Winter Tyre Advise / Opinions

[micker35]

Hi Folks,

Well, I've had my IS300 for around about 18 months and, except for visiting the petrol station a little too often, I'd say it's been a pretty cheap car to run. The only thing that's gone wrong with it is the CD player and we all know that this is one of the few regular faults on this car.

Anyway, although last winter was not a bad one (at least not where I live), on the few days when the roads were icy / snowy my car was all but paralysed (and that was with 100Kg of grit in the back). If we had had a winter like the one before I would have been well and truly stuck. So this year I'm determined to get some winter tyres. I've had a quick ring round and my usual tyre fitter can do me 4 Hankook W310's for £472 all in. I'm planning on storing my current tyres away and putting them back on in the Springtime. Last year, the same place did me 4 Khumo all weather tyres for about £360 so I guess the £472 doesn't sound so bad. However, I've no experience with these tyres and would appreciate any opinions on these (or similar winter tyres).

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated and, if you don't mind telling me, would you let me know what you payed for your winter tyres.

Cheers,

Mick.

[matt-c]

I've just been going through this whole thing, but sadly I don't have the funds to spring for new tyres, so I've been looking at part worns, or "retreads" (or very budget new tyres - ie, sub-£50 a corner)

In the end, I opted for part worns, but wasn't entertaining anything under 7mm tread depth (ideally 8 or 9), and annoyingly missed out by only a few quid on a set of Continental Winter Contacts with 9mm tread not far from me, that went for a touch over £250 (my budget was really £200). Then got outbid on two sets of Avon IceTour's, a set of Khumo's, and a set of Dunlop WinterSport 3D's too.

But this morning, I won a set of Uniroyal MS Plus 66's, with 7mm tread, for £251 inc shipping. Not my first choice (which were the Conti's) but I've had Uniroyals before (RainSports) and they were excellent, so hopefully their winter tyres are just as good - if they are half as good on snow as the Rainsports were on the wet, then I'll be pleased, cos the RainSports were by far the best tyres I've ever driven in the wet!

I've got a tatty set of standard IS rims in the shed waiting to be shoed with the Uniroyals, and my refurb'd rims with Hankook summer tyres on will rest there till spring.

Because I haven't driven my IS in winter before, nor actually run on winter tyres just yet, I can't offer any advice, other than I opted to go for 205/50-17's rather than the standard size of 215/45's - purely because the narrower the tyre the better when it comes to snow. If I could have got a set of 16" steels for it, I'd have gone down to 195 section tyres.

[micker35]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the reply mate. Although £472 is a lot of money, if this winter turns out to be like the ones we had a few years ago, I'm sure that I'll be glad I'd had them fitted. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet.

Cheers,

Mick.

[matt-c]

Mine should be arriving tomorrow, hopefully next door will take them in since I'm at work - otherwise I'll have to re-arrange delivery for next week. Then it's just a case of carting them, and the spare wheels, down to the local garage to have them fitted and balanced. Will wait till the temp really drops down to a consistent sub 7deg before actually fitting them to the car, as everything I've read suggests they work best below 7deg and running them when the temp is above that will just wear them quicker than normal.

Knowing my luck, after going to the expense I've gone to (£78 for the wheels, £251 for the tyres, plus fitting which is gonna be another £40-£50, so about £380 - £80 higher than my initial budget was!) we'll probably have the mildest winter on record! :D

If you fancy it, there's a set here I had on my watch list, but the Uniroyals I've bought finished first and I shot for them instead;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290802330580?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

You can see if the guy will allow you to arrange a collection with Paisley Freight (who delivered my wheels and are delivering the tyres I just bought too), as they do next day delivery, and 4 tyres only is £25 (http://www.paisleyfreight.com/alloy-wheel-courier.php)

[matt-c]

Uniroyals arrived today

There's 4, but they all look the same. Just need to get them fitted to the spare rims to check them under pressure, and if all good, shoe the car with them. Shame I don't have time or funds to refurb the grotty alloys they are going on. Maybe next year when it's back on summer tyres

[fil4362]

Last year, the same place did me 4 Khumo all weather tyres for about £360 so I guess the £472 doesn't sound so bad,,,,,, Anyway, although last winter was not a bad one (at least not where I live), on the few days when the roads were icy / snowy my car was all but paralysed.

