Thinking Of Buying Is 220D Is It Really That Bad?

[suprasport]

Hi everyone,

Im seriously wanting to buy the is 220d se L maybe a sport, but keep hearing so many bad reporst about gears and road noise, especially on what car.

I love the look of the car inside and out and gadgets are great, but hate the road noise on last 2 cars. Im not after amazingly fast and whlst it would be good to rip bm's up i can live without it, knowing i have a supra on the drive.

I really want to like this and not have any worries about the above, but dont want to get stuck with something i will live to regret either. I will test drive first but never find it the same as owning one. The only other car i like at the moment is the insignia looks wise and in my price bracket which is very much more practical but very much not a lexus either. Mpg good which is on my list as quite a few miles to do regularly soon. But anything is compared to the rover 75 (30mpg combined) knockabout im in at the moment.

Anyone had any of the following that could compare lexus noise and gears to etc.?

Freelander 1.8 very noisy

Rover 75 1.8 noisy but comfy

celica vti average on both

[jason61c]

Ignore what car, I've just bought one, its got less road noise than any other car in its class, and I include A6 2.7 tdi's and 530D's, I think the 18" wheels cause some tire noise on the sport.

MPG is good for a 2.2 tonne car, over my first tank of mixed driving(no motorway yet) I've got 500 miles out of a tank and and average of 39.something over the lot. I think it under reads slightly, where my last audi's always over estimated MPG. Everyone who's been in it comments on what a nice place it is to be and how nice the ride quality is, for me its the right balance of body control and comfort.

Get a good one and you can't go wrong.

[Sterling]

Very simple. If you do in excess of 10,000 miles a year and fuel costs are important, buy the IS220 manual. If fuel cost is not an issue, buy the IS250 auto. Whatever you buy, make sure it has a full Lexus Dealer service history.

The car is in a different league to the others you mention. Dealer support is generally very good and Lexus as a manufacturer are miles better than others at acknowledging and dealing with issues.

As Jason says, cars with 18” wheels can give a firm and slightly noisy ride but it is still miles quieter than the Celica. All in all a reliable, refined and class leading car to drive.

[suprasport]

Thank you for the replies.

Thought i had email notifications set for this topic. just those 2 comments have put my mind at ease.

Just got to wait for a blue 220d se-L with multimedia and cream leather now for the right money.

Good job im patient haha.

[Ala Larj]

Had an IS 220D for just over a year now and can safely say it's the best car I've had. Prior to this had a Volvo which had great comfy seats but more engine and wind noise than the Lexus. Have recently spent 8 hours at the wheel driving back from central France and not an ache to be had. The only time it can be noisy is on concrete motorways but not excessively so. I have 17 inch wheel. Would definitely recommend. And dealers are second to none.

[bluenose1940]

I've had my 220d for almost a year now and it is without doubt the best car I have ever owned. real quality, I just love getting into it and closing the door, sounds really solid. Comfort is superb, MPG is great after cleaning the EGR Valve and, I just love all the goodies on it.

The only reason that I am looking to change mine (to an IS250 SE-L Multimedia) is because I just do not do enough annual mileage to justify having the diesel and so am concerned at the possibility of problems arising from this in the future.

The comments made by Sterling and jason61c are very valid

Enjoy it when you get it.

[briatore]

Check for any signs of the head gasket problem. If the car has anything but the pink coolant, walk away. If the pink coolant is too dark or smells like exhaust fumes, walk away.

