Dvla Entrapment Beware!

[ambermarine]

Hi Fellow Lexuns

Word of warning on the SORN enforcement policing.

As some of you will know from my recent posts I have aqquired a replacement 98 ls400 for the 90 LS400 I had owned for sixteen years.

In July I owned both cars and wanted to transfer the private plate from the 90 too the 98.I visited my local DVLA office in Glasgow and following their instructions did the transfer before selling the 90 to protect my registration plate apparantly if you don't do this the buyer can keep the plate as it officially belongs to the car.Whilst the process was taking place the 90 sold on eBay and the buyer took possesion of it before the tax expired in JULY.

As the V5C had gone to the transfer office in Manchester The buyer could not present a green new keeper section from the V5C so in August when he tried to Tax the car his local office DVLA refused to tax it on the grounds it was still registered to me but they knew the plate transfer was in progress as he was told that by them ,they said he could tax the vehicle as soon as the new V5C was issued to me with a new registration number.

With it so far?

I received my transferred plate two weeks later for my new car but there was no problem here as the car was taxed till November when I bought it.

A week later I received the new V5C for the 90 and it was the original first reg number .I signed the V5C and immediatly sent it to the buyer so he could at least tax the car he had not been allowed to use for three weeks.

Last Friday I received a £80 fixed penalty and £18 back duty for not Sorning the 90 Lexus ,the notice carried the new registration number and not the private plate number so we are now getting into crystal ball territory.How can I Sorn a vehicle with a registration I don't know and I can't sorn a vehicle that is taxed,niether can I Sorn a vehicle that I don't own and don't even have knowledge of its whereabouts

I protested vehemently but too no avail.

According to them they only have an application for tax from the new owner and have not received the V5C making me the culprit for not sending in the V5C . which is not what the original offence was, I have been assured by the new owner that he did send off the V5C and I have no reason to doubt his word.

The crazy part of all this is that when I asked about the back duty they said they were letting me off that sum as they know I was'nt in possesion of the car .The person I had to pay offered to send a dispute pack but I believe whatever is said in my defence this matter is cut and dried as far as they are concerned and just another way of fleecing us and driving the innocent to dispise Government departments.

The whole issue as left a nasty taste in my mouth as I endeavoured to do things by the book and did my upmost to get the buyer on the road as fast as possible,despite the cumbersome way the DVLA work.

[Malc]

Smacks of MALADMINISTRATION and I would at least tell them this and that you are going to insist that this course is pursued unless they take the sensible route and cancel the whole nonsense.

I would always refer the issue to a more senior officer and then upwards and onwards to an even more senior officer until you eventually get satisfaction.

I predict that they will decide to give in before the maladministration angle takes effect !

Try it at least.

Malc

[Bluesman]

Hi Fellow Lexuns

Word of warning on the SORN enforcement policing.

As some of you will know from my recent posts I have aqquired a replacement 98 ls400 for the 90 LS400 I had owned for sixteen years.

In July I owned both cars and wanted to transfer the private plate from the 90 too the 98.I visited my local DVLA office in Glasgow and following their instructions did the transfer before selling the 90 to protect my registration plate apparantly if you don't do this the buyer can keep the plate as it officially belongs to the car.Whilst the process was taking place the 90 sold on EBay and the buyer took possesion of it before the tax expired in JULY.

As the V5C had gone to the transfer office in Manchester The buyer could not present a green new owner section from the V5C so in August when he tried to Tax the car his local office DVLA refused to tax it on the grounds it was still registered to me but they knew the plate transfer was in progress as he was told that by them ,they said he could tax the vehicle as soon as the new V5C was issued to me with a new registration number.

With it so far?

I received my transferred plate two weeks later for my new car but there was no problem here as the car was taxed till November when I bought it.

A week later I received the new V5C for the 90 and it was the original first reg number .I signed the V5C and immediatly sent it to the buyer so he could at least tax the car he had not been allowed to use for three weeks.

