Id=S Dealer Being Nice Or They Are Trying To Conn Me :-)

[Jamalaya]

OK,

I got the is220d just over 3 months ago. The car is fine and drives smoothly until I decided to use the heater since it started to get cold early morning. It heats up for about 5 minutes and it goes really cold. So I cannot use it.

The car is still under warranty. I called them for a claim and they work through Prestige and they sent me to a local garage.He said the pipe is leaking coolant even though I never saw leaking anywhere. He needs to change a pipe and then he said but the car is still leaking somewhere and still needs more diagnostics.

At this point for changing a pipe I was quoted £180.00. I am not a mechanic but it sounded a lot for half hour work. I declined.

I went to Lexus for investigation. They spent 2 hours on the car and it needs head gasket, pistons and rings.

Price £2250.00 ouch.

I talked a bit and they agreed to do the lot for £1650.00 and reduced their hourly labour from £110 to £70.

The warranty pays only £59/hour

The head gasket is included in the warranty but probably not the piston and rings unless it is the cause of failure.

I need the car for work obviously.

Lexus dealer will contact the warranty people and take care of all the paper work and negotiation. I don't think I will pay the whole bill.

Lexus did not charge me for the 2 hours and they will also give me a CT for the duration of the repair.

Are they being nice or am I about to be screwed :-)

Thanks

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

I've seen bigger bills on this forum for cars under warranty for your problem so I think they are genuinely trying to help you out. Not charging for the diagnostic and giving you a CT courtesy car is a nice touch as is dropping their labour charge Bristol Lexus also did this for me when I was facing a £1500 bill on my IS200. Brought my bill down to £920.

I really don't think your getting screwed and Lexus dealership is the best place to have this repair carried out in my opinion.

[Jamalaya]

yeah I agree. They just called me, and the warranty will cover the head gasket. The difference in labour payable by me is £560.00. Which is not bad considering the work, I think.

There is one caveat, They need to strip the engine to find the exact problem for the warranty people (although their mechanics are very confident what the problem is). If they find that head gasket is warped then it is not covered by warranty. The chance is slim as I was assured by Lexus.

How likely that this might happen?

[normski2]

Quite likely if its been blown for some time.

[noby76]

if you have only had the vehicle for 3 months then should you not be covered by the sale of goods act law? or am I missing something here?

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-buying-second-hand-cars/second-hand-cars-your-rights/

[Jamalaya]

OK, now you are scaring me :-)

I don't drive hard, 99% motorway drive at 60-70 m/h and I think this is normal driving. The car is hardly driven on weekends. Unless it was driven hard by the previous owner then I think I might to check my rights. I di test it when I bought and the A/C is working fine.

If the head gasket is already blown then I would have noticed right? Loss of power or something?

The car drives fine and has a lot of power (no loss of power at all) and it is very smooth and quiet. I think they just caught the problem or they are doing it as a pre-emptive strike :-).

I spoke with the mechanic and he thought I was losing power as well which I was not. So he thinks it is unlikely.

Well it is going in next Tuesday so fingers crossed.

That link is useful I am going to research it deeper.

thanks

[normski2]

One thing is without question here.

Lexus know well of a Head Gasket issue with the Diesel engine 220. Why else would they extend the warranty on this engine to 7 yrs / 110,000 miles, whichever comes first.

I had a 2007 220d that had exactly the same at 104,000 mls. Lexus replaced the head and other items, all at their expense. If you have a FLSH all stamped up in your service book then I would think you could well qualify for the warranty repair. Read up all you can and you will be in a much more confident position when discussing your problem with Lexus.

I am no legal expert but at 3 months you may fall outside the sale of goods act. If it were 3 weeks then you be in a much better place.

Read as much as you can here regarding Head Gasket problems....... There is really quite a lot. Also find the post put up by Ormi who put up some excellent photos of what the problem is with the head 'moving', albeit in tiny amounts. This all helps prove that this is a known design fault.

When it's all done consider the use of fuel additives and learn how to keep an eye on the EGR valve. It is quite simple to clean and doing so will benefit the integrity of your engine. The last thing you want is carbon build up in your engine.

[steve2006]

Got to agree if your car is less than 7 years old which it is and has done < 110,000 and has a FLSH it should be repaired completely free to you and at the expense of Lexus.

The loan car, free diagnostic, reduced labour rates and dealing direct with your warranty company will give you the nice impression Lexus are doing you a great favour when in fact they are saving themselves the cost of the repair which should be covered under their own warranty as it is a well known and documented problem with this engine.

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Steve's 100% right! For some reason I thought you were over the 110miles? Must've got confused with another thread.

Yeah if your Car is under 7 years old and under 110k miles then Lexus should pay the bill in its entirety! However if you don't have a Full Lexus Service History all stamped up at the correct intervals then that's a bit of a loop hole for them! :(

[Jamalaya]

Hmmm .. But I am not the original owner. I bought the car just over 3 months ago. Will that make a difference?

[normski2]

I bought my car 4 months before it popped. I was 2nd owner.

[noby76]

Hi Jamalaya as i confirmed earlier you do have the right to have it repaired under sale of goods act law.

have a read through this link. section 48A (3) applies to your case which extends to section 48B so i dint think you need to pay a penny to Lexus. I recon you could phone them up and quote these sections to them they will then contact thier Legal dept for confirming and come back with an answer you want to hear.

http://www.legislati...1979/54/part/5A

you can also mention about this being a known issue by Lexus so chances of you causing the head gasket to blow in your ownership within 3 months is very very slim.