Would i be right in thinking you spent 360 quid on diffrent tyres for winter and still got stuck and this year your planning on spending even more money on "special" tyres for winter?

I spent no extra money on my tyres and didnt get stuck once.!!!

This topic crops up every year and i still see no reason to spend any extra money at all on "diffrent" or "special" tyres for winter. Drive to suit the conditions and save your money. Thats my say on the matter i now await the arguements.

[matt-c]

You've lost me. You said last year, even with the low snow, your IS was nearly paralysed, so if it's a worse winter, it may well be paralysed, or at least make moving the car very difficult, but then say it's not worth spending money on "different" or "special" tyres, which are designed to combat exactly that?

I've never been stuck in winter, and have only had my IS since July. I'm taking a precaution because where I live, the last few years it's snowed about a foot, and I have to get out of a sideways facing incline and up a bit of a slope before even getting to a non-main road. Where I live doesn't get gritted or ploughed.

My car currently wears summer tyres, not "all season". All season tyres are a jack of all trades and a master of none - by definition of their description they are a compromise; by needing to provide adequate traction and grip in both summer and winter; hot/warm, dry roads, and cold, wet, snowy/icy roads. However, since the only thing keeping my car on the road are 4 tiny patches of black rubber - with a contact point about the side of a fag packet, I'd opt to go for the absolute best tyres I possibly can for the conditions. The Hankooks on it at the mo might not be the last name in summer tyre grip, but so far it hasn't come unstuck, even on "spirited" drives - even with the TRC off and a sidestep of the clutch mid bend, it doesn't want to slide much.

As for winter, I'd rather put some tyres on that work better in low temps. Winter tyres that carry the snowflake symbol are made using a different silica compound that remains flexible at much lower temps than all season or summer tyres (summer tyres drop off below 10deg, and winter tyres work best below 7 - with all season filling in the gaps. Add to that the sipes and larger tread pattern - designed to cope with snow (and mud - hence the M+S designation on nearly all winter tyres), even if I get 25% more grip in the snow than an all weather (and likely 50% more grip than a summer tyre) then they are worth it. Next door's Merc C class is driveway bound when it snows, even with the expensive Continentals it wears (not snow tyres). Fortunately, he also has a FWD car he can use - I don't. I've never had a RWD car before, so no first hand experience of them in the snow. Up till now I've always had FWD cars, usually with much skinnier tyres too, that have worked in winter. But observing all the BM's, Merc's, and even the 4x4's that get stuck in snow and ice, and nearly all the time it's down to having the wrong tyres for the conditions. Winter tyres are mandatory, by law, in many European countries - there's a reason for that, and it's not just that they get more snow than us.

[fil4362]

You've lost me. You said last year, even with the low snow, your IS was nearly paralysed, so if it's a worse winter, it may well be paralysed, or at least make moving the car very difficult, but then say it's not worth spending money on "different" or "special" tyres, which are designed to combat exactly that?

I've never been stuck in winter, and have only had my IS since July. I'm taking a precaution because where I live, the last few years it's snowed about a foot, and I have to get out of a sideways facing incline and up a bit of a slope before even getting to a non-main road. Where I live doesn't get gritted or ploughed.

My car currently wears summer tyres, not "all season". All season tyres are a jack of all trades and a master of none - by definition of their description they are a compromise; by needing to provide adequate traction and grip in both summer and winter; hot/warm, dry roads, and cold, wet, snowy/icy roads. However, since the only thing keeping my car on the road are 4 tiny patches of black rubber - with a contact point about the side of a fag packet, I'd opt to go for the absolute best tyres I possibly can for the conditions. The Hankooks on it at the mo might not be the last name in summer tyre grip, but so far it hasn't come unstuck, even on "spirited" drives - even with the TRC off and a sidestep of the clutch mid bend, it doesn't want to slide much.