Last Friday I received a £80 fixed penalty and £18 back duty for not Sorning the 90 Lexus ,the notice carried the new registration number and not the private plate number so we are now getting into crystal ball territory.How can I Sorn a vehicle with a registration I don't know and I can't sorn a vehicle that is taxed,niether can I Sorn a vehicle that I don't own and don't even have knowledge of its whereabouts

I protested vehemently but too no avail.

According to them they only have an application for tax from the new owner and have not received the V5C making me the culprit for not sending in the V5C . which is not what the original offence was, I have been assured by the new owner that he did send off the V5C and I have no reason to doubt his word.

The crazy part of all this is that when I asked about the back duty they said they were letting me off that sum as they know I was'nt in possesion of the car .The person I had to pay offered to send a dispute pack but I believe whatever is said in my defence this matter is cut and dried as far as they are concerned and just another way of fleecing us and driving the innocent to dispise Government departments.

The whole issue as left a nasty taste in my mouth as I endeavoured to do things by the book and did my upmost to get the buyer on the road as fast as possible,despite the cumbersome way the DVLA work.

There is sadly only one way out of this and it involves an awful lot of work from you.

First write to them and list in a logical order the list of events including dates and times with as much detail as you can remember.

Send it to them by recorded delivery and wait.

Remember one very important thing if they go to court its down to them to prove your guilty and not you proving yourself innocent.

Should you get a reply from them unless they are asking for more evidence that you have forgotten to tell them in the first instance just send them your first letter again by recorded delivery, that's very important with any dealings these days with the DVLA, if I send them anything these days its always recorded delivery.

You know you have a fight on your hands but don't get uptight only write to them when you are in a calm mood and don't let it wind you up, keep it to the facts and remember you are not writing a letter to your favorite aunt so keep it tight to the point and concise.

One other thing to remember is that you are now dealing with a private company and they are interested in making profits and not wasting time, efforts and monies on cases that wont produce a profit for them.

They will probably not even read your first letter it will go straight into the bin.

They will send you letters threatening all sorts on headed noted paper that looks very official don't fall for it, they have no more power to wield than you or I do.

To get monies from you they have to take you to court and a judge will decide on the balance of evidence presented as to whether you are guilty or not. Only a judge can issue Bailiff warrants and that cant be done until you have been to the court and then only if you have not complied with the judges direction and judgement.

This is a County Court which is a Civil Court and not a criminal court

Believe you me if what you tell me is exactly what happened after a while they will get fed up with it and you wont hear anymore, not even an apology.

Good luck and keep us informed how you get on.

Mike

[ambermarine]

Hi Fellow Lexuns

Word of warning on the SORN enforcement policing.

As some of you will know from my recent posts I have aqquired a replacement 98 ls400 for the 90 LS400 I had owned for sixteen years.

In July I owned both cars and wanted to transfer the private plate from the 90 too the 98.I visited my local DVLA office in Glasgow and following their instructions did the transfer before selling the 90 to protect my registration plate apparantly if you don't do this the buyer can keep the plate as it officially belongs to the car.Whilst the process was taking place the 90 sold on EBay and the buyer took possesion of it before the tax expired in JULY.

As the V5C had gone to the transfer office in Manchester The buyer could not present a green new owner section from the V5C so in August when he tried to Tax the car his local office DVLA refused to tax it on the grounds it was still registered to me but they knew the plate transfer was in progress as he was told that by them ,they said he could tax the vehicle as soon as the new V5C was issued to me with a new registration number.

With it so far?

I received my transferred plate two weeks later for my new car but there was no problem here as the car was taxed till November when I bought it.

A week later I received the new V5C for the 90 and it was the original first reg number .I signed the V5C and immediatly sent it to the buyer so he could at least tax the car he had not been allowed to use for three weeks.