Test drive the car or ask the owner to drive hard and up a mountain if there is one near you and check if it lost any coolant through the pressure release hose on the coolant tank, near the cap. You can tell if any of it went out by checking for wet patches or coolant spray on the engine (it drips onto the fan behind the radiator). Drive it for at least a hundred kilometers whichever way you like and then check if the coolant level changed. If the car lost any, walk away. Check the oil. If it's anything but normal, both in level and colour, walk away. Check the acceleration and the way the car runs. Drive it at 40 mph or 60 kmh in fourth for a few seconds at least and then try to accelerate. If it loses power instead of pulling, you can expect poor mileage per gallon. Check the clutch. If it jumps or jitters when changing gears (especially down), it could soon develop problems with the flywheel. If you find a car that has none of the problems described above, you'll be very happy. It's a wonderful masterpiece of world-class engineering that will probably please you far beyond your expectations. Just don't try to save money on it. Use good fuel and good oil and change filters regularly. :)

[dr j]

I own a 2006 IS 220d Sport, right now I have 247 000 kms. The car is not perfect by far and I have had my headaches, but searching around you´ll find alot of diesels using Diesel Particulate Filters, EGR etc have problems. Clean diesels mean that high mileage diesels aren´t as simple as they were in the days of a Mercedes E 190d.

What have I done to the car?

Had a problem with the EGR, had it replaced then I had it blocked off.

The EGR is hooked up to the Oil Breather inlet, and the Oil breather tube now goes to a catch tank.

The Check VSC kept lighting up, the error was DPF related (this at about 200 000 kms), I tried Diesel additives (some success), had Lexus do a DPF regeneration by programming the 5th injector, and this cleaned out alot of the soot, however the error kept appearing.

I had the DPF cleaned with a Wurth product applied directly to the DPF, and the soot was destroyed, the error disappeared and I have already put 300 kms on after the application. This will become part of my routine maintenance until the DPF dies.

As for the rest, regular oil changes, filter changes and a recent paint touch up and the car runs fine. One set of rotors, three sets of brake pads.

So no, it´s not a gasoline vehicle, it´s not as fast as a BM or Audi, has slightly poorer mileage than it´s German rivals, however apart from diesel-related issues it is a very good car.

247 000 kms, I´d say that makes it a damn fine car!

Cheers

[Carl911]

Hi everyone,

Im seriously wanting to buy the is 220d se L maybe a sport, but keep hearing so many bad reporst about gears and road noise, especially on what car.

I love the look of the car inside and out and gadgets are great, but hate the road noise on last 2 cars. Im not after amazingly fast and whlst it would be good to rip bm's up i can live without it, knowing i have a supra on the drive.

I really want to like this and not have any worries about the above, but dont want to get stuck with something i will live to regret either. I will test drive first but never find it the same as owning one. The only other car i like at the moment is the insignia looks wise and in my price bracket which is very much more practical but very much not a lexus either. Mpg good which is on my list as quite a few miles to do regularly soon. But anything is compared to the rover 75 (30mpg combined) knockabout im in at the moment.

Anyone had any of the following that could compare lexus noise and gears to etc.?

Freelander 1.8 very noisy

Rover 75 1.8 noisy but comfy

celica vti average on both

I also come from a supra to Lexus. After my supra TT.s leginary reliability I wanted another Japanese motor.

Obviously you cannot compare the two but despite its few short comings it's still a lovely car to drive, particularly on motorway runs where you can't really tell its diesel anyway.

A lot of the EGR problems are just as bad on the other cars such as BMW as I had a 330d before and had to carry out similar maintenance.

I also think the Lexus is a lovely looking car.

As has a.ready been said, buy a good, well serviced car and it's as reliable if not more so than any other brand.

Carl

[YTL2000]

Hi,

Coming from the 1.4 K series in MGR cars, then having a 1.6, a 1.8 then finally the 1.8VVC, an Audi A3 1.8T Sport and a 61 plate Seat Exeo 2.0TDI, I can only describe the 220d as a diesel car which requires a NASP driving technique. The K series is a VERY clakky injectors and ALL K series cars I have seen all had the same issue regardless of engine age/rebuild. Also, Rovers and Freelander arent great build quality and the metal, plastic trim etc just seems cheap and thin. The Lexus is MUCH quieter!

