Winter Tyre Advise / Opinions

[matt-c]

Strange you'd even stop to read AA bumph, let alone quote it after saying how crap the AA are earlier on

[fil4362]

i said i had been involved in cases against the AA.

The case i mentioned with the fuel pump, the patrol man was an ex co worker of mine who we had to "let go" due to poor work standards. Which if the AA had checked his record before they employed him they would have know his record which included being sacked from next place of work for fraud so sacked forpoor workiign practice and fraud yet still gets a job from the AA. This is just one instance i have had with the AA.

i mearly emplied some of their "staff" where crap. I never mentioned there is one or 2 that i know are very good and go beyond whats expected to get the member back on the road.

Your opinion on winter tyes was backed up by you telling us you worked for the AA

Anyway i digress, at the end of the day, europes biggest motoring organisation agrees with my me. So it would appear my opinions carry more weight then my own boring ramblings which people cant be bothered to read.

Oh and I didnt just take the time to just read the bumph, i actualy took the time to look for it after all 23 yars in the job 2500 happy customers is no evidance at all that you dont need winter tyres as like i said ad the AA agree the cost out weighs the benifits.

[fil4362]

just to add as well, i just did a quick search on rospa,s website The Royal Society for the Provention of Accidents. Their search engine returns no results for "winter tyres" . I did only do a quick search but it would appear on the surface that they see no merit in winter tyres either. So the AA and Rospa agree with me and your insurancce company is likley to charge you more !!

Once again feel frree to spend moneey having them fitted.

[matt-c]

LOL, regardless of what your ex coworker was sacked for, it can't be written up for a future employer. Part of the rules and regs for references. It's even hard to get in if it was dismissal for something criminal.

And no, I didn't say that my opinion on winter tyres is backed up by the AA at all.

And a VERY big lol that you think the AA agrees with YOU! Haha, priceless! Oh and ROSPA too! My my, they do think a lot of you don't they!

I thank you for giving me permission to spend my money on them, but I'd have done it anyway, without your blessing.

[fil4362]

Yet again matt you fail to see the point. you we willing to tell us you work for europes biggest motoring organisation to prove your knowledge on the subject because other wise you would have just been another person who had read the advertising bumph and rushes out and bought them.

The AA is the organnisation every one turns to when the winter comes, hence the weather reports, joe soap from the AA saying "the weather will be bad so only make essencial journeys". The AA doesnt report on the news saying "the weather will be bad we recomend you rush out and spend 400 quid on tyres".

Rospa is the foremost organisation in the country when it comes to accident prevention hence the word "Royal" in the name , you know as in approved by the royal family. As i have said they dont even mention winter tyres anywhere on their website. You would think if there was any merit in winter tyres rospa of all people would be recomending them.

Insurance companies last year where refusing to insure people {according to your bosses) who used winter tyres afterall they are a modification from standard.

Once again the 3 biggest organisation that deal with motoring matters all share my views on winter tyres. I am sure they have all looked into thee pros and cons of winter tyres and decided not to bother , I am not aware of any major fleet company either ,including the AA that uses winter tyres, i am sure if there was any merit in them the Royal mail would use them for a start, remember all the late mail last year because of the bad weather, if winter tyres worked as everyone claims we would have all got a mail on tiime !

I havnt consulted with the AA or rospa or insurance companies on the matter of winter tyres so i withdraw my statement of "agreeing" with me, but as non of them recomend them they certainly share my views.

Its ok you can conceed defeat if you wish you cant really argue when the biggest motoring organisation in europe the biggest accident prevention organisation in the country and insurance companies and all the biggest fleet companies in the country who share my views on winter tyres. the cost out weighs the benifits and no one except people that sell them (excluding me) recomends them

[fil4362]

oops it would appear "which" the countries biggest consumer advice organisation also dont recomend them

http://conversation.which.co.uk/transport-travel/winter-tyres-snow-weather-cars-buy/

Oh and as an mot tester i also know Vosa dont recomen them either !

it would appear no one not even the experts recomend winter tyres

so sad !

