Justice?

tdiplc · July 17, 2003

What about the two "British Citizens" captured by the Yanks fighting for the Taliban in Afganistan?

Should they be brought home, tried and maybe jailed at the tax payers expense, or left to the mercy of the US military courts?

DaveEllen · July 17, 2003

Let the americans deal with them.........

They were not there (afganistan) on a 18-30 holiday

Monster-Mat · July 17, 2003

shoot the ******ers, leaving them to live isnt justice

Matthew_McNally · July 17, 2003

I am afraid I consider the phrase "American Miltary Justice" an oxymoron.

I have no sympathy for these two - but do not consider a miltary trial to be justice.

justin.cockett · July 17, 2003

The cost of trying and punishing criminals is forever rising and it is becoming unaffordable to house these people in prisons in a high cost country like the UK.

I have a simple solution....

Many private companies have or are looking at cheaper alternatives for their call centre and back-office functions. India and South Africa jump to mind in these cases.

Why not sub-contract our suspects to courts and prisons in third world countries, perhaps Afghanistan, Iraq, some African states? The benefit would be a big cost reduction to the UK taxpayer in housing these people, valuable foreign income for poorer countries, the possibility of an incentive against crime…. and with a bit of luck the scumbags may never come back!

Just and idea....

Justin.

PS: Oh...... hang on...... I think we used to do this......

DJensen · July 17, 2003

Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?? Is that not the corner stone of any civilised democratic country!

Before we label these guys criminals, let’s remember that no evidence of any wrong doing has (as yet) been presented against either of them. Oh sorry, I forgot the Americans have branded them 'unlawful combatants' and so they must be guilty!!!..... Yeah right, like the yanks never twist the truth for their own benefit!!....Are you watching\reading any quality news at the moment??

Learn the facts.

After the Afghan war the Northern Alliance rounded up all foreigners and handed them to the Americans as they (the Americans) paid a bounty for each head the Alliance could hand over. They were taken to Guantanamo primarily for interrogation; naturally many innocents were caught in this web. Only today 11 so called terrorists were released from Guantanamo and returned to Pakistan.....without any charge!!!

One of the British detainees was in fact a teacher and had gone to Afghanistan to run a small school (with his wife) helping to educate kids which have known nothing but war (you can look this up). Was he entirely innocent? I genuinely don't know...however he deserves the right to a fair trial like any human being. Why is it the American Taliban got to have a trial in America?? Are Brits not entitled to the same justice?

Before talking about costs to the UK tax payer of incarceration, bear in mind these wars have so far cost the UK 5 billion quid (and a number of our soldier's lives).... 9\11 was a despicable act, but this wasn't our fight!!! Did the yanks ever steam into Ireland??? Or cease funding via NORAID to the IRA...We've been bombed and killed by them for decades!!

Unless you're willing seek more informed sources of information and develop the ability to form measured and balanced opinions on such matters, I suggest you stick to chatting about super chargers and tyres etc on this forum.

dlayen · July 17, 2003

shoot the ******ers, leaving them to live isnt justice
here here!!!!

TonyGoose · July 18, 2003

Before talking about costs to the UK tax payer of incarceration, bear in mind these wars have so far cost the UK 5 billion quid (and a number of our soldier's lives).... 9 was a despicable act, but this wasn't our fight!!! Did the yanks ever steam into Ireland??? Or cease funding via NORAID to the IRA...We've been bombed and killed by them for decades!!

Not gonna comment on the guilty / not guilty bit...

Just a couple of small comments though :-

Yes. 9/11 was pretty bad. And the connection with Iraq is what exactly ???

I thought that was down to Mr Bin Laden and his merry men.

I think the truth is more the US populous expected to see their president kick butt.

( you can see his generals moving the strings which work him if you look carefully ).

Couldn't find Bin Ladens butt to kick but had to hit someone - enter stage left... Iraq.

Trample all over the united nations - naturally the US knows better ...

And for what? To boost the presidents approval rating ?

Then there's president B.Liar... or is it ??

Difficult to tell, all i can see is a pair of ankles hanging out of George W's asse ...

Ok Blair me ole buddy, we goin' in to kick some Iraqi aise... make no mistake.