When compared the to Seat 2.0TDI (same engine used in the VAG group cars), it definitely does not want to go or move as much (or at all) just by being in the gear you would normally be in i.e 4th gear at 30mph. To over come this, I have had to adjust the way I drive and now, when in town and below 45 ish, I will go no higher than 3rd gear inorder to maintain power and mpg. Sticking to this makes the car MUCH more driveable and you can indeed feel the torque that is available. The engine on the Seat is quite loud inside the car, so although people complain that the 220d can be loud in the cold and the heaters are on, the noise refinement better than the Seat.

When compared to the Audi 1.8T, again the pick up is slower, but due to the power available, the Lexus is a much more fun car to drive especially when the turbo kicks in.

Compared to the 1.8VVC Rover, there was not much of a response when you put you foot down but after a second, you can feel the power swell and you start shifting. Like the VVC unit, you have to keep it in the power band, pretend you have 1 less gear than you actually do and your "laughing" as they say. This is where my comparison for driving it like a nasp comes in. I would have compared it to the standard 18 block but these are much smoother than the VVC in power delivery.

In regards to comfort, refinement etc the Lexus wins hands down especially with all the toys that it comes with, however, I can not comment at all on long term ownership as I have only had it for 3 weeks.

When buying the 220d, I too looked at Mercedes C220, Audi A4 and BMW 3 and 5 series but over all when you weigh up looks, toys, and the fact that every other nobber on the road is in a German mobile, the Lexus is a more attractive option. Since I have purchased it, I have had no regrets but would suggest.

The ONLY thing that bugs me on the lists that people post up is the crack from the center console - well more surprises me but with the music on, you dont notice it.

Hope that helps,

Tom

[normski2]

This 'crack' sound is the subject of a recall and fix by Lexus. I sweet talked my local dealership into doing it...give it a try. I was told it emanates from the movement between two plastic components that expand differently as they warm. That's why it always occurs after the engine has warmed for a while from cold.

It is quite alarming and sounds very much like someone has just fired a pellet at the windscreen. I think the fix involved the insertion of a couple of spacer washers.

If you get nowhere then as a last resort you could take out the centre console. But you would need to know the exact nature of the fix and precisely where fitted. It is a little fiddly but if you follow the instruction guide you can remove and replace the lot in about 2 hours at first attempt. I just did it on a 07 220d a few weeks back to remove a redundant Nokia cradle.

[dr j]

The problem is that Lexus vehicles in general are tops in JD Power rankings. The IS 220d brought out problems that no vehicle with a Lexus badge came close to having in it the company´s 23 years of existence. Lexus vehicles are dead quiet and very smooth, they have more than enough power and issues related to dirty diesel simply didn´t exist. People don´t love the IS 220d because it´s a diesel, they love it because it´s an IS. They chose diesel because of Europe´s ludicrous prices.

That aside, they have done a very decent job with this car. The German equivalents outsell, but most are low spec vehicles (cloth interior, <177 hp tuned engines, almost no extras). I have friends with BMs, Audi´s, Mercedes, all have issues, some are major. Their forums are filled with horror stories that make a busted head gasket seem like cake. The IS 220d will be remembered as a less than perfect Lexus, but a very good car. And let´s face it, we´re here because we love Lexus vehicles and if a 220d was the car we could afford to buy and keep, then that was the Lexus for Europe. I think however that diesel will die out over the long run. Emissions in oilburners are controlled through complex gas recycling, particulate filters and CAT converters that will get more complex over time and will break down sooner and sooner.

My car has it´s original DPF and I am as of right now the highest mileage IS 220d in Portugal with an original DPF (247 000 kms).

I love the car, I knew what to expect, I will never again buy a diesel, but I will forever own a Lexus. The diesel was the price I paid for having a car to drive every day in Europe. The next one will be hybrid. German cars? Overrated, especially the BMW´s. To get to 250 000 kms I would have had to go through two 320 d´s in parts.

So if you like it, buy it, know what to expect, and remember that diesel is what it is, a dirty alternative. But the IS 220d is worth it.

