Gs450H Battery Pack Fail

[TUFCed]

A month ago I had my 2006 150,000 GS450h Battery refurbished by Richard at Hybrid Battery Solutions in Northampton. I had all the usual warning lights and a Battery fan on. It cost me £800 and he even took me to/from the station. I have driven over 1000miles since and I am getting a better mpg. Highly recommended. I was quoted £2700 from local lexus dealer.

[ColinBarber]

If you don't have a warranty then going to a dealer with a hybrid Battery issue is a very expensive experience, they won't do anything other than swap out the entire Battery. Luckily there are people like Richard around who can get you back up and running more economically.

[hybridbatterysolutions]

I do my best! 

[Lanternman]

Does anyone know of a conversion to effectively eliminate the hybrid system from my 450h and make it petrol only?

[ColinBarber]

Selling it and buying a petrol model is the only sensible option.

The hybrid system starts the vehicle and powers it in reverse gear. You would need to add a stater motor and alternator to the engine, an automatic transmission, new ECU, new wiring looms etc. etc.

[Lanternman]

Fair enough.  I've already bought an old LS 430 just to see what it's like.  I love the 450h when it works ..... but probably won't bother with hybrid again.

[Britprius]

20 minutes ago, Lanternman said:

Does anyone know of a conversion to effectively eliminate the hybrid system from my 450h and make it petrol only?

The only way to do that "and it would be more expensive than buying a battery" is to fit an standard auto gearbox with torque converter.

Why not refurb the Battery as this could if you DIY bring the cost down to as little as £25 but involves much work. Or better let Richard at Hybrid Battery solutions give you a price to repair it with a guarantee. It will still cost less than selling the car with a bad Battery.

John

[Lanternman]

I shall investigate the power pack Battery further, thank you.  So far nothing explains the complete lack of 12V to the diagnostic circuits.  Any ideas anyone?

[st4]

2 hours ago, Lanternman said:

Fair enough.  I've already bought an old LS 430 just to see what it's like.  I love the 450h when it works ..... but probably won't bother with hybrid again.

That will be harder as time goes on, Lexus are determined to sell hybrids wherever they can and have phased out a lot of non hybrid model lines.

Now you cannot buy an IS, RX, NX, ES (GS replacement) and LS (2018 on) without a hybrid. I am not against them per se, but a conventional drivetrain appeals more to me. 

[Britprius]

20 hours ago, Lanternman said:

I shall investigate the power pack battery further, thank you.  So far nothing explains the complete lack of 12V to the diagnostic circuits.  Any ideas anyone?

This has not been mentioned before. Are you asking why there is no 12 volt feed at the OBD port?

John.

[Lanternman]

My apologies John, a "crossed thread".  My car has a good 12v Battery (12.8V)  and the cells in the power pack add up to 318.2V, all give good volts individually.  There is an open circuit between cells 19 and 20, where the wires are taken out to some controller I guess.  There is no volts on the pack output points.

Is there a fuse / relay somewhere?  Do I need to apply 12V to make something work?  I have checked the master key plug fuse (125A) and it is good.

Any suggestions for nest step?, thank you.

[GavJ]

I just found the video.. https://blog.lexus.co.uk/lexus-hybrid-health-check/

Gobsmacked to see that the heath check covers a year OR 10,000 MILES, who doesn't do more than 10,000 miles in a year? Sales guy at Lexus didn't tell me this!

[Britprius]

2 hours ago, GavJ said:

I just found the video.. https://blog.lexus.co.uk/lexus-hybrid-health-check/

Gobsmacked to see that the heath check covers a year OR 10,000 MILES, who doesn't do more than 10,000 miles in a year? Sales guy at Lexus didn't tell me this!

But you can have a many health checks a year as you need and are free with each 10,000 mile service. This means unlimited millage guarantee until the car is ten years old.

John.

[Britprius]

10 hours ago, Lanternman said:

My apologies John, a "crossed thread".  My car has a good 12v Battery (12.8V)  and the cells in the power pack add up to 318.2V, all give good volts individually.  There is an open circuit between cells 19 and 20, where the wires are taken out to some controller I guess.  There is no volts on the pack output points.

Is there a fuse / relay somewhere?  Do I need to apply 12V to make something work?  I have checked the master key plug fuse (125A) and it is good.

Any suggestions for nest step?, thank you.

The high voltage link between the modules 20, and twenty one (cells 120 and 121) has a fuse built into it. It also has another pair of contacts that are not made until the refitting procedure is completed. After closing the lever the link must be slid up or down or side ways "depending on the links orientation" to close these contacts completing a 12 volt circuit. The modules in the pack have a nominal voltage of 7.2 V, "6 cells" and are arranged in pairs for monitoring purposes called blocks 
The Battery has a nominal voltage of  288 volts. Individual cells cannot be monitored or connected to being totally sealed in the modules in much the same way as cells in a modern 12 volt car Battery. 
There is a 140 amp fuse in the 12 volt positive Battery terminal as well. There are a number of fuses that if blown will not allow a state of ready in the other 12 volt circuits. This is common if the car has been connected in reverse polarity. There are fuses in the main fuse box under the bonnet as well as in the two front foot wells, and also above the 12 volt Battery in the boot. There are two fuses at the positive terminal a low current, and a high current fuse.

There will be no output on the pack terminals as there are three high voltage DC relays in the pack that do not connect until the car is in ready mode unless you are connecting your meter before these relays at the Battery terminals. There will be high voltage at the Battery terminals as long as the safety link is fitted with the lever closed, and it's fuse is intact, but not slid in the required direction to complete the low voltage circuits

John.