We'll practice on you guys if that's ok.... Call it friendly fire... Sounds better in the media.

Please don't get me wrong, i have no problem with the american people....

BUT, the 'US' (or it's leadership i guess) as a whole strikes me as extremely arrogant.

Needs a bit of a poke in the eye now and again to put it in it's place.

And a few one liners to finish ...

I wondered when the brits would be allowed to start shooting back..... at the americans !

Because of our spineless lowlife 'leader' (using the term in the loosest possible sense)

many british families are now grieving - and my brother is stuck out in Bazra ....

British and American military intelligence ? If ever there were a contradiction in terms !

British citizens?? Is there such a thing? I'm sure we're 'British Subjects' aren't we ?

UN to US : Can we come in please and look for weapons of mass destruction ...

US to UN : Errr, no - we haven't quite finished installing them yet !

:iraqi-info-minister:

justin.cockett · July 18, 2003

I certainly believe that it important that justice is done. It concerns me greatly what exactly our PM is doing in his abolition of the Lord Chancellor position and the implications for an independent judiciary in this country.

However, I firmly believe that our courts have become far too lenient and many criminals are getting away scot-free or with minor punishment far too often. (Ever done Jury service, it’s a real eye opener!)

At the same time the government and police seem to be criminalising middle England with there unstoppable desire to halt anything that moves on four wheels and for doing 35MPH in parts of the motorway spec A13 and the Limehouse Link tunnel, whilst 30MPH overtaking a school bus outside a primary school is ok according to the speed limits (That’s road safety for you?).

Time the government and the police authorities got their priorities re-aligned or the consequences for relations between the largely police-supportive middle classes and plod will be damaged for many years.

Justin.

uzziz · July 18, 2003

shoot the ******ers, leaving them to live isnt justice

ifraz · July 18, 2003

shoot the ******ers, leaving them to live isnt justice

Hang on a minute...has the fact that they were fighting for the Taliban been proven?...I don't think so

If I didn't know you...I would say that you're an American with the typical yank attitude to justice. No offence mate :winky:

If the Americans deal with trying to prove their involement then they won't get a fair trial. As they're British, maybe they should be put on trial in this country...I don't know

Claire G · July 18, 2003

They're all entitled to a fair trial, that's what happens in civilised countries (supposedly). I don't think they'll get a fair trial in the US, the UK will probably let them off on community service. Find somewhere that will look at the evidence objectively and base a decision on that.

If they're guilty? Then they deserve everything that's coming to them.

dlayen · July 18, 2003

Find somewhere that will look at the evidence objectively and base a decision on that.

as long as it's a country that still has the death sentence

Claire G · July 18, 2003

If they're guilty and the proof is conclusive and 100% fail safe, then yes.

Monster-Mat · July 18, 2003

they were caught working in a bomb factory.........

not one like royal ordanance, but making bombs of the clandestein type

mac · July 18, 2003

Ah yes,there it is -----------napalm anybody?

Monster-Mat · July 19, 2003

Napalm isnt used anymore and hasnt since the mid 70's

just a point though, air/fuel bombs have beenn used by many armys around the world, the only difference between them and the US army, is the fact the Vietnam war was the first televised war, so these scenes were recorded.

War is a tough thing, dont pretend to understand it, if you have watched it, read about it or heard about it.

you have to live it!!

Brian Berry · July 19, 2003

Interesting to see that one new member in his second message is advising how the Lexus web site should be run.

There is room for open and healthy discussion on a variety of topics which hit the news.

My main concern is that they get a fair trial. The big question is where can this be attained?

tdiplc · July 19, 2003

Does anyone know what happened to that idiot from Ilford who was boasting on The News that he was going out to Afganistan to help his Muslim brothers fight The Infidels?

MsW · July 19, 2003

In Saudi, (a muslim country I belive) don't they chop off the hands of thieves, one hand for the first crime, the second for the next, thereby leaving them no hands to thieve with.... and other appropriate parts for other crimes

I wonder what they could come up with for these two, assuming they're found guilty?

Now that WOULD be justice - and all done in the name of their G*d so as not to offend their religious sensitivities