[Silver Arrow]

I had a IS220d. 2.5 years of problems, recalls, rattles etc etc. Then a BMW diesel. 4 years no problems....so its not that simple. The BMW drives so much better than the notchy lexus gearbox. BMW still going strong!! And 10-15mpg more!

[dr j]

@Silver Arrow - You are absolutely right, no it´s not as simple as that. My gearbox is the sport version and it´s anything but notchy. The "normal" version is long and useless for normal driving. I sincerely hope your BMW lives a healthy life. Three colleagues dumped their 320´s after about 120k kms - all had to have new turbos, one had DPF issues and kept going into limp mode. All complained of the poor build quality. One had a tail light fail driving out of the lot. The 3L diesel holds up alot better over time. Back then, after testing the competition, the only car I crossed off the list was the 320d - just too common and poorly built to justify the price. However, each person has his own story and I hope yours works out as well as mine has so far. I feel that as a company BMW reached a point of such mass sales that they simply ******* on their customers.

As a point of comparison last July I went back home and dropped by Calgary. In Canada you don´t see alot of BMW´s, but you count about 40 Lexus an hour and about 100 Toyotas. Audi´s and to a lesser extent Mercedes sell very well. Dropped by the dealership and saw just how well they treat their customers. Customer service was extremely polite and very informed. They knew about the IS 220d, asked me about it and we traded opinions on everything from gasoline vs diesel and vehicle tastes in each continent.

As a fan of vehicles, I only wish Europe had more options.

I´ll be around here for awhile with my high mileage IS 220d, with pics coming soon, just to keep the bashers in their place :P

[Shepherd]

mines at 110K miles now. I fell in love with this car when I saw it the first time but was only able to afford it much later. Bought it at about 55k so have driven about 55k in 2.5 years or ownership.

airbag light comes on and off and back of the mind the head gasket problem still bothers a bit as it could show any time specially the car is now out of the manufacturers warranty. Other than that its been a delight to keep. The only thing that I had to fix in the last 2.5 years was a rear shock absorber that I got a replacement of eaby for £70 (used) and £10 fitted.

given a chance to go back in time, I may have gone for the 250 instead

[dr j]

The IS 250 has its problems, I just don´t think it is a good car for Europe. It´s considered entry level in North America for a business car, almost a fleet car, in Europe it´s overpriced. In Portugal is outrageously priced (60 k euros new, which in a poor economy means NO sales) The IS 250 awd and IS 350 are the Award Winners, but Europe will never get a sniff of them. The head gasket issue is common on Forums, I have never heard of one here, mind you only 4 of my colleagues have IS 220d´s

THE major issue is the EGR. A properly done bypass will eliminate that problem. The DPF is what is it. Proper fuel, occassional additives and some highway driving to keep it as clean as possible. I do not recommend removing it as some low end tuners suggest. It´s there to reduce pollution, let´s try to keep the environment as clean as we can :)

So far I have 1300 kms without any error on the dash after cleaning the DPF. An oil maintenance light came one. That can be erased easily by pressing the odometer button on the dash with the car off, then simultaneously pressing the START button twice (ignition lights on without starting the car). It resets itself and the light disappears.

Cheers and happy new year to everyone in the UK.

[surfer06]

Hi suprasport and everyone else. I am a new Lexus IS220d owner and thought I'd give my input for what it's worth!

Bought my car in October 2012, a 2006 (06) reg with 59k on it and FSH and paid £7495 with independent 5 year warranty. Previous car was a 54 plate Audi A6 2.0 TDi and fancied a change. After reading post's on this forum and driving for a few weeks thought I'd made a big mistake.

Main concerns were MPG - initially around 43, now around 47 (approx 570 miles on a full tank)/ (Audi was returning around 49-50) and reading about all the problems in this forum. Got to the stage where I thought on trading in for 57 Mondeo for same price as purchased. I was shocked to learn I would only receive £5500 tops after 4 weeks of driving, £2000 loss was not what I expected from a Lexus, supposed to be slow depreciation!

