2Nd Post - Re Damaged On Delivery 450H

lee789 · February 27, 2011

Hi again,

Thanks to all who replied to my original post concerning the dented door on my 450H. To recap, this dent was present on delivery, but went unnoticed due to the wet weather. Although the dealer has agreed to pay for a £40 Paintless Dent Removal by a guy I have used before, they have refused to do anything further if this method fails.

My question is this - should I even consider asking a non Lexus repairer to attempt this repair, or should I simply threaten to reject the vehicle under the Lexus Approved No Quibble Exchange if they continue to refuse to rectify it?

What worries me is that having agreed to pay the £40, if the dent guy is unable to remove it, the Lexus Dealer might argue that the car is no longer in the condition in which it was delivered (i.e - that the repairer has made it worse). I'm sure Lexus dealers have their own dent removal contacts, so would I be best to insist they collect the car and rectify it themselves, rather than involve a third party?

I'm also concerned that if they force me into asking for a vehicle exchange, they might argue that the dent wasn't there when delivered, that I had signed for delivery of the car, and therefore accepted it was in good condition. I do not want to give them any cause to blame me for the damage, and for that reason I am not going to drive the vehicle at all until this is sorted out.

Incidentally, my neighbour is a long standing Lexus owner and customer, and he noticed the dent straightaway. His opinion is that the dealers attitude is disgraceful, and totally unacceptable. I would post pictures, but unfortunately it is very difficult to photograph due to the high gloss black paintwork. Thanks for any advice!

The-Acre · February 27, 2011

Hi again,

Thanks to all who replied to my original post concerning the dented door on my 450H. To recap, this dent was present on delivery, but went unnoticed due to the wet weather. Although the dealer has agreed to pay for a £40 Paintless Dent Removal by a guy I have used before, they have refused to do anything further if this method fails.

My question is this - should I even consider asking a non Lexus repairer to attempt this repair, or should I simply threaten to reject the vehicle under the Lexus Approved No Quibble Exchange if they continue to refuse to rectify it?

What worries me is that having agreed to pay the £40, if the dent guy is unable to remove it, the Lexus Dealer might argue that the car is no longer in the condition in which it was delivered (i.e - that the repairer has made it worse). I'm sure Lexus dealers have their own dent removal contacts, so would I be best to insist they collect the car and rectify it themselves, rather than involve a third party?

I'm also concerned that if they force me into asking for a vehicle exchange, they might argue that the dent wasn't there when delivered, that I had signed for delivery of the car, and therefore accepted it was in good condition. I do not want to give them any cause to blame me for the damage, and for that reason I am not going to drive the vehicle at all until this is sorted out.

Incidentally, my neighbour is a long standing Lexus owner and customer, and he noticed the dent straightaway. His opinion is that the dealers attitude is disgraceful, and totally unacceptable. I would post pictures, but unfortunately it is very difficult to photograph due to the high gloss black paintwork. Thanks for any advice!

Considering the way Lexus pride themselves with customer service, it's surprising that they've taken this attitude. Personally I would stand my ground and insist that they sort it out. If you persevere you should win, don't settle for second best.

Phil

dave1 · February 27, 2011

Are there no photos in the dealers sales folder or internet photos on which the dent might be visible. Very awkward situation really since the dealer could claim that even if dent was present it is "acceptable wear and tear" and you signed for it in this condition. I would be inclined to ask them to get their own SMART repair done if you are worried as to whether your man can do it satisfactorily.

It may be that the PDI was done and the dent wasn't noticed or it was done after the PDI. It would only take a car door opened onto it whilst between the PDI and the salesman delivering it.

I think you should contact the dealership and maybe make an appointment to see the dealer principal to discuss options and keep very calm and polite but also very assertive about your expectations. Document all contact with them. Possibly naming the dealer here might get feedback from other members who have had dealings with them as to your best approach.

lee789 · February 27, 2011

Hi Dave1,

The guy I have asked to look at the damage is very good at what he does. However, the position of the dent makes it inaccessible from inside the door panel, and it is almost entirely in the double skinned area where the door hinges open. I think the only hope of a paintless repair is if he can use the quick drying adhesive method of pulling the dent out. I've had this done on roof dents in the past, and it worked very well. Unfortunately, the double skin around the door is a lot thicker than a roof panel. I share your concern that the dealer might claim fair wear and tear, and that I signed for the car in that condition. However, it was impossible to see with the car being wet, and being a £36,000 6 months old vehicle, I think fair wear and tear might not be accepted as a credible excuse. I'll wait and see what the repairer says when he inspects the car on Tuesday, and I'll hope for the best. I will give the dealer another chance to be reasonable if the dent removal isn't an option. I've also got a contact at Trading Standards, so I will speak to him for advice. I have been told that a non-Lexus fill and paint bodyshop job shouldn't even be considered due to the problems of mismatch in colour. I'm sure you are likely to agree that if I start down the Exchange Vehicle route, the dealer is likely to see a free of charge repair as their cheapest and most convenient option.

dave1 · February 27, 2011

The reason I suggested requesting the dealer to arrange the SMART repair was that if it wasn't successful they could not put any blame on you for arranging it. If you could get them to arrange it, even using your man, then the success/failure of the repair would be down to the dealer so that if it didn't work then you could push them harder for an alternative repair job.