As for winter, I'd rather put some tyres on that work better in low temps. Winter tyres that carry the snowflake symbol are made using a different silica compound that remains flexible at much lower temps than all season or summer tyres (summer tyres drop off below 10deg, and winter tyres work best below 7 - with all season filling in the gaps. Add to that the sipes and larger tread pattern - designed to cope with snow (and mud - hence the M+S designation on nearly all winter tyres), even if I get 25% more grip in the snow than an all weather (and likely 50% more grip than a summer tyre) then they are worth it. Next door's Merc C class is driveway bound when it snows, even with the expensive Continentals it wears (not snow tyres). Fortunately, he also has a FWD car he can use - I don't. I've never had a RWD car before, so no first hand experience of them in the snow. Up till now I've always had FWD cars, usually with much skinnier tyres too, that have worked in winter. But observing all the BM's, Merc's, and even the 4x4's that get stuck in snow and ice, and nearly all the time it's down to having the wrong tyres for the conditions. Winter tyres are mandatory, by law, in many European countries - there's a reason for that, and it's not just that they get more snow than us.

quote "Last year, the same place did me 4 Khumo all weather tyres for about £360 so I guess the £472 doesn't sound so bad,,,,,, Anyway, although last winter was not a bad one (at least not where I live), on the few days when the roads were icy / snowy my car was all but paralysed." unquote

That was copied from the first post in this thread.

I have had my Lexus 5 years and never been stuck come to think of it i have never been stuck in the snow in any car. Thats any car i have ever driven. Theres obviously diffrent road conditions aroound the country but in my experiance of 23 years of drivign i have never been stuck and never bought winter tyres.

I recently put a brand new set of cheap arse no name tyres on my car as i blew the budget on new wheels, these grip better than the old uniroyal tyres ever did. Theres a lot to be said for just a plain old normal decent set of good treaded tyres. As a mechanic/mot tester who fits 10-15 tyres a day i have never until very recently (last 2 years) even seen a winter tyre. Out of 2000 or so customers on my books i have one who asks for winter tyres.The only other time i see them is when some one has been for a part worn tyre from somewhere else and they have had one put on.

I wont be convinced theres a need for winter tyres, drive your car to match the conditions just liek your told to when you take your lessons, if if the snows too bad you need to adapt your car for the weather then i feel you shouldnt be using your car, even the weather forcasters and all motoring agencies say " only do vital jourrnies" seriously if yourr gonnaa get stuck it gonna happen a slightly softer compund tyre with slightly diffrent tread patterns isnt going to get you out of it. feel free to spend your money though if it makes you feel safer on the roads, infact come see me i will happily sell you a set !

[matt-c]

I see. Personally, I completely disagree with your mentality and approach to it, but hey ho, such is life. As a professional driver, I get to see all weathers on a constant basis, and working for the largest motoring organisation in Europe, I come across all types. Until last year, I'd never got stuck in snow either, but even though last winter was milder than other recent years, even my FWD transit, with it's chunky truck tyres, got stuck in the foot of snow we had, and I had to leave it where it was.

I also personally don't think that changing items to suit conditions is wrong or means you shouldn't be driving. I mean, we use steak knives for eating meat, or should we use a butter knife? I mean, a knife is a knife right? A jacket is a jacket, so why would we need padded ones or water proof ones?

And coming from a history of modifying cars, I also disagree on spending more money on mods than basic essentials (or even non essentials) - like wheels instead of good tyres. Might look great on the car, but the car won't look great when it's lying on it's side in a ditch. I've been there and done the whole "well if I spend £xxx on a turbo I can't afford £xxx for servicing - but I'd rather have the uprated turbo" or bodykit, whatever. End result, car looked great, but drove like a bag of sh!t.

Maybe it's just me getting older, or maturity, or something else, but I'd prefer to spend money on safety things these days than bigger wheels or louder exhausts.

However we are all entitled to our own opinions, and none of them, by definition, can be wrong. But to come across with the attitude of "I didn't get stuck in the snow, because I'm such an ace driver - you did, so you must be a crap driver" is pretty dumb.

And as an ex tyre fitter, I'm shocked you don't actually know anything about winter tyres. Pretty relived I didn't have you work on any of my cars, no offence.

[fil4362]

Hey why dont you go for a set of 155 tyres while your upgrading them for winter. Or get some chains oooo tell you what get some spikes. Narrow tyres are better in the snow spikes and chains are even better.

My point is the diffrence you will get is so slight you wont notice. You cant compare one year to the next not even one road to the next as conditions will never be the same. Manufactures give all sorts of claims which i am sure under test conditions they can actually prove. Sorry i dont live in a lab i live in the real world.