I am now warming to the car, very comfortable/ smooth and quiet to drive (little road noise even compared to the Audi). MPG has improved - added some BG244 and AR6200 fuel additive. Gear change takes some getting used to, have had to change my driving style as others have mentioned. I do use 6th gear over 60 though sometimes the engine feels as though it's struggling a little and just ticking over! May see about getting EGR cleaned as mentioned in other posts.

Lovely looking car - silvery blue. Anyone I have given a lift to remarks on the looks and how comfortable it is, if only the MPG was better. As someone else mentioned forget about paying a few extra £££'s per month on fuel and enjoy the drive.

I cover around 260 miles per week with around 10% town/ 20% motorway and 70% A country roads. Good luck with your choice, if you get a well looked after one hopefully you'll reap the benefits.

[normski2]

I am pleased for you...genuinely. You have done the right things in your short ownership. The 5 yr warranty is a good move. You are doing OK at 47 mpg. Best I got was 52-54 driving Scotland to Bournemouth or in France!

Forget 6th gear it is useless to you, stick with 5 th and use cruise control on longer journeys. Give it a good wellying every now and then to keep the 5th injector working properly and to assist the regeneration of the DPF.

Just keep an eye on your oil filler cap and water reservoir...please, it will pay you to.

It is a very comfortable car and goes fab on the motor way. OK it's a bit noisy on tick over....find me a diesel that isn't....unless it is wrapped in sound proofing.

[surfer06]

Thanks normski2, appreciate vote of support. Still trying to convince myself I've made the right decision in the long run. One niggling question I have is.... if the 220d is as problematic as a lot of the members make out re cylinder head, engines blowing, EGR etc. why do they keep coming top or around the top in motoring surveys? I just can't fathom this one out.

[Dromara1974]

47 mpg!! That is very much the exception and not the rule.

Those of us who complain about mpg are not getting anywhere near that, so I feel that we do have a right to complain; particularly if we do in excess of 15k per year and achieve petrol mpg figures.....or worse!

I would safely say that you have got a good one, as you wouldn't obtain that mpg figure from a dud and nor would you pull 60 mph in 6th - no way! I would think that your EGR will prove pretty clean, as you would notice the poor performance.

I haven't looked at the JD Power surveys closely, but I will try and find some as the IS just can't have received good reports - no chance! The surveys only cover cars below 2/3 years, so within the warranty period. I worked for Mercedes Benz when they were getting crucified in the surveys, and yet I don't think a C class from that period was worse than a currrent IS - rust notwithstanding!

I remember driving 1st gen 1 IS200s and they always felt really, really tight, regardless of mileage and condition. It pains me to say it, but the 2nd generation does have better materials (superficially at least), but the exacting build is absent. I do, however, agree that an IS does look good and the image gets a 'thumbs up' from most of my friends/family.

[normski2]

47 mpg!! That is very much the exception and not the rule.

Those of us who complain about mpg are not getting anywhere near that, so I feel that we do have a right to complain; particularly if we do in excess of 15k per year and achieve petrol mpg figures.....or worse!

I would safely say that you have got a good one, as you wouldn't obtain that mpg figure from a dud and nor would you pull 60 mph in 6th - no way! I would think that your EGR will prove pretty clean, as you would notice the poor performance.

I haven't looked at the JD Power surveys closely, but I will try and find some as the IS just can't have received good reports - no chance! The surveys only cover cars below 2/3 years, so within the warranty period. I worked for Mercedes Benz when they were getting crucified in the surveys, and yet I don't think a C class from that period was worse than a currrent IS - rust notwithstanding!

I remember driving 1st gen 1 IS200s and they always felt really, really tight, regardless of mileage and condition. It pains me to say it, but the 2nd generation does have better materials (superficially at least), but the exacting build is absent. I do, however, agree that an IS does look good and the image gets a 'thumbs up' from most of my friends/family.

