How Much Depreciation?

[steve2006]

Just looking around Autotrader and came across this 3 year old LS600H.

I drove the new model of this at the Open Road event and new they cost over 100k

Three years later and we are talking under 25K!

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201127401126015/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/ls/make/lexus/postcode/de554bd/page/4/radius/100/quicksearch/true?logcode=p

[Purvesh]

Yeah and the mileage will be six figures... but maintained well would be no sweat for it.

[Parthiban]

Wow that is pretty cheap :)

[Rapidone]

I've been looking at that aswell. I've been toying with the idea of getting one towards the end of the year.

Although the LS460 seems to be going for 7-8k less. That would buy a lot of petrol and road tax!

Do all the 460 and 600 come with double glazing or was that an option?

[graham8370]

Thinking the same. Had a look at 2 600's and the only difference between them and my 460 SEL, as far as I can see, is the hybrid engine. Very tempted, but the cost to change would set me back about £12k. Really cant justify it.

[steve2006]

On the LS600H L I test drove it was £101,000 and no it didn't have the double glazing! not sure if it is an option or not but if the top spec model doesn't have it I doubt it.

Another thing is I assume the road tax on the LS600 is less than the LS430/460 due to the emissions band, the fuel economy is better and there is no London Congestion charge so take the tax and fuel cost savings into account and the LCC if you drive around there and that extra £12K soon becomes less significant.

I've talked myself into one now,when's the next lottery draw

[Tiggy]

On the LS600H L I test drove it was £101,000 and no it didn't have the double glazing! not sure if it is an option or not but if the top spec model doesn't have it I doubt it.

Another thing is I assume the road tax on the LS600 is less than the LS430/460 due to the emissions band, the fuel economy is better and there is no London Congestion charge so take the tax and fuel cost savings into account and the LCC if you drive around there and that extra £12K soon becomes less significant.

I've talked myself into one now,when's the next lottery draw

Hi Steve. First can I say that I'm glad you and your mum weren't hurt in your accident.

The 'double glazing' is a double layer of glass, with a lamination inbetween. It's standard. Even the basic version of the 460 has it. Unless you're looking for it you'd not notice.

Tax and benefit-in-kind income tax on the 600 has been a bit less than on the 460, but from next year, with reducing levels in all the bands, they end up at the same top rate. Also, the congestion charge relief now only applies to cars with a very low co2 figure - and not to the 600.

Up to 62mph the 460 is quicker than the 600. The 600 may be quicker up to 100, but I don't normally drive at that speed. And also, it's only quicker for a short time - the Battery quickly drains if you try to push things.

The batteries make the car 200kg bulkier, and fill half the already rather small boot, and result in the car needing 102 rated tyres which cost considerably more than the already expensive 460 98 rated ones.

Earlier 600s lack LKA. Along with radar cruise control, the gentle part of LKA, which helps you steer, is one of the 460's best tricks - seriously increasing my endurance as a driver.

The benefit is lower mpg driving around town (though not on the motorway). Last time I checked though, and did some sums, it would take 10 years of normal driving to break even. You should do that calculation for yourself before plunging - you might be surprised at how little you'd save per year in fuel.

You didn't mention the environment. Certainly, less carbon dioxide is produced in running around, but making the batteries produces so much co2 that it takes about 8 years to balance this out.

And ten years is about how long these batteries are expected to last - so suddenly it will be time for a fresh set.

I'd recommend a 460 SE-L to you. I just think it's very sad that Lexus have stopped importing them to this country. The 600 is far too expensive for what it is, and the price of the 460, before they stopped selling it, was also already far too high.

: o )

[knitware]

On the LS600H L I test drove it was £101,000 and no it didn't have the double glazing! not sure if it is an option or not but if the top spec model doesn't have it I doubt it.

Another thing is I assume the road tax on the LS600 is less than the LS430/460 due to the emissions band, the fuel economy is better and there is no London Congestion charge so take the tax and fuel cost savings into account and the LCC if you drive around there and that extra £12K soon becomes less significant.

I've talked myself into one now,when's the next lottery draw

Hi Steve. First can I say that I'm glad you and your mum weren't hurt in your accident.

The 'double glazing' is a double layer of glass, with a lamination inbetween. It's standard. Even the basic version of the 460 has it. Unless you're looking for it you'd not notice.

Tax and benefit-in-kind income tax on the 600 has been a bit less than on the 460, but from next year, with reducing levels in all the bands, they end up at the same top rate. Also, the congestion charge relief now only applies to cars with a very low co2 figure - and not to the 600.

Up to 62mph the 460 is quicker than the 600. The 600 may be quicker up to 100, but I don't normally drive at that speed. And also, it's only quicker for a short time - the Battery quickly drains if you try to push things.