As far as loud exhaust and big tyres go if you look at my picture you will see the wheels are not big wheelss they are totally standard, and yes my exhaust did cost 400 pounds just for the back section but its no louderr than the standard system.

As ex tyre fitter and i presume your an AA man (the biggest motoring organisation) you should know transit vans dont come with truck tyres. They are fitted with 8 ply light comercial tyres. As for the AA ha ha, i have been involved in the sueing of the AA for poor workman ship so many times its untrue. You see i dont mind sticking my neck out or standing in court in pursuit of the rightfull work on my customers cars. The most recent one was an AA man, he diagnosed a fuel pump fault. He then lifted the back seat and proceeded to hit the aformentioned fuel pump with ever increasing sizes of tool whislt the owner tried to start the car. The fuel pump housing being plastic , didnt take long to crack. Thank fully it did still fail to start, starting to work would have lead to a very bad fuel leak. I of course presumed it was the owner that had been hitting it and it was only when i questioned her about it she told me the story of the AA man. Funny isnt it the AA paid for all repair work to the fuel pump and i charged the customer for the crankshaft sensor the car actually needed. to boot the AA man in question still works as?? yes you guessed it , an AA man.

Please forgive me for not valueing your thoughts and comments in the same way you dont value mine.

Oh and just for the record the AA started as a motoring organisation which used to warn members of impending speed traps ,,,, now hows that for responsible motoring.

[matt-c]

Yes, slimmer tyres are much better for snow (I think I actually said that already?), but 155's won't fit on 7J rims, so that's not an option. We don't get ice packed roads severe enough for spikes, and I'm not putting chains on my refurbished wheels.

I also don't live in a lab, and as such don't take manufacturers word as gospel. But instead prefer to speak to real people in the real world and take their advice. And 95% of them say that there is a huge difference with snowflake marked tyres compared to all weather or summer tyres, with the majority citing night and day like differences. I wouldn't expect anyone with any common sense to just take the word of the marketing specialists employed by companies as to what product to buy. You want real world test reports, ideally from impartial parties or individuals. Funnily enough, that's a big reason why forums like this exist.

Re bigger wheels and louder exhaust - I was speaking generally, not specifically or personally.

I do work for the AA, but I'm not an ex tyre fitter (or even a current tyre fitter). But if you are valuing my thoughts and comments based on my working for the AA, then think again - I'm not an "AA man". And thanks, I know the history behind the AA - they didn't actually start as a means to warn motorists of impending speed traps, but yes they did warn people of them.

But we are digressing massively; this is a thread about tyres vs conditions, not who works where or for who. I can only assume it's because you didn't like my comment about glad you haven't worked on my car at any point. As I said "no offence" - I don't know you personally, so all I can draw from is what you've written and the attitude you portray within it - the reason for my comment is you seem (again, seem - I don't know, but get that impression from your writing and wording) oblivious to tyres; how they work and what they do. For that reason I wouldn't want you fitting tyres to my car; I like to know the tyres being fitted are suitable for the vehicle and not just any old tyre with any old speed rating or weight handling capacity. I like to know the compound they are made off, do they have hard or soft sidewalls to handle weight and cornering, are they noisy or quiet, quick or slow wearing, etc etc. Just "throwing on cheap tyres" isn't really my idea of a good idea. Been there, done that, learned from it.

But as I said, you're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine - and neither can be wrong. Such is the nature of opinions! But that doesn't mean I have to listen to them, or take them on board (nor you mine), and as I said; leading with the attitude of "I think I'm much better than you at driving" completely makes me discredit anything you've got to say from the get go. To then go on with the attitude of "I think I'm better than everyone else at whatever is mentioned" cements that. I know many people like that (everyone knows at least one) - we call them "two sh!ts" - because if I've had one, you've had two.

Anyway, I'll be getting my winter tyres fitted and balanced on my spare rims next week, and then probably fit them onto the car towards the end of November, early Dec. Lets see if we get any snow this winter so I can make my own mind up from experience - that's always the best thing to do. It's also why I'd never completely disregard a product without having tried it - doing so is pretty stupid. I'm skeptical of lots of things, but I wouldn't blast anything I've never actually tried. Doing that makes an opinion on anything else even less valid.