[matt-c]

Yet again matt you fail to see the point. you we willing to tell us you work for europes biggest motoring organisation to prove your knowledge on the subject because other wise you would have just been another person who had read the advertising bumph and rushes out and bought them.

What I actually said was (and please, feel free to check my post)

As a professional driver, I get to see all weathers on a constant basis, and working for the largest motoring organisation in Europe, I come across all types

No where at all does it say in there "I'm telling you I work for the AA to prove my knowledge on tyres". Nor does it say "my opinion on winter tyres is backed up by the AA, because I work for the AA"

I really didn't think you were that daft you actually can't read what I wrote? Why are you quite clearly fabricating what I've said?

Its ok you can conceed defeat if you wish you cant really argue when the biggest motoring organisation in europe the biggest accident prevention organisation in the country and insurance companies and all the biggest fleet companies in the country who share my views on winter tyres. the cost out weighs the benifits and no one except people that sell them (excluding me) recomends them

What is it you think I should admit defeat on? That I think winter tyres are a good idea, with the heavier and colder winters we are getting year on year? Why should I "admit defeat" on that? It's my opinion. How can someone even admit "defeat" on an opinion?!?! As I've already said in this thread, everyone is entitled to an opinion and, be definition, an opinion cannot be wrong - so how could I possibly admit defeat on my own opinion?

And where am I arguing with any big motoring organisations? Please quote me where I've said that any of them are wrong. At no point have I said everyone else is wrong, and only I am right. But what I have said is I have spoken to a lot of people regarding snow, tyres, types of cars (ie, RWD, FWD, 4WD), etc etc, and the vast majority I've spoken to recommend going for a winter tyre on a vehicle like ours, when it snows and is icy. And these are people that drive cars like ours, and have actually used both summer and winter tyres, in winter. So I'm basing my opinion on that. If you want to base yours on reading bumph, that's your call (and you can only be basing your opinions on reading bumph, because you've already stated you have never used winter tyres, so you have no first hand experience of them at all, and thus you cannot make a personally educated and informed opinion on them). So who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

Why are you so concerned with the cost? I mean, it's my money, what interest do you have in what I spend my money on or how much of it I spend?

And sorry, no. I don't think ROSPA, the AA and the insurance companies "share your views". You may agree with theirs, but I highly doubt - in fact I'd go so far to say it's 100% untrue - that they have looked for someone to share a view with, and chosen you. Sorry, who are you again?

oops it would appear "which" the countries biggest consumer advice organisation also dont recomend them

http://conversation....ather-cars-buy/

Oh and as an mot tester i also know Vosa dont recomen them either !

it would appear no one not even the experts recomend winter tyres

so sad !

What's sad? It's sad you're again making your assumptions and opinions on more press bumph, rather than actually forming an educated and informed opinion through trying them yourself? Oh no, of course - you don't do that.

(ps, as an MoT tester, you should be fully aware that VOSA are the organisation, brought in by the merger of previous departments, that oversee the policies and proceedures for vehicle safety and roadworthiness, including MoT guidelines and protocols. They don't make recommendations as to what types of tyres the motorist should or shouldn't use; other than what types of tyres are legal to use on the road, and how much tread they should have on those tyres to remain legal. You must be confusing them with Which magazine. But if you know differently, I'd love to see the press release where VOSA suggest against using winter tyres)

[TigerFish]

I can't see what ******* Phil is writing anymore other than what has just been quoted. However, if he actually read that article from "which?", it actually tells you the benefits of winter tyres in cold/adverse conditions, and the fact the up front costs are not as bad as they sound. His (the journalist) opinion was that he wasn't convinced town and city folk needed them, but still mentioned it may help them in snow/icy conditions.