Last Friday I received a £80 fixed penalty and £18 back duty for not Sorning the 90 Lexus ,the notice carried the new registration number and not the private plate number so we are now getting into crystal ball territory.How can I Sorn a vehicle with a registration I don't know and I can't sorn a vehicle that is taxed,niether can I Sorn a vehicle that I don't own and don't even have knowledge of its whereabouts

I protested vehemently but too no avail.

According to them they only have an application for tax from the new owner and have not received the V5C making me the culprit for not sending in the V5C . which is not what the original offence was, I have been assured by the new owner that he did send off the V5C and I have no reason to doubt his word.

The crazy part of all this is that when I asked about the back duty they said they were letting me off that sum as they know I was'nt in possesion of the car .The person I had to pay offered to send a dispute pack but I believe whatever is said in my defence this matter is cut and dried as far as they are concerned and just another way of fleecing us and driving the innocent to dispise Government departments.

The whole issue as left a nasty taste in my mouth as I endeavoured to do things by the book and did my upmost to get the buyer on the road as fast as possible,despite the cumbersome way the DVLA work.

There is sadly only one way out of this and it involves an awful lot of work from you.

First write to them and list in a logical order the list of events including dates and times with as much detail as you can remember.

Send it to them by recorded delivery and wait.

Remember one very important thing if they go to court its down to them to prove your guilty and not you proving yourself innocent.

Should you get a reply from them unless they are asking for more evidence that you have forgotten to tell them in the first instance just send them your first letter again by recorded delivery, that's very important with any dealings these days with the DVLA, if I send them anything these days its always recorded delivery.

You know you have a fight on your hands but don't get uptight only write to them when you are in a calm mood and don't let it wind you up, keep it to the facts and remember you are not writing a letter to your favorite aunt so keep it tight to the point and concise.

One other thing to remember is that you are now dealing with a private company and they are interested in making profits and not wasting time, efforts and monies on cases that wont produce a profit for them.

They will probably not even read your first letter it will go straight into the bin.

They will send you letters threatening all sorts on headed noted paper that looks very official don't fall for it, they have no more power to wield than you or I do.

To get monies from you they have to take you to court and a judge will decide on the balance of evidence presented as to whether you are guilty or not. Only a judge can issue Bailiff warrants and that cant be done until you have been to the court and then only if you have not complied with the judges direction and judgement.

This is a County Court which is a Civil Court and not a criminal court

Believe you me if what you tell me is exactly what happened after a while they will get fed up with it and you wont hear anymore, not even an apology.

Good luck and keep us informed how you get on.

Mike

Mike

Your opening line says it all I just can't be mithered, I have negotiated a reduction to £40 for prompt payment and taken it as a lesson learnt .I only brought it to the club members attention to warn anybody else who is planning to do this exercise of the pitfalls.

[Bluesman]

Sorry to hear that.

Mike

[ambermarine]

Sorry to hear that.

Mike

Hi Mike

Just to clarify a couple of things.

The original notice is accompanied with a space on the back that you are expected to send back with your reasons for not agreeing with the charge,this was sent back with what as been stated above .There is also a telephone number with a rider stating not to call if you are disputing this charge the form they send also as a rider saying don't bother sending it back unless you have received official notice from them that you have sold the vehicle.All options erased before you get off the blocks.I did send the notice back and yesterday got a reply from the chief enforcer saying that I am a bad boy and just pay the penalty.

The reasons stated were ;The onus is on me to send the V5C back and not a third party now assuming that this V5C as got lost in the post it is my honesty that as got me in trouble ,according to the buyer he has still not received his new V5C 5 weeks on he obviously received the V5C from me as he used the new keepers section to tax the car

As I spend the first three months of the year overseas I did'nt want this dragging on and into court proceedings that I may not have been here to address.

I do not normally roll over this easily but you win some and lose some and in life generally I consider myself a winner so I'll just mark this one up as a home goal.