[fil4362]

Where in my post does it say i am a better driver than you ? If it does then so be it i cant be bothered to read my post again. I dont use winter tyres and i pretty certain i didnt say you shouldnt use them either. I have never used them and never crashed ro failed to use my car either.I mearly said drive in accordance with the conditions.

You work for the AA and drive a transit van ? what do you do then ? And i dont think working for thee AA qualifies you as a "profesional driver" hold a psv licence and dont concider myself a pro driver.

I also held a rally licenece for a while as well but that neither makes me a better driver. I also hold qualifications in caving climbing and canoeing i am also a football coach qualified of course oh and a referee. Theres lots of things i hold qualifications in but non of them make me better than you mearly experianced in what i do.

I am also the only person in thhe country capable aand able (other then Luk) capable of fitting a dsg gearbox with a new clutch. I know this as i am the only person in the country who has bought the tool for doing such a job. Luk make the clutches and have only ordered 2 tools at the cost of 1500 each they have one i have the other. The dealers are simply fitting new gearboxes when one fails. Again tthis doesnt make me any better than yourself but it does prove how commited i am to my job and not just doing it for the pay cheque.

I also do understand tyres, and as of last week so should everyone else as all new tyres now come with a complete description of noise were and water dispersal abilities so its no longer rocket science.

So you keep driving your AA van. I will still be sat in my garage waiting for all the ones with more than a flat batery or puncture that you cant fix.

[LexIS200Sport]

I've had my IS200 Sport through the last 2 winters, the former which was particularly snow-heavy (and fun, if I may add :P)

I've got a set of four Continental winter tyres (see my sig below), and I highly recommend them for driving in snow. These tyres have never let me down, they are grippy enough that I very rarely have the traction control light flashing at me when I take off from standstill (sensibly, of course).

I guess the proof is in the pudding.

The tyre size is 205/55/R16 and rated at 91H. They are mounted onto a set of 16" wheels, sourced from the IS220D.

[TigerFish]

Just to add to the pro winter tyres brigade, I run winter tyres on my GS430 Sport (275/35/18 rears, 245/40/18 fronts) and would highly recommend the switch at this time of year if you have a spare set of wheels (as I did). My car spent two three week stints stuck in a side road as it would make the hill where I live and then getting stuck where I had to leave it instead. Winter tyres do the job no problem at all and I've not come close to be stuck yet, fingers crossed.

[matt-c]

Where in my post does it say i am a better driver than you ? If it does then so be it i cant be bothered to read my post again. I dont use winter tyres and i pretty certain i didnt say you shouldnt use them either. I have never used them and never crashed ro failed to use my car either.I mearly said drive in accordance with the conditions.

You work for the AA and drive a transit van ? what do you do then ? And i dont think working for thee AA qualifies you as a "profesional driver" hold a psv licence and dont concider myself a pro driver.

I also held a rally licenece for a while as well but that neither makes me a better driver. I also hold qualifications in caving climbing and canoeing i am also a football coach qualified of course oh and a referee. Theres lots of things i hold qualifications in but non of them make me better than you mearly experianced in what i do.

I am also the only person in thhe country capable aand able (other then Luk) capable of fitting a dsg gearbox with a new clutch. I know this as i am the only person in the country who has bought the tool for doing such a job. Luk make the clutches and have only ordered 2 tools at the cost of 1500 each they have one i have the other. The dealers are simply fitting new gearboxes when one fails. Again tthis doesnt make me any better than yourself but it does prove how commited i am to my job and not just doing it for the pay cheque.

I also do understand tyres, and as of last week so should everyone else as all new tyres now come with a complete description of noise were and water dispersal abilities so its no longer rocket science.

So you keep driving your AA van. I will still be sat in my garage waiting for all the ones with more than a flat batery or puncture that you cant fix.

The comments and attitude you initially made about how you've never got stuck in the snow, and can drive to the conditions and if others can't they shouldn't be driving, etc, is very much inferring you think you are better than others. It's reading between the lines, so don't be so literal about it - that just adds childishness to your self-projected attitude.

Being such a professional in the trade, and knowing about tyres as you say, reaffirms my point that saying something doesn't work and isn't needed, when you haven't even had personal experience of it on your own cars, that your input is completely invalid. And to try and back up that point by saying you haven't needed winter tyres with "I haven't had winter tyres and I haven't crashed" compacts it again. I haven't rolled my car over, but I still know that wearing a seatbelt is a good idea. I haven't crashed headfirst into a wall, but I still know airbags are a good idea. I haven't hit a deer, but I still know laminated windscreens are a good idea.