My bonnet was resprayed by a non Lexus bodyshop who are very good and were used by local Toyota dealers until Listers took over local Toyota & Lexus dealerships. Listers have their own bodyshop, which repairs many marques owing to them being multifranchise and having been there for a quote I was not overly impressed. Any good bodyshop will get the same paint from the same source as a dealer would so it is really down to the proficiency of the technician.

lee789 · February 27, 2011

Hi,

The dealer asked me to make arrangements for the Smart repair, and they would pay for it. I know he won't even make an attempt at it if he can't guarantee getting the whole dent out, in fact, I won't let him if there is any doubt at all. I get your point about putting the onus back on the dealer, and thats precisely what I will do if he inspects it and gives a "No" verdict. I will then leave it to the dealer to either arrange for their own chosen repairer to give an opinion, or arrange for the car to be collected and repaired at their dealership. I trust my guy to know whether its within his capabilities, a job for someone more skilled, or a fill'n'paint job. Thanks for the reassurance on the bodyshop front, I was concerned that a partial spray might not match. I don't intend to give this dealer any grounds for shifting blame onto me, but if it can be sorted really easily, and without resorting to further arguement, so much the better. I'll keep you informed. Thanks again!

Rory · February 27, 2011

for £36k i'd reject it

lee789 · February 27, 2011

Yeah Rory, but I think I'd have a hell of a job getting the money back. I know I can exchange under the 30 day Approved Program, but the dealer currently has no replacement vehicle, and the terms and conditions of the scheme say it must be an in stock car at the dealer of the same or higher value. He's got a 60 plate IS250C, but the power of the car is woefully lacking in comparison to the GS450H. Now if they did a 350C in this country, that would be an entirely different matter!!

knitware · February 28, 2011

I don't believe that the dealer missed the damage to your door at point of sale either. Shortly after I bought my car I took it to Lexus Sheffield for a service. They noticed and marked off on their check sheet tiny scratches on the boot caused by suit cases etc, so I cant see how your dealer missed a ding in the door.

I'm concerned about the other issue that you have, suspect 'primer' on the arm rest. It's all a bit disconcerting.

Could you visit another dealer with your car and ask them for advice?

lee789 · March 2, 2011

Hi Knitware,

Dent sorted out by a Paintless Dent REmoval yesterday. I agree, the dealer must have been aware of it. I told them it was on the door, and that a PDR might not work. When they telephoned yesterday, the sales manager told me that the salesman had used another vehicle on their site to show him where the dent was located, and he thought it unlikely a PDR would work. I'm not sure how he knew where to show him the exact location, because I hadn't told him. So, I think he knew already. Overspray was a trim repair done when the car was owned by Lexus. A pretty poor job, and the touch up spray doesn't exactly match. Unfortunately, Lexus don't do colour match trim touch ups, so I will find a matching shade of Tuxan Polish from my local shoe shop. Have done this on previous vehicles, and it works well. All I have to get sorted out now are the vehicle handbooks. The car was supplied with facelift manuals covering the Hard Drive Sat Nav. My car is pre-facelift with DVD Sat Nav, so not a lot of use really. The dealer didn't seem interested when I mentioned this, and said that these were the only manual that came with the car from Lexus. Prefacelift manual are available through their parts department for £25, so I have e-mailed him and asked him to supply these. Hopefully that will be an end to my problems, but if I find anything else, I will lose patience and reject the car.

Parthiban · March 2, 2011

If I was in your position I'd be quite irritated by now so I commend your overall calmness!

I know Lexus Woodford very well, and this is entirely out of character as far as my personal experience would suggest.

It might be worth speaking to James Cook who is the service manager, he has helped me out so many times it's ridiculous but he's so helpful and I'm sure he'll be able to assist in either getting you the right manuals or pushing whoever is required to make it happen.

Do you mind telling me who you've been dealing with so far just for future reference in case I decide to buy a car from them? Feel free to PM if you would prefer, just sounds that whoever you've been dealing with might be worth avoiding.

dave1 · March 2, 2011

All I have to get sorted out now are the vehicle handbooks. The car was supplied with facelift manuals covering the Hard Drive Sat Nav. My car is pre-facelift with DVD Sat Nav, so not a lot of use really. The dealer didn't seem interested when I mentioned this, and said that these were the only manual that came with the car from Lexus. Prefacelift manual are available through their parts department for £25, so I have e-mailed him and asked him to supply these. Hopefully that will be an end to my problems, but if I find anything else, I will lose patience and reject the car.