[Parrot of Doom]

All this by the government just so everyone has a paper disc in their car. The simple solution would be to eliminate VED and add the difference onto the price of fuel, but Wales needs those useless idiots doing something...

[ambermarine]

Smacks of MALADMINISTRATION and I would at least tell them this and that you are going to insist that this course is pursued unless they take the sensible route and cancel the whole nonsense.

I would always refer the issue to a more senior officer and then upwards and onwards to an even more senior officer until you eventually get satisfaction.

I predict that they will decide to give in before the maladministration angle takes effect !

Try it at least.

Malc

There is no recourse to a senior officer in this procedure the Sorn enforcement office is based in Newcastle and the forms have been written and designed to stop any protest apart from official directorates slanted in their favour, you cannot call and protest on the phone.

If you do write to them they just quote chapter and verse and behave like the KGB.

The threats of county court judgements ,debtors lists, your car clamped or crushed headline their first communication designed to frighten the s~~~ out of law abiding citizens but laughed at by the criminal sector that this department was set up to address.

Yet again the Government mandarins have managed to create another department that alienates the general law abiding public.

[steve2006]

I once forgot to reSORN a Rover 800 I had that I was repairing over a period of time, apparently I received a renewal notice before the 12 months expired but couldn't remember receiving it.

A month later I received a fixed penalty notice for failing to renew.

Despite my protests that the car was parked on private land and had no engine in it I still had to pay the fine albeit reduced to £40.00.

Things are only going to get worse when the government has closed all the local offices and face to face contact is eliminated completely.

You made the unfortunate error of not sending the V5C back to the DVLA complete except for the new owners slip yourself by Special Delivery.

Because we are charged by the DVLA for registration plate retention that went ahead with no problems strangely enough!

[ambermarine]

I once forgot to reSORN a Rover 800 I had that I was repairing over a period of time, apparently I received a renewal notice before the 12 months expired but couldn't remember receiving it.

A month later I received a fixed penalty notice for failing to renew.

Despite my protests that the car was parked on private land and had no engine in it I still had to pay the fine albeit reduced to £40.00.

Things are only going to get worse when the government has closed all the local offices and face to face contact is eliminated completely.

You made the unfortunate error of not sending the V5C back to the DVLA complete except for the new owners slip yourself by Special Delivery.

Because we are charged by the DVLA for registration plate retention that went ahead with no problems strangely enough!

Yes Steve

I made the unfortunate error of not being an out and out S##t as doing what I did I thought I was helping the guy who had not been able to use the car for the three weeks because the DVLA would,nt let him TAX it although they were well aware that he legitimatly owned it ,it was insured as when he bought it from me it was still taxed. If I had sent in the V5C without his signature as the new keeper that would have caused another delay for God knows how long and he still would not have use of the car.

The process of transferring a Personalised plate from one vehicle to another is riddled with anomolies which the DVLA have tried to address with the simple precedence that you cannot sell the vehicle whilst the registration transfer is taking place, well the problems there are many fold because of the various departments of the DVLA that get involved and obviously don't speak to each other.

And you also have the unholy experience of some government jobsworth being in charge of the timetable of your private business of buying or selling your car.

The DVLA must be the most publicly reviled Government organisation as I hav'nt spoken to anyone yet about my issue who has'nt had an issue of some type with them.

[steve2006]

Don't get me started, when I passed my driving test in 1976 you paid £5.00 for your green full licence and that was it until you were 70.

Along comes the meddling EU who now require all drivers to have photocard licences which have to be renewed every 10 years, but I have already paid for my licence up to 70 " It's EU regulations not ours" They failed to mention they can now rip us all off again for something we have already and in good faith paid for!

Also remember when a duplicate logbook was also free and simple to understand and if you wanted to cut your car into a million pieces you could declaring it as scrap.

There is far too much information stored by too many people these days.