[Lanternman]

That's great info John, I found that with the Battery pack out of the car and the safety plug put back in I get 318V across the pack.  Opening the box that hangs beneath the Battery modules I find two 'Control units'.  Do you know of any way to test or measure their status?  I can see one fuse that meters out OK.  Thanks, David

[Britprius]

4 hours ago, Lanternman said:

That's great info John, I found that with the battery pack out of the car and the safety plug put back in I get 318V across the pack.  Opening the box that hangs beneath the battery modules I find two 'Control units'.  Do you know of any way to test or measure their status?  I can see one fuse that meters out OK.  Thanks, David

David.
The two units will almost certainly be. The high voltage ECU this checks the voltage (around 14.4 volts) of each pair of modules (blocks) against all the other blocks to check if they are out of balance. It also checks current in, and out, and controls the minimum, and maximum charge level (40% to 80%). It also checks the Battery temperature indirectly running the cooling fan. The other is the system main relay box that connects the Battery to the car in ready mode it also houses the current sensor.

There is no way apart from checking the condition of the plug and socket pins to test the HV ECU. The The system main relays can be unplugged, and tested in the normal way, but these are very robust high voltage high current units that rarely fail.

Perhaps you can describe more fully the symptoms you have with the car as I believe you problems are else ware. A list of what works, and what does not would help.

John

 

[Anatoliy]

On 10/6/2011 at 9:26 AM, Milou said:

Hello everyone,

as you can see this is my first post here. Being a member on other forums makes me confident to post here and get some feedback.

I own a 2006 GS450h which I bought used from the UK 1 1/2 years ago. The car was an approved used with full service history. It now has 60k miles on it.

About a month ago the engine light shown in the dash and I was reading check hybrid system. I took the car to Lexus garage. They checked with their diagnostic and said that this could be a control unit on the batteries or the batteries. We tried the CU but the problem was still there. So they now say it's the batteries, they cost 4k plus labour so I Decided to ask on the forum if anyone else faced the same problem.

From their side Lexus states that this is the first time they have batteries failing on these cars. They search on their network and said this is the first case in the EU.

Anyone who could share some knowledge would be very appreciated

Hi, 

I had almost the same with my old GS450H 2007 (full lexus history) but according to Lexus service center my problem was gearbox - pump failure at gearbox. The price was £8000 to repair. The main problem was that when I stop at traffic light for example, the car doesn’t move, i had to restart the car and it works again.  I refused this repair and took the car to other specialist...they held the car for quite long time and tried to replace gearbox (it would cost me £1200) but failed. I then found someone who bough my car for a good price (independent car garage). 

When you repair your issue, get rid off the car but warn the customer (just to be nice) 🙂 

Ps. Unfortunately, Hybrid car manufactures (Toyota) gives only 10 years for hybrid system. 

[albertpeter]

Did your issue get resolved ? How much it cost?

[Lanternman]

Thanks John,  it started with car being fine, then, as I was driving I had the Hybrid system warnings, ABS and stability control warnings, Battery degredation warning.  After a little research I decided to take the power pack out and check for a duff cell (I bought a spare to have ready).  Once apart I measured each cell, very little variation around 8.1V each.  Terminals had some corrosion so I cleaned them all (have all been checked 4 times now). I put it all back and .. No key sensor, the mechanical lock works the central door locks. Headlights work, horn works.  No ignition, no dashboard, no diagnostic circuit.  So I took the power Battery out again which is now in my garage.  The 12V Battery is good (12.8V steady).  I am puzzled by the Big Black 3rd cable from the bottom of the power pack, Is that a Ground return?  Thank for any guidance, David

[Britprius]

Did you check the voltage of the modules under load? If not they are meaning less. Both filaments of a standard headlamp bulb (HB4) is ideal giving a load of about 10 amps.
There is no ground on the HV side of the Battery it is left floating. Grounding one side will throw a fault code. You symptoms sound like a fuse or the HV Battery link not installed correctly.

Can you read a circuit diagram? If so I will try and supply one.

John.

[Lanternman]

I've only checked the single spare module under load.  As far as I was concerned driving the car, it was performing well - right up until the warnings!  I admit that at 12 years old they are probably end of life, but I would like to put it back working.  Yes I am from electro-mechanical background (Sub-station design) so can read circuit diagrams, so that would be most helpful John, thank you.

I have identified a 'Fuse like device' in the fuse box under the bonnet that is open circuit, initial checks show it is a noise filter, perhaps that needs replacing?  I'll dig a bit deeper on that one.

[Britprius]

3 hours ago, Lanternman said:

I've only checked the single spare module under load.  As far as I was concerned driving the car, it was performing well - right up until the warnings!  I admit that at 12 years old they are probably end of life, but I would like to put it back working.  Yes I am from electro-mechanical background (Sub-station design) so can read circuit diagrams, so that would be most helpful John, thank you.

I have identified a 'Fuse like device' in the fuse box under the bonnet that is open circuit, initial checks show it is a noise filter, perhaps that needs replacing?  I'll dig a bit deeper on that one.

Try this.

autocats.ws/manual/lexus/gs450h/rm02e1ru/ewd/index.html

And chose Hybid system.

[Boxbrownie]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:31 PM, GavJ said:

 who doesn't do more than 10,000 miles in a year? 

Me........

[Anatoliy]

On 12/27/2018 at 6:37 AM, albertpeter said:

Did your issue get resolved ? How much it cost?

Hi,

cannot recal if i asnwer this question. Lexus priced whole job for £8000. I have refused this and sold my car to lexus independent dealer for still very good price. 

He had same car and year with gearbox in good conditin - i thing he replaced gearbox and should work fine after. 

[Chous]

How much miles should the 450h be doing in city?