The upshot is, regardless of what you or anyone else says, my car was stranded at the bottom of a steep hill down a crappy side street for weeks, twice. Since using winter tyres, I haven't had any problems at all. So, In my experience, they helped no end. I am more than capable of driving, but if winter tyres are proven to grip better in the colder weather, then that is a good thing.

[LexIS200Sport]

Well said, Tigerfish. If I may add, Tony Bones himself recommends winter tyres for our cars. Head over to the WIM forums if you don't believe me.

Mods, can I suggest that this thread is locked? It appears to have been blown way out of proportion. I am sure the original poster has got the answer that he needs :)

[fil4362]

The journalist wasnt convinced town and city folk need them ?? so thats not recomeneding them is it ???? Let me say it again town and city folk dont need them !!!! thats a which journalist saying that not me. Infact after hours of reasurce i cannot find one person independant of the tyre trade who does say yes go out and buy winter tyres you really need them.

All i have ever said is that you dont need them you can manage perfectly well without them. If people feel the need to make your life "better" in some way by buying them feel free but everyone in the know says you dont need them or doesnt say" yes go out and buy them" so i wont be buying them. If an expert opinon as in the journalist for which magazine is wrong with his statement of "i am not convinced town and city drivers need them but MAY thats May help them then thats a good enough reason for me to keep my money in my pocket.

Has anyone bothered to worry about the implications of the people behind you in the snow ?? if your stopping super quickly in your winter tyres what about he poor bloke behind you who cant actually afford to buy them and cant stop as quickly as your newly improved car does. And please dont say "thats his fault they ran into the back of me " Infact please feel free to run into the back of me in the winter see if your insurance covers your modified cars. If non of you lot believe the "experts" from the AA or rospa who see no need to use them i would love you to justify it to you insurance companies!!

[fil4362]

To be honest if the people on the website running it or supporting it ignore the opinions of experts and top motoring journalsit then this website isnt worth a dime.

no one outside of tyre sellers and manufacturers recomend we all go out and buy winter tyres. Is this site sponsered by michelin or something cause i just dont get it.

Theres some poor sods out there now reading this thread thinking is damed important they rush out and buy up a spare set of wheels and tyres before they get stuck in the snow all winter, I have pointed out that this really isnt the case and my opinion and has been battered poked and laughed at, when in truth i cannot find one single person who has given his expert opinion that winter tyres for us normal people that live in towns and cities in the normal world actually need winter tyres.

[matt-c]

The journalist wasnt convinced town and city folk need them ?? so thats not recomeneding them is it ???? Let me say it again town and city folk dont need them !!!! thats a which journalist saying that not me. Infact after hours of reasurce i cannot find one person independant of the tyre trade who does say yes go out and buy winter tyres you really need them.

Nor is it not recommending them. Also, please can you tell me how you know where I live?

Has anyone bothered to worry about the implications of the people behind you in the snow ?? if your stopping super quickly in your winter tyres what about he poor bloke behind you who cant actually afford to buy them and cant stop as quickly as your newly improved car does

Hang on, you say winter tyres aren't any good, and don't improve anything - how can the car be improved and have much better, and shorter, braking distances with these placebo tyres?

And please dont say "thats his fault they ran into the back of me " Infact please feel free to run into the back of me in the winter see if your insurance covers your modified cars. If non of you lot believe the "experts" from the AA or rospa who see no need to use them i would love you to justify it to you insurance companies!!

You mean, like your modified car?

To be honest if the people on the website running it or supporting it ignore the opinions of experts and top motoring journalsit then this website isnt worth a dime.

no one outside of tyre sellers and manufacturers recomend we all go out and buy winter tyres. Is this site sponsered by michelin or something cause i just dont get it.

What don't you get? That no one cares for your flippant, self obsessed attitude, and isn't interested in hearing your "expert opinion", even though you've never actually used winter tyres before, and therefore couldn't possibly have an expert opinion? What don't you understand about that?