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Doesn't matter that your not the original owner. My brother in law is the second owner of his 220d and he's had a few jobs done under recall and warranty such as the rattling dash board and shaking rear view mirror.

You need the service history perfect is what he tells me :)

[steve2006]

You basically have 2 routes of action, if the vehicle meets the criteria of 7y/110,000/FLSH then go to Lexus as a warranty claim if not try via the SOGA with the seller.

If you could confirm you have a FLSH it would make matters a lot easier for us to make suggestions of which course to take.

[jason61c]

Its not 110000 miles its 140,000 miles if a full history ;)

[Jamalaya]

Sorry for the delay, work :( Ok, looking at the service book, it is stamped for every year. It does not look like Lexus. It is by Galvin Garages in Glasgow for the first 4 years and last year at Kingsdown MOT Centre Swindon.

I am still confused, and here is why (mainly because of my ignorance),

There was nothing unusual with the car.

I tried to use the heater to demist my windows. I get hot air for about 2-5 minutes then it is cold again (freezing). I tried AC and FAN.

I called the Warranty people (AutoProtect) and they called Prestige who put in touch with a local garage,

The local garage said it is the hose pipe even though there is no leak on the floor. They would have to order the hose and fit but it will cost 180 including fittings and he continues, the car is still leaking coolant but we don't know where. So they need further investigation.

At this point I lost faith, since they had the car for whole day and they came up with nothing and will have to pay 180 quids.

So I took it to Lexus who diagnosed the Head Gasket. Now here is my confusion, is there a relationship between the head gasket and heating or coolant?

Lexus did not know about the warranty until I told them after they gave me the bad news. After that they did all the paper work on my behalf and offered a replacement car until my car is fixed (about 13 hours labour)).

Th warranty people agreed to pay for the head gasket (as long as it is not warped otherwise I have to pay the lot) and the difference in hourly labour.

While I was at Lexus, a mechanic was there as well and he is confident that it is not warped since it drives really good and they have not come across cases where the head was warped.

The car is not due in till Tuesday so I am using the car and behold the heating is working perfect. (maybe they did a temp fix or something).

AS I said there was nothing wrong driving the car. It pulls like a truck.

Then again my knowledge in cars is limited.

Thanks

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

As I understand it, and I am by no means saying I'm right, but you don't have a full Lexus service history so Lexus don't have to pay the bill in its entirety do it would appear that they are doing their best for you.

Also you still haven't told us WHAT MILEAGE DOES YOUR CAR HAVE? Because if it's over 140,000 then Lexus don't have to come good on the warranty.

Also yes the heaters not working on your car are one of the 1st symptoms of a head gasket failure.

[Jamalaya]

The mileage is 70233. thanks.

[Jamalaya]

yes I agree. I don't have FLSH. I will check the other route. I must admit they are being very good with me. They did not even charge for the 2 hours they spent on the car. I know no problem with them at all and I prefer them to local garage.

[normski2]

There is most definitely a link between coolant loss and a head gasket problem. Take a good look at your coolant reservoir.... Are there oily droplets in there? Does it smell of exhaust fumes? Unscrew the oil filler cap... Is there a mayonnaise like goo inside the lid?

These are classic head gasket problem indicators.

Personally, I would not advise driving the car with a blown head gasket. You would be increasing your risk of warping the head by driving the car.

On the subject of the service history... The fact that you have a full service record is good. My understanding is that Lexus are not allowed to dictate that only their servicing will qualify you for this cover. This would in essence be operating a restrictive practice which under European Union law is illegal. No doubt they will try and argue the technicalities of correct parts and practice being observed. But, the fundamental problem here is not so much servicing, but more of a design flaw in the manufacture of the original engine. This head gasket issue is a known problem to Lexus, that is why they extended the warranty on the Diesel engine.

[Jamalaya]

I hate my ignorance sometimes :megaangry: What I have read here so far I feel that they should do it free. What if the warranty company (AutoProtect) heard about this? Will they still pay for something Lexus is supposedly fixing for free?

I am also wondering why the warranty people never contacted me?

[Jamalaya]

Hi all,

I have decided on this course of action.

1. talk to Lexus abut this known problem. Car is under 7 years, 70000 miles and full history but not Lexus. Should not matter from what I was reading and your suggestions.

2. Talk to the dealer and inform them of the problem.

3. talk to the finance company. (2 and 3) are jointly liable according to the Sales of good act.

4. talk to the warranty people.

if they still refuse, I will write to Lexus HQ, write a letter to Dealr and Finance company. Stop payment of car. Add any expenses I will incur in hiring a car to get to work.

and see what happens. I feel I don't have to pay a penny for dead car.

Any other ideas or input please let me k now. I would have paid the labour difference but if it is warped I will have to pay the lot. This what really pushed me and now I will not pay anything.

thanks all for your advice.

[normski2]

Make sure you stay calm and focused on your problem. Do not lose your temper it will not help anything at this stage.

Best of luck to you.

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Good for you mate. I know if that were my car I'd try and get Lexus to pay the lot... As you say known design fault and your under 7 years and 140k.

Just be careful because if you stop payments for your car, then they'll come and repossess it. Happened to me when I was younger and bought a car I couldn't afford!

[normski2]

Good point... i did not notice that line.

Think you would be unwise to stop payment at this point in all honesty.