Glad the dent is sorted. The trim should, according to the terms of Lexus Approved, be repaired correctly by the dealer before being sold. I take it that you are not being charged the £25 for the correct manual for the car.

lee789 · March 2, 2011

Well, I sincerely hope not, 'cos if they expect payment, they can think again. They should have supplied the correct manuals in the first place. To add to my problems I tried to take the car out this afternoon and it wouldn't start. I got CHECK VGR in the display. No idea what that meant, and nor did the dealer service dept. Called the AA and they diagnosed a dead Battery - not flat, just plain knackered, and only holding 27 amps instead of 500. He reckoned the car had been left standing for months for this to happen. A call to Lexus confirmed that the car was built in Aug 09, and not registered until June 2010. So, not altogether suprising. I called my local service centre and they will have a new Battery in for tomorrow morning, by which time the AA guy says the car probably won't start, and I'll have to call him out again. He doubted the dealer would have been unaware of the state of the Battery, and they would almost certainly have had to jump start the car each time they moved it. Almost at the end of my patience now, and beginning to think this car is a lemon. It will only take one more little problem in the next 24 days to make me reject it. Lets hope it is a Battery problem and not a fault with the charging system!! AA guy said not to drive off on hybrid power tomorrow, and to wait for the engine to kick in. Apparently, if theres not enough power in the 12v Battery to start the engine, the car will conk out when the hybrid Battery is exhausted. NICE!!

knitware · March 2, 2011

I was going to say that I'm pleased all is fixed regarding the dent!

I'm sure that you will need to get the fault codes cleared once you fit the new Battery, maybe others can advise.

Mars · March 2, 2011

If I was in your position I'd be quite irritated by now so I commend your overall calmness!

I know Lexus Woodford very well, and this is entirely out of character as far as my personal experience would suggest.

It might be worth speaking to James Cook who is the service manager, he has helped me out so many times it's ridiculous but he's so helpful and I'm sure he'll be able to assist in either getting you the right manuals or pushing whoever is required to make it happen.

Do you mind telling me who you've been dealing with so far just for future reference in case I decide to buy a car from them? Feel free to PM if you would prefer, just sounds that whoever you've been dealing with might be worth avoiding.

So was it Lexus Woodford he bought this car from?? As far as I am aware the sales side as opposed to the service side are a total different kettle of fish. James Cook is THE man indeed, absolutely awesome!!!!

Parthiban · March 3, 2011

This is getting crazy though, I'd be inclined to reject the car and get a refund at this point. Or use that to get some free stuff.

So was it Lexus Woodford he bought this car from?? As far as I am aware the sales side as opposed to the service side are a total different kettle of fish. James Cook is THE man indeed, absolutely awesome!!!!

Yeah it was Woodford, do they have a reputation for the sales side being quite bad then? Will have to go back to Edgware Road then if I ever decide to buy another Lexus :)

Mars · March 3, 2011

I think when I first joined this forum back in 2005 there was a particular salesman they had who attracted not too good comments from members on here. Can't remember his name though. Of course it may not apply to all their salesmen.

Mars · March 3, 2011

This is getting crazy though, I'd be inclined to reject the car and get a refund at this point. Or use that to get some free stuff.

So was it Lexus Woodford he bought this car from?? As far as I am aware the sales side as opposed to the service side are a total different kettle of fish. James Cook is THE man indeed, absolutely awesome!!!!

Yeah it was Woodford, do they have a reputation for the sales side being quite bad then? Will have to go back to Edgware Road then if I ever decide to buy another Lexus :)

Actually Parthiban you were involved in a June 2004 thread about the sales section of Lexus Woodford. The salesman in question had the initials DN. Don't know if he still works for them but he was thought to be arrogant and rude.

lee789 · March 3, 2011

Hi all, and thanks for all your support and advice!

rhosneigr · March 4, 2011

by which time the AA guy says the car probably won't start, and I'll have to call him out again. He doubted the dealer would have been unaware of the state of the battery, and they would almost certainly have had to jump start the car each time they moved it.

How do you jump start the engine? I was under the impression that you "jump started" the 12 volt system which is the computerised system. The engine is then started by the main Battery and if that is flat no matter what is connected to the 12 volt Battery you will not start the engine. Or have I got it wrong?

Parthiban · March 4, 2011

Actually Parthiban you were involved in a June 2004 thread about the sales section of Lexus Woodford. The salesman in question had the initials DN. Don't know if he still works for them but he was thought to be arrogant and rude.

Just looked that up and honestly can't remember even asking for that