The batteries make the car 200kg bulkier, and fill half the already rather small boot, and result in the car needing 102 rated tyres which cost considerably more than the already expensive 460 98 rated ones.

Earlier 600s lack LKA. Along with radar cruise control, the gentle part of LKA, which helps you steer, is one of the 460's best tricks - seriously increasing my endurance as a driver.

The benefit is lower mpg driving around town (though not on the motorway). Last time I checked though, and did some sums, it would take 10 years of normal driving to break even. You should do that calculation for yourself before plunging - you might be surprised at how little you'd save per year in fuel.

You didn't mention the environment. Certainly, less carbon dioxide is produced in running around, but making the batteries produces so much co2 that it takes about 8 years to balance this out.

And ten years is about how long these batteries are expected to last - so suddenly it will be time for a fresh set.

I'd recommend a 460 SE-L to you. I just think it's very sad that Lexus have stopped importing them to this country. The 600 is far too expensive for what it is, and the price of the 460, before they stopped selling it, was also already far too high.

: o )

Hi.. That was a realy good post!

I'm thinking about buying a 460 they seem excellent value at the moment. What are they like to live with day to day. Does paying £450 'ish' road tax upset you?

[Chris Skelton]

Depreciation in this country is a joke! We all seem to accept it (O.K.; can't DO much about it) but why does a perfectly good car after-say- 3 years, lose half its 'value'? Someone posted recently here that LSs cost far more 2nd hand in Finland, which seems to indicate that they have a more sensible approach there.

My LS is far better than, say, a Fiesta. But probably the same cost!

Great for buyers, but it really is both uneconomic and unecologic!

[steve2006]

On the LS600H L I test drove it was £101,000 and no it didn't have the double glazing! not sure if it is an option or not but if the top spec model doesn't have it I doubt it.

Another thing is I assume the road tax on the LS600 is less than the LS430/460 due to the emissions band, the fuel economy is better and there is no London Congestion charge so take the tax and fuel cost savings into account and the LCC if you drive around there and that extra £12K soon becomes less significant.

I've talked myself into one now,when's the next lottery draw

Hi Steve. First can I say that I'm glad you and your mum weren't hurt in your accident.

The 'double glazing' is a double layer of glass, with a lamination inbetween. It's standard. Even the basic version of the 460 has it. Unless you're looking for it you'd not notice.

Tax and benefit-in-kind income tax on the 600 has been a bit less than on the 460, but from next year, with reducing levels in all the bands, they end up at the same top rate. Also, the congestion charge relief now only applies to cars with a very low co2 figure - and not to the 600.

Up to 62mph the 460 is quicker than the 600. The 600 may be quicker up to 100, but I don't normally drive at that speed. And also, it's only quicker for a short time - the Battery quickly drains if you try to push things.

The batteries make the car 200kg bulkier, and fill half the already rather small boot, and result in the car needing 102 rated tyres which cost considerably more than the already expensive 460 98 rated ones.

Earlier 600s lack LKA. Along with radar cruise control, the gentle part of LKA, which helps you steer, is one of the 460's best tricks - seriously increasing my endurance as a driver.

The benefit is lower mpg driving around town (though not on the motorway). Last time I checked though, and did some sums, it would take 10 years of normal driving to break even. You should do that calculation for yourself before plunging - you might be surprised at how little you'd save per year in fuel.

You didn't mention the environment. Certainly, less carbon dioxide is produced in running around, but making the batteries produces so much co2 that it takes about 8 years to balance this out.

And ten years is about how long these batteries are expected to last - so suddenly it will be time for a fresh set.

I'd recommend a 460 SE-L to you. I just think it's very sad that Lexus have stopped importing them to this country. The 600 is far too expensive for what it is, and the price of the 460, before they stopped selling it, was also already far too high.

: o )

Hi.. That was a realy good post!

I'm thinking about buying a 460 they seem excellent value at the moment. What are they like to live with day to day. Does paying £450 'ish' road tax upset you?

Paying any amount of road tax upsets me for driving into potholes!

[steve2006]

Depreciation in this country is a joke! We all seem to accept it (O.K.; can't DO much about it) but why does a perfectly good car after-say- 3 years, lose half its 'value'? Someone posted recently here that LSs cost far more 2nd hand in Finland, which seems to indicate that they have a more sensible approach there.

My LS is far better than, say, a Fiesta. But probably the same cost!

Great for buyers, but it really is both uneconomic and unecologic!

I've discovered something similar while trying to acertain a realistic value for my written of Celsior, the same vehicle in Australia but 4 years loder and double the mileage is selling for double for what mine is presently being valued at.

I have always said even if I had the money to do so I would never buy a brand new car simply because of the horrendous depreciation and the fact the same car three years on will be 2/3 of the new price.