BTW DVLA staff, I go 3-4 times a week and generally use Andrex

[Bluesman]

I think this is a lesson to all who send anything to the DVLA by post is to make sure it goes Recorded Delivery this way they cannot say they didn't receive it. Most of the DVLA post goes missing unless sent by Recorded Delivery.

The monies they want from you are not a fine, only a Magistrates court upwards can issue fines all they are sending you is an invoice and that is all it is, no matter what they like to call it its an invoice.

It is a shame we don't stand up and fight more for our rights and start fighting back against these obnoxious people who are nothing more than blood sucking, dictatorial, bigoted parasites,

Mike

[Malc]

Alternatively I suppose one can take stuff directly to the DVLA offices ? That's unless they have now closed all the local one's down .

I remember going to the local one in Maidstone Kent when I was a car dealer ..... that way I knew without a doubt that they had everything that I gave them and we could resolve any issues on the spot.

Malc

[ambermarine]

Alternatively I suppose one can take stuff directly to the DVLA offices ? That's unless they have now closed all the local one's down .

I remember going to the local one in Maidstone Kent when I was a car dealer ..... that way I knew without a doubt that they had everything that I gave them and we could resolve any issues on the spot.

Malc

Malc you need to read the text ,the visit to the DVLA local office was made right at the beginning of this scenario and we acted on their advice,after that it was all dealt with through the post because we were waiting for them to do their job.

[Malc]

Woops, sorry, age related misreading.

Malc

[Keith Bowler]

Mike

If you still want to follow up yor problem with DVLA have a look here for advice www.pepipoo.com

[Bluesman]

Mike

If you still want to follow up yor problem with DVLA have a look here for advice www.pepipoo.com

Good call I had forgotten that site, well worth a look.

Mike Bluesman

[ambermarine]

Mike

If you still want to follow up yor problem with DVLA have a look here for advice www.pepipoo.com

hi Kieth

Just back from the pub vented my frustrations on all and sundry and created another regiment of anti-DVLA with the amount of earache, know what I mean? of course you do.

I appreciate your input but to be perfectly honest I at this moment don,t give a S### .

I like all of us in this club are superior to these plebs that run these so called public service organisations that spend our money persecuting us out of envy.

Good luck to them in there sad non productive jobs waiting for the next government cut that throws them on the scrapheap of life.

I have been honest and hardworking all of my life and have a fine lifestyle that I see as a reward for that.The reason for the initial post was to warn everyone that we have a pernicous layer of Mandarins that are out to fleece the unwary under the Governments cloak of authority.

[Bluesman]

Mike

If you still want to follow up yor problem with DVLA have a look here for advice www.pepipoo.com

hi Kieth

Just back from the pub vented my frustrations on all and sundry and created another regiment of anti-DVLA with the amount of earache, know what I mean? of course you do.

I appreciate your input but to be perfectly honest I at this moment don,t give a S### .

I like all of us in this club are superior to these plebs that run these so called public service organisations that spend our money persecuting us out of envy.

Good luck to them in there sad non productive jobs waiting for the next government cut that throws them on the scrapheap of life.

I have been honest and hardworking all of my life and have a fine lifestyle that I see as a reward for that.The reason for the initial post was to warn everyone that we have a pernicous layer of Mandarins that are out to fleece the unwary under the Governments cloak of authority.

Regarding government cuts, especially within not just central government but also local government in the so called administration departments, you would have an almost impossible task of finding anyone that has lost their job in these hard times within those gold plated halls of excess and theft from us the tax payers that has actually been made redundant and I am not talking about the local OAP rest home that actually produce something by way of a service these parasites are there purely for administration and to make up ways of producing even more ways of administration.

If a department is closed down down to make it look as though they have done their bit, those within that department are just found different departments to go and hide in.

This country stinks of government dishonesty, excess and self gratification, the sort of government they are quite happy to turn round and criticise foreign governments for but its OK for them to do exactly the same to us.

End of rant off on me hols.

Mike