To further point it, surely if you're driving to the conditions of the weather, then that would include fitting tyres that are designed to work in low and freezing temps to provide extra grip on snow, ice and standing water? You've already said you understand tyres, so you should know that not all tyres are the same. Should we liken it to footwear? You wouldn't go rock climbing in sandals would you? Why not - they are both shoes aren't they? Would you go cross training in a pair of steel toe work boots? Why not - they are shoes, just as trainers are. Would you work in a building site wearing a baseball cap instead of a hard hat? Of course you would - after all, they are both hats aren't they?

Back onto driving to the conditions - that's all well and good, and I fully agree; I don't expect having winter tyres to mean I can hoon around like it's summer with a foot of snow on the ground. But if you can't get the car off the drive, how can you drive to the conditions? Putting getting moving to the side (which if you can't, makes everything else academic anyway), I'd rather have a set of tyres fitted that also benefits stopping and braking, along with adding increased grip for cornering.

This video is from the Canadian Automobile Association (not a tyre company) and I'd like to think it accurately shows the difference between winter and non winter tyres;

As far as insurance goes, I am classed as a professional driver, because of how much time I spend behind the wheel, miles covered per week and that driving makes up 50% of my job. Hence why technically I'm classed as a professional driver.

I don't fit tyres, or fix punctures, or change batteries, or tow or relay anyone.

[LexIS200Sport]

Alright, just to break the tension a little bit... if anyone was doubting the IS200's performance on icy roads, who's better to put it to rest than the Russians??

I bet that car had winter tyres on too!! :P

[matt-c]

Crazy Russians!

[micker35]

Hi Folks,

I haven't looked at this thread for a couple of days and I'm amazed at how lively it's got. Matt, on post #6 it looks like fil4362 has taken some of my previous post and used it as the beginning of a new one. That's not me in post #6. In my humble opinion I think that driving my car in proper snow with my current tyres would be unthinkable. I'll definately be putting snow tyres on although I'd really rather do it for less than the £472 I mention above. I've been googling and have come across winter tyres made by Nankang (Nankang Snow V2's) for around about £75 per corner. They seem to review well and one of the reviewers was a GS300 owner (who thought they were pretty good). Anyway, I'll let you all know how I get on.

Cheers,

Mick.

[matt-c]

I looked at the SV2's myself, and as you say they reviewed pretty well; from what I can tell no worse than the Uniroyals I went with (as said, my primary choice would have been Continental WinterContact's, and 2nd place would have been Dunlop 3D's, but also looked at Avon IceTour's and even a set of Khumo's too)

I'll be getting mine on my spare rims end of this week, and will fit them shortly after. When it's dark it within the temp range (was down to 4deg on my way home just now!) but in the day it's still above 7, so I might wait a couple more weeks/end of the month before putting them on the car

[fil4362]

Theres how many people recomendign winter tyres ? 7 /8 i am not going count. you have all based your winter performance on your past expericance of tyres in the winter. But theres talk of temperature diffrences of 4 degrees, to hot for them yet will wait another couple of weeks. Do you guys wake up in the mornings with a thermometer then do a quick pit stop before you go to work to see which wheels/tyres your going to use that day

.You cant compare tyres from one part of the countrry to the other or snow depth if these tyres by your own admition work better in temp variations of as little as 4 degrees. Your all saying you get through the winter just fine with them and thats your proof they work. I get through the winter without them thats my reason for not using them.

I have 2500 ish customers on my data base at work one just one askes for winter tyres. He wants them and has them and thats just fine. He lives on hill and thinks they get him home better at night after a day at work thats also fine. he drives a mercedes with all the modern gadgets on. My brother lives higher up the same hill they live on the same street , he has a bmw with no traction control he doesnt have snow tyres he got home every night last year. so what does that tell us ? not much except does the guy in the mercedes really need 400 quids worth of tyres and 300 quids worth of extra wheels in the winter ? the answer has got to be NO.

ok for a second think of big motoring organisations ,,, the AA for a start then through in the postal service to namee just 2 ,does either of them pull their fleet in when the weather gets cold to have the tyres changed ? does they have thousands of spare wheels kicking around just waiting for the cold weather?. Surley if winter, snow, snow flake marked tyres what evver you call them where that good every company would have them on their vehicle. When the waether turns bad their stafff couldnt get their vehicles out of the depot slip slide and crash all over the place productivity must be down big time. If theres a coupe of weeks of snow and their vehicles are out of service for this time surley winter tyres would, affectivley save the economy millions in the long run.