Theres some poor sods out there now reading this thread thinking is damed important they rush out and buy up a spare set of wheels and tyres before they get stuck in the snow all winter, I have pointed out that this really isnt the case and my opinion and has been battered poked and laughed at

See above as to why

i cannot find one single person who has given his expert opinion that winter tyres for us normal people that live in towns and cities in the normal world actually need winter tyres.

Really? There's several on this thread alone. Try reading something other than bumph, that you were so quick to dismiss and ridicule others for buying into earlier on in this thread.

Face it fil, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about, and as such has been proven many times in this thread. You've tripped over yourself to contradict yourself and make yourself look like a fool, and it's painfully clear you are just trying to get a reaction, regardless of making yourself look foolish. Good luck to you, lets hope there isn't too much snow where you live, eh? ;)

[TigerFish]

Lol.... I don't claim to be an expert, but I am a town person, and have been stranded in the town. Since I got winter tyres, l haven't even come close.

Pity there isn't a feature to ignore quoted text from Phils posts as well <sigh>

[matt-c]

^ Sorry about that! :D

[TigerFish]

^ Sorry about that! :D

[fil4362]

Ok i have taken a week of to reasearch this post. so here goes.

Firstly i have have worked as an mot tester motor mechanic including tyre fitter for 23 years. So in any stretch of the imagination this would be considered both experianced and qualified in the matter. I do know what these tyres are claimed to do i have seen vidoes of vehicles in extream conditions stopping quicker with them on.

Anyway hers some more "bumph" for you

The two biggest fleet companies in the country ,the Royal mail and Allied textile suplies neither use winter tyres infact i couldnt find one single fleet company that did use them.

I have been in contact with 4 main dealers in the north west this week. Fiat, Renault, Ford and of course Lexus. The service department of non of these companies is trying to sell or sugest you should buy winter tyres at this tiime of year not even Lexus are suggesting winter tyres.

I have contacted the 3 biggest tyre suppliers in the north west this week and i mean suppliers to the trade. Last year non of them even stocked winter tyres, this year, contrary to my belief they are doing so. Suprising to me they are selling about one in twenty.

These tyres are being stocked and supplied to the trade as there has been a demand as people, and i quote " jump on the band wagon". One supplier even admitted they see no merit in them as the weather just isnt cold enough for long enough but if people want them they will sell them after all its about profit. So you can get them this year which actually suprised me.

As mentioned before non of the major motoring organisations are recomending you buy them, the AA themselves dont use them on their vehicles neither does the rac or green flag. Non of the emergency services use them either.

Rospa havnt even bothered to publish a report on them and they are the foremost experts on accident prevention.

Insurance companies last year wanted a premium if you used them, if they insured you at all.

I have if people require them pictures of the "new style" tyre information charts that are now legally required on all tyres. I have one interesting photo of a standard tyre that has a c rating for water dispersal, its a winter tyre, i have another picture of a standard tyre that also has a c rating.

These winter tyres work better at temps less than 7 degrees firstly i cant find any one quoting better than what ? the bumph sales info just says better. These tyres by most manufacturers are recomended to be fitted from october to april, incase anyone hasnt noticed yet its the middle of november and the temp hasnt been below 7 yet, not in my area anyway, so some ones using tyres they dont need to yet.

If you do the maths on the matter 4 tyres + 4 wheels 6 -7 hundred quid ??

Lets over estemate for a while and say 2 weeks deep snow everyone stuck. 2 weeks you cant make it to work winter tyres get you there great i loose 2 weeks pay you dont my fault i should have bought winter tyres. But when you get to work you cant do anything because all the logists companies who supply your companies dont use winter tyres so you cant do anything in work anyway. !!!