[itarumaa]

Depreciation is not actually bad thing, if you buy only older second hand cars, then it is really good thing to have. Gettings luxury car for small money.

And if you in UK are worried about high road(motor) tax, well in Ireland I pay 442e every 3 months for motor tax to my ls400...

Good thing is tough that starting of next month the car and me will leave Ireland and hopefully finds it way to Finland, where large engined cars are much cheaper to keep in the road.

[Glyn Radcliffe-Brine]

Don't know if this discussion is still going, but:

I've just had a rather surprising result on depreciation. In 2011 I bought an LS430 with 99,000 miles on the clock for £4,000. Last Saturday, with 170,000 miles on the clock it was hit at high speed directly on the driver's side, causing £7,500 worth of damage. I insisted that the insurance company inspect the car in my presence (it was in virtually perfect condition), and they valued it as a write off at £3,750.

I can't think of many cars that would depreciate by £250 over 70,000 miles and four years - This is seriously cheap motoring!

[steve2006]

Don't know if this discussion is still going, but:

I've just had a rather surprising result on depreciation. In 2011 I bought an LS430 with 99,000 miles on the clock for £4,000. Last Saturday, with 170,000 miles on the clock it was hit at high speed directly on the driver's side, causing £7,500 worth of damage. I insisted that the insurance company inspect the car in my presence (it was in virtually perfect condition), and they valued it as a write off at £3,750.

I can't think of many cars that would depreciate by £250 over 70,000 miles and four years - This is seriously cheap motoring!

It's been a few years but proves you use the search facility :)

Good result on the write off price, are you OK yourself I take it the car did a good job in protecting you?

[Glyn Radcliffe-Brine]

Many thanks for asking. Yes the car saved our lives. I spent an hour in an ambulance with severe shock, but my wife was fine. What was amazing was how little incursion there was into the cabin. It was a key reason for me finding another LS430 - If it had been a smaller car, even a more modern one, I don't think I would have survived with just bruises, and I certainly don't think my wife would have stepped out completely unharmed.

I've been driving for over 45 years, and I've owned or driven all sorts of vehicles from a Ford Anglia Van (top chopped off, "big" engine and Jag back axle), through Morgan +4 to Jensen, Aston Martin, etc and the only other vehicle to which I was really attached was a 1986 Mercedes 560 SEL that I bought in 1997. That was a great car, and I cried when it finally succumbed to rust. I never thought I would feel the same about a car, but my LS430 turned out to be even better than that. I've just bought a 2001 LS430 with 92,000 miles on the clock with full Lexus service history - So the love affair goes on...

[ambermarine]

This thread is as interesting as it is continous, depreceation will be with us as long as we buy cars that are mass produced for the consumption of the general public and not aimed at specific markets such as supercars or limited editions.

The interesting bit is the wordwide values put on the Lexus LS range .as as been stated by other members .

Lexus cars in Australia have better residual values than UK models One might assume that is because there are less sold there than here ,if that being the case why do like for like models in the USA fetch twice as much as UK models where there are thousands more than there are in the UK.

The economics have a say in it ,for example the US dealerships lease a lot of high end models to the private buyer for three to five years the aim is to make as much money from the vehicle and keep depreceation to a minimum, financial penalties for high mileage and poor upkeep help to ensure this. The lease financer then sells them into the open market usually through dealerships as one owner cars , vehicles will be sold with all kinds of warranties and this ups the resale price, that price keeps the earlier models prices higher as does the buy your last car debt system that operates in the states.This is when you trade in your car with its outstanding finance and that debt is added to your new car .

So what is happening is the value of second hand cars in the states is artifically high due to inherent debt.

If you add the popularity of the Lexus brand then the price is affected by supply and demand factors especially in used cars.

We should thank our lucky stars that the Lexus LS brand as never really caught on here in the private sector and we benefit with cheap purchases from the mainly corporate dominated sales.

[Malc]

. ............I remember my visit to Australia in 2012 and checking out the prices of new cars .. The Ls600 was the equivalent of £220,000 ......... yes POUNDS .......... the Oz car taxes on new added about 100% to the UK priced equivalent.

( Aus $ was then @ 1.45 / £ and its a lot different now tho' )

Just astonishing.

Malc

[Glyn Radcliffe-Brine]

Fascinating!

[Bluesman]

. ............I remember my visit to Australia in 2012 and checking out the prices of new cars .. The Ls600 was the equivalent of £220,000 ......... yes POUNDS .......... the Oz car taxes on new added about 100% to the UK priced equivalent.

( Aus $ was then @ 1.45 / £ and its a lot different now tho' )

Just astonishing.

Malc

Crikey I can remember not too long ago it was over $2 Aus to the £. Mike.