The end fo the day these "special tyres" work for such a short period of time they are just not worth the massive outlay, And dont start about "what priice do you put on saftey " as no ones mentioning saftey its all about getting stuck.

Yes we have laminated windscreens and air bags and seat belts and all the other devices mentioned but non are saftey devices are they. they dont make you drive safer they prevent you getting hurt should you crash. Surley the point is not to crash on the first place so that point doesnt matter.

Last year thee mercedes driver mentioned above came in for new tyres for winter , both my tyre suppliers strugglwed to evn get the tyres he wanted as non of them stocked them,both are mutli national companies. I guess the demand for them just isnt high enough to warrent stocking them.

people have posted "evidance " of better tyres from where? russia ? canada? sory this is england last time i checked the bad weather we have is for such a short time and the beniftis so slight and the evidance so slim i cannot and for the foreseeable future refuse to promote the use of winter tyres. Can you imangine me trying to sell my customers tyres where to get the best otu of them he gets to use them a couple of months a year only when the moon is right and the skys are clear when the temp iis low enough that they will work better 400 quid is a heap of money in this area, when the customer laughs at his neighbour who he knows will be stuck because they guy at the garage has told him to spend all that money on tyres for winter,and his neighbour hasnt bothered. Can you imagine the look of sheer horrow when his neighbour also drives safetly to work with otu spending the money.

Once again i do undertstand the benifts of winter tyres but for the cost to time of use to actual benifit ratio i cant justify the money.

So when you all come back after the winter and say woo i glad i spent well on my tyres i didnt spin or slide at all i will sit here and think you know what ,,,, neither did i .

Some peopel dont seem to realsie that as a mechanic/ mot tester of 23 years alogn with the other lads at my garage we havee over 120 years of car repair service and mot experiance between us (so we must know what were talking about or we wouldnt be in bussiness) non of us use or see the reason to use winter tyres. Infact as i talk to all the garages in my area non of them recomend or use them either.

[TigerFish]

Phil, I can't even be bothered to read whatever it is you have written this time. I managed the first couple of lines and you had already started to belittle folk. Just give it up. If I want to fit winter tyres, I will, and I'm not gonna listen to some trumpt up individual that has an over inflated opinion of his own self importance, especially when there is no defensible logic behind the ranting crap you are coming out with. If insults is your way of getting your own way, go try bullying somewhere else.

I can't believe I have found two people in as many weeks to put in my ignore list, when in all the other years on LOC I had only felt the need to sanction 1 person to that list. Give yourself a round of applause :)

[darkoracle]

I started to read it - but I fell asleep.

[matt-c]

Oh dear.....

[fil4362]

Feel free to fit your tyres i never stopped anyone, if you also feel the need to ignore the experiance of a 40 year old mechanic with 23 years experiance in the motortrade also feel free.

8/9 people on here cant be wrong so it must be my 2500 customers and every single mutli vehicle company int he country that must have it wrong in not using them

I make my living from this not just something i picked up on google.

[fil4362]

http://www.theaa.com...-in-the-uk.html

any body bother t read that artical written by the biggest motoring organisatioon in the country ???

pay special attention to this section

quote from the AA "many parts of the country never or only rarely experience weather conditions that would justify use of winter tyres"

" many drivers choose not to use the car when snow or ice are around"

"assuming that the industry could supply tyres in sufficient volume, the overall cost would be prohibitive – estimated at £500/car x 30million cars = £15billion for wheels/tyres plus storage and fitting costs

If you read the artical it also says changing your tyres you should inform your insurance company

again i quote from the AA "Over the winter of 2010/11 we did hear reports of some insurers increasing premiums or remarkably even refusing cover if winter tyres are fitted. As a result we recommend talking to your insurer if you are considering fitting winter tyres

Strange isnt it on reading the artical it would apear the AA, the countries, no europes biggest motoring organisation seems to agree with all of my points.