the 220d doesn't drive as well as the opposition (gear changes, flat spot, useless 6th gear, narrow power delivery, quite poor economy, no auto option).

Lexus make brilliant petrol auto's, that is what Lexus do best!

[Dromara1974]

Not everyone is a 'doom monger', if they have 'real issues' with their car, so just be pleased that you are in the minority as Chris' comments are fair and balanced from the knowledge I have gained in the last 2 months of ownership.

I am a positive chap, but I can only say that my own car is a bad one at the moment, which I was hoping would not materialise on account of it having a full service history(Mostly Lexus) and having only covered 38k in 4 years. However, this seems to be the route of the problem as low mileage and local driving does not suit the IS220d; more so than other diesels it would appear. It is partially true that other diesels suffer, but nowhere near as bad as the IS220d.

I have had BMWs for years and the suspension only wears at around 70/80k, and when the front wisbones/bushes/drop links are replaced they once again resume that taut, well-damped feeling. My 100k BMW feels tighter than my 40k Lexus - fact! The turbo problems on the BMWs are due to the air filter and turbo pre-filter getting clogged with muck, but this is avoidable if they are inspected/changed early.

A few more facts;

I have only visited Lexus Sheffield once and the service manager confirmed the issues and showed me the workheets for four engine rebuilds that they were doing!

This particular Toyota engine (apparently) has an inherent design fault concerning the piston rings and the pistons themselves(oh and the slipping head gasket that eventually scores the block!), which makes the engine produce more carbon/soot than it should (or more than the competitions' engines, if you like) and that in turn causes all the complicated valves sensors to malfunction. EGR valves do foul-up on other cars, but not as frequently! Toyota technicians have openly stated the engine problems are a design fault on many other forums - have a look if you like. The toyota vehicles with the same family of engines are getting rebuilt too on a frequent basis! The 180ps version is the worst offender, whereas the 1.4 engine is as good as you can get for diesel reliability, with virtually no issues!

My advice is to try the car and if it has good (well reasonable - they are never as good as most) economy and the engine feels powerful, in the way that a car with 175bhp should, then it is probably a good one. If it feels sluggish and only goes when you really prod the throttle, then you'll need to buy shares in BP and you may have problems along the way.

Cheers

David

[colbecoz]

Well David, I sympathise with your experience and that of you service tech's. I stick by my experience and still say, post 2006 the 220d improved. I too have an excellent Lexus master Tech and Service Manager who do not concur with all of your views. Still, it's horses for courses, and yes there are far too many "doom mongers" ready to trash the car. My granny used to say, if you ain't got anything good to say the just keep it to yourself.

Col

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

My granny used to say, if you ain't got anything good to say the just keep it to yourself.

Agreed, but not on car forums. The OP wanted to know about the 220d. I'm sure he wants to know the bad as well as good :)

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Thing is if the OP had said "I'm thinking about a 250 auto" then every response would have been positive and on the lines of "great car" and "can't go wrong"

The fact that the diesel creates such a debate should be cause for concern.

[Carl911]

Thing is if the OP had said "I'm thinking about a 250 auto" then every response would have been positive and on the lines of "great car" and "can't go wrong"

The fact that the diesel creates such a debate should be cause for concern.

Sadly, even this statement is not completely true.

There have been issues with the bomb proof petrol with excessive oil consumption. There is a lexis recall which entailed a similar piston ring and piston replacement to cure the problem.

It's fair to say that I have only read a few cases of this and mainly in the states but none the less did concern me when I first read it.

Carl

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

First I've heard of that and I'm a member of 3 Lexus forum's.

But yeah all cars have their faults, nobody makes a perfect, never go wrong car. It just seems the Lexus diesel is more prone to things going wrong than other Lexus models.

[Carl911]

First I've heard of that and I'm a member of 3 Lexus forum's.

But yeah all cars have their faults, nobody makes a perfect, never go wrong car. It just seems the Lexus diesel is more prone to things going wrong than other Lexus models.

Here's the link anyhow:-

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/is-second-generation/241954d1333575084-2008-is250-burning-oil-part-3-lexus-bulletin.pdf

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Thanks, that's sounds worrying but not many reports of that problem thankfully. :)

Anyway Mo, I hope you decide on the car you want and that some of the information on this forum has been helpful to you :)

[shazy]

had it 2 years done 30K miles, have had dash light up twice on both occasions cleaned the egr valve and was lucky that it cleared. also have intention of getting the dpf mapped out and that should put my mind at ease.

overall the car is a pleasure to drive but the MPG is crap im getting average of 31-33MPG i would expect at least 40. all problems aside this is ridiculous for a diesel car.

good car has its problems like all cars. Knowing what i know now what would i do...........if i was to buy a lexus again it would be the is250 and not the diesel.

[normski2]

I put up a fairly detailed response under the post "Looking to buy a is.....220d or a 250". What I said there would apply to your thought process.

I'd pretty much concur with what Colbecoz said too. My only major concern is this Head Gasket issue. Interestingly, my younger son was home at Xmas and I took the opportunity to take his 220d out for a spin. It went really well...really well. He was on 47mpg. Yes the gears were still a little notchy, it's not quiet at idle, but its going lovely. Up and running on a good road the diesel was barely audible. It was a pleasurable drive.

On return we took the centre dash out and removed a now redundant Nokia phone cradle. Fiddly little job...but all went well and no breakages. Having a I-pad on the dash with a few vids and instructions was a bonus and great assist.

[Dromara1974]

47 mpg - I wish!! Hang on.........my car is very quiet on the whole for a diesel, but when it has the 'POWER' it does seem noticeably more raucous, and it exibits a judder when setting off in1st gear when more torque is present.

I could live with some more noise, if I had urge instead of lethargy!!

That ring problem on various petrol cars is more common in the USA, as I understand that their fuel is of inferior quality. My wife's Mk5 Golf GTI was using a horrendous amount of oil prior to, and following, a major service at VW - it consumed about 2 litres in 2000 miles, which was very concerning. In fact, after the service it covered about 1200 miles and the oil pressure light came on - the oil didn't even register on the dipstick! It wasn't leaking, it wasn't (obviously) burning it and there was no oil in the coolant. Anyway, a few Uk cars were suffering the same problem with less than 50k on the clock, but a great deal more were suffering in the USA according to the their GTI club forum. I established from their forum that carbon build up caused the piston rings to stick in the piston on one or more of the cylinders. Incidentally, my wife's car had the syptoms described in the Lexus US bulletin. An VW techy in the US GTI forum suggested archoil and a few measured high rpm visits. I followed his advice and the mpg has improved, the power is back, the periodic missing episodes have stopped and the occassional reluctance to rev past 3000rpm has gone. More importantly, the oil consumption has stopped also! Pity the same method has failed with my Lexus thus far!!

If I remember correctly, the old super market fuel chestnut seemed to be the common denominator with the UK GTI cars, along with prolonged local driving at a sedate pace. I suppose it is very much..... "you get what you pay for!" and......"never buy a car that granny has used to pootle to the shops in".

I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but a service manager kindly showed me the Lexus recall guidance notes and the IS220d engines are only replaced when the oil consumption exceeds a certain rate - much like the US recall guide for the petrol engine.I believe this was a re-issue from Lexus, as different garages were applying different criteria and there was absolutely no consistency.