This is my last post on this subject because no one seems to understand my point which is for the few days a year when you actually need a bit more traction that these winter tyres may actually give you doesnt cover the cost in my eyes which is why even though i could make money from selling them i dont recomened them as,although i do see the benifits i dont think the weather is bad enough for long enough to warrent the cost of them. Unfortunatly 8/9 people on here saying they are great because they have used them and didnt get stuck isnt goign to sway me in light of the fact no comercial organisation using the roads which adds up to millions of vehicles uses them 8/9 people rating them or millions not bothering and managing without them.

[matt-c]

The fact you spent a week "researching" just proves you want an argument for the sake of it, so in summary;

You have never used winter tyres = you are not qualified. Regardless of years as an mot tester. I've eaten food my whole life, but I've never eaten cauliflower. So I'm not qualified to say cauliflower is rubbish.

The rest of your post is all pointless drivel. Make friends with Noby76 - you two would get on like a house on fire - trading bumph stats day in day out.

To address some other pointless points;

- It is November and still mild. Hence why mine aren't on my car yet

- Why are you still concerned with how much money I spend and what I spend it on?

- If you don't want to spend your money on them that's fine. No one is telling you to.

Lets see if you stick to your own claim of that being your last post on the subject. I'd bet you can't...

[fil4362]

No matt you see the evidance i have provided after research is purely to enforce my point that no one that knows anything about motoring uses winter tyres. The biggest companies in the country that rely on getting about in the winter, including your employers, dont use them. The experts on all matters of accident provention havnt bothered to research them.

Have you for one second thought, that despite all the evidance provided that millions of vehicles manage just fine without them and your ignoring the actual tyre manufacturers recomendations of when to use them, and with only a short experiance of using them its probably your self importance thats continuing the arguement.

Only a blind man ignores the evidance. Personally as i have mentioned before i dont care what you spend your money on but as the o.p was asking about the use of them it my recomendation with evidance i may add, that hes doesnt need to spend his money as no one else uses them save a few people i have found on here. You choose to call my post drivel i choose to call it evidance. I am pretty certain that after 23 years in the trade i do know what i am talking about or i would have been out of work by now where as one year or driving with winter tyres on certainly doesnt qualify you as an expert. You work for the AA, your own organisation doesnt use them !!!!! doesnt that say anything to you

[matt-c]

Looks like I won that bet then...

[noby76]

The rest of your post is all pointless drivel. Make friends with Noby76 - you two would get on like a house on fire - trading bumph stats day in day out.

I fail to understand why my name is being mentioned here when I haven’t contributed a single letter to this thread. Matt have you noticed ever since you joined this forum just 3 months ago you have picked little fights with 3 members including my self? You have picked unnecessary arguments with

zimnismoboy34 on this thread

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=79007&hl=

had unnecessary fights with me on most threads and now with fil4362 on this thread. can you not see a pattern here?? but what you fail to realize is we are all different and have our individual points of view so don’t expect what ever words you post on here to be agreed by everyone and I don’t expect the same as well I take from what I think might benefit me from posts and ignore the rest you might have one or two ideas but that does not make you a guru on everything. Like I said no need to pick fights with people if they do not agree with you. just my 2 cents

[matt-c]

LOL @ "fights" on the internet! You do make me chuckle, thank you! :)

As for "picking fights" with three people - yes I can see a pattern. All three display a severe level of foolishness.

And I've never even hinted at being a guru on everything. Not in the slightest (or actually on anything - I wouldn't hold myself in such pretentious high esteem). If that's what you take from reading my posts, then more fool you. Again.

[noby76]

care to give an example of where i might have displayed a level of foolishness?? in fact i dont want to hijack this thread so we can start a new one to have that discussion if you like

[matt-c]

One simple example is you thinking you have a supercharger

[noby76]

One simple example is you thinking you have a supercharger

haha you make me laugh ..still dont beleive?? bring me any Supercharged car from any corner of this world making 211 bhp, weighing in at 1500KG with an auto box. and I will show you i my IS300 can suck in as much air and compress in as much air as the supercharger around a race track. go figure

[matt-c]

^ Point proven