I sympathise with your poor mpg return. It really does seem that there are good ones and bad ones. I certainly would not deny your right to complain...as it is undoubtedly very frustrating to see much better figures achieved elsewhere by the same engine. I have a friend(who has a garage) who had a sport 220d that only gave him 28 around town and 36 driving really carefully on a run. He was gutted to see 46 on my display(std 220d) and took it out to drive it himself.

[John Davies 1969]

My IS220D summary of faults....

Main bug bears:

• Turbo lag (fixed with diesel tuning box).
  
• 5th injector and EGR problems.
  
• Unusable 6th gear.
  
• Agricultural engine and gearbox.
  
• Gearbox had to be replaced as it would not stay in second gear, constantly jumping out. (replacement gear box had same problem to a lesser extent in first gear).
  
• Noisey gearbox, both gearboxes in my lexus had a whine associated with them - if engine revved in neutral smell of burning as box not completely disengaged.
  
• Serpentine belt bearing failure.
  
• Windscreen wipers ineffective.
  
• No reverse parking sensors (even though they installed heated seats and 13 speaker sound system as standard)
  
• Once the Battery went flat and the car was locked out, asked Lexus for help, they said bring it to a lexus garage (would have cost a fortune for their time and transport of car), internet said follow some simple instructions and imobiliser worked/reset again.
  

These count as one problem:

• A faulty oxygen sensor in the exhaust
  
• DPF filter blocked or out of range as measured by the DP sensor
  

Under both conditions above the car enters limp mode - this is EXTREMELY dangerous on a busy dual carriageway loss of all power can be a killer. Happened to me at 5.00AM in fog on the A90 I had to let the car crawl to the nearest layby all the while traffic nearly rear ending me. Then switch engine off and on again and full power for another 5 or six miles before going back to limp mode. All this danger for two superficial sensor warnings. The only way to clear DPF is to screw the engine, all the while having to deal with the dangerous limp mode.

[Jules PF]

I do 15k a year and have thus had many deisels. However with all of them, Mercedes, Bmws and Jaguars I've had problems with egrs, fuel filter, fuel ines, injectors and turbos. Now they also have the dreaded dpf to add to the mix. A few years ago I turned away from diesel and haven't looked back. Now i'm on a Lexus IS 250 sel and love the thing. Smooth quiet and cheap to maintain and service. The clickety clacker is a thing of the past!

I look at all the posts in the engine transmission section on this site, literally all of them are about the 220d! Many seem to report terrible mpg, anywhere from 25-35. I get an average of 33mpg from my 250. With these modern diesels is it really a cost saving all things considered?

[dr j]

I do 15k a year and have thus had many deisels. However with all of them, Mercedes, Bmws and Jaguars I've had problems with egrs, fuel filter, fuel ines, injectors and turbos. Now they also have the dreaded dpf to add to the mix. A few years ago I turned away from diesel and haven't looked back. Now i'm on a Lexus IS 250 sel and love the thing. Smooth quiet and cheap to maintain and service. The clickety clacker is a thing of the past!

I look at all the posts in the engine transmission section on this site, literally all of them are about the 220d! Many seem to report terrible mpg, anywhere from 25-35. I get an average of 33mpg from my 250. With these modern diesels is it really a cost saving all things considered?

Withing the range of Lexus vehicles you made the right choice. That´s why they killed the diesel. If you value comfort over MPG and handling, it is an excellent choice. But even in the gasoline vehicle world, there are better options and far easier to maintain in Europe. European love for diesels only to remove DPF´s, put in tuning chips and squeeze out laughable horsepower with overburdened engines thanks to turbos has always confused me. A naturally aspirated V6 running on gasoline vs a four banger running on diesel and spewing black smoke is a no brainer.

In my case, gasoline is not an option due to the taxation in Portugal. Hybrid is probably the only sensible option, unfortunately the CVT gearbox is causing major issues and the new line of vehicles is hideous.

As long as you´re happy you made the right choice.

I made the wrong choice and have been lucky.