Rx400H Reversing Lights (Or Lack Of !) Lexus Email.

[bertie40]

Hi Guys,

I thought I would post the email I received from Lexus GB regarding the awful illumination achieved when reversing.

I have "XXXX"'d out the names. Aside from this, I think it is a great car. (and I am aware of the bulb cover mod, cheers).

Dear Mr XXXXXXX

Thank you for your emails dated 9 & 10 February 2011 and for taking the trouble to contact us.

Firstly, I was sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the reverse light illumination on your RX 400h and regret that you have been given cause to contact us.

Whilst I do understand why you have felt it necessary to contact us I must advise that the purpose of the reverse light is to warn other road users of your intention to reverse. The warning light functionality is not intended to illuminate the road to aid driving.

Furthermore, I must advise Toyota (GB) PLC cannot release a product, accessory or part before it has been through a process of homologation. This process is outlined by the Ministry of Transport and provides information to monitor the performance of our vehicles and fitted parts. Therefore, Toyota (GB) PLC cannot make recommendations or provide technical assistance to modifications outside of the manufacturer’s specification.

If you decide to make modifications to your vehicle which are not in line with the manufacturer’s specification, this will not automatically invalidate your warranty. However, if any part fails as a consequence to this, the manufacturer’s warranty will not cover the cost of repair.

In closing, thank you once again for providing your thoughts and comments. I trust the above explains our position with regard to this matter.

Yours sincerely

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Customer Relations Executive

And my response was "I'm sorry, that is just ludicrous. Are you suggesting that I carry a passenger to illuminate the road with a torch, when I reverse the car at night !

Remember the car is virtually silent as well. This is a serious problem and I have no desire to kill any small children."

[Boxbrownie]

No suprise at all from Lexus GB response I am afraid......I had the same "nothing to do with us" responce when I first bought my pre-owned RX300SE from a Lexus main dealer and found the wheels had just been cleaned and sprayed over with silver paint after they told me they would refurbish the alloys before sale......biggest giveaway was the fact they brake discs and calipers along with most of the suspension had silver paint on them as well, they hadn't even taken the wheels off to "refurbish" them :tsktsk:

I would have thought the best retort from you to the Lexus GB answer would be if the lights serve as a warning then surely making them more effecient would serve to not only give a greater warning but also enable them to be used by the driver as a reversing aid as well, thus making the vehicle even safer when reversing....they are dopey g1ts!

[Duncan Roberts]

Hi Guys,

I thought I would post the email I received from Lexus GB regarding the awful illumination achieved when reversing.

I have "XXXX"'d out the names. Aside from this, I think it is a great car. (and I am aware of the bulb cover mod, cheers).

Dear Mr XXXXXXX

Thank you for your emails dated 9 & 10 February 2011 and for taking the trouble to contact us.

Firstly, I was sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the reverse light illumination on your RX 400h and regret that you have been given cause to contact us.

Whilst I do understand why you have felt it necessary to contact us I must advise that the purpose of the reverse light is to warn other road users of your intention to reverse. The warning light functionality is not intended to illuminate the road to aid driving.

Furthermore, I must advise Toyota (GB) PLC cannot release a product, accessory or part before it has been through a process of homologation. This process is outlined by the Ministry of Transport and provides information to monitor the performance of our vehicles and fitted parts. Therefore, Toyota (GB) PLC cannot make recommendations or provide technical assistance to modifications outside of the manufacturer’s specification.

If you decide to make modifications to your vehicle which are not in line with the manufacturer’s specification, this will not automatically invalidate your warranty. However, if any part fails as a consequence to this, the manufacturer’s warranty will not cover the cost of repair.

In closing, thank you once again for providing your thoughts and comments. I trust the above explains our position with regard to this matter.

Yours sincerely

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Customer Relations Executive

And my response was "I'm sorry, that is just ludicrous. Are you suggesting that I carry a passenger to illuminate the road with a torch, when I reverse the car at night !

Remember the car is virtually silent as well. This is a serious problem and I have no desire to kill any small children."

Again I disagree - it is possible to reverse by it - it adequately illuminates the near distance.

[Parthiban]

I'm slightly confused by this, are you complaining that your reverse lights are not bright enough for reversing?

I've never used reverse lights to illuminate the road, I'm not sure any car would be bright enough - this is the weirdest complaint I've ever come across!

[Boxbrownie]

I've never used reverse lights to illuminate the road, I'm not sure any car would be bright enough - this is the weirdest complaint I've ever come across!

Seriously you have NEVER thought the reversing lights are there to use at night to aid your visibility?

I guess if you always drive in built up areas which are well lit there would be no advantage but try reversing down an unlit drive at night with no reward visibility.....those trees always ignore the warning effect of a meager revesing lamp and never seem to jump out of the way! :winky:

[Parthiban]

It would be nice if they did, but I'm pretty sure they aren't there for visibility but rather as a warning to other road users - otherwise they would be proper lamps.

If it was an issue I'd look for some sort of aftermarket solution, fair enough to make a suggestion to the manufacturer that future cars could have brighter reverse lights but that is quite an amusing complaint - there isn't a single car out there with reverse lights that illuminate your path so to just complain to Lexus is a bit silly imho.

[Boxbrownie]

Sorry thats a wrong assumption, for 33 years I have worked at the largest vehicle manufacturers research and development centre in the UK and although the lighting development is undertaken in Germany I can assure you we test and design the reversing lamps as an aid to driver visibility, and its not just our make, my wifes old 3 series BMW has reversing lamps that illuminate perfectly well to see, granted my Jaguars RL were a bit weak, but nothing like as dim as the RX lamps.

A quick scan of the US Lexus forums will bring up numerous complaints about the RX RL and ideas for improving them......not seen the same in other marque forums, not that I have looked that closely elswhere as yet.

[knitware]

Sorry thats a wrong assumption, for 33 years I have worked at the largest vehicle manufacturers research and development centre in the UK and although the lighting development is undertaken in Germany I can assure you we test and design the reversing lamps as an aid to driver visibility, and its not just our make, my wifes old 3 series BMW has reversing lamps that illuminate perfectly well to see, granted my Jaguars RL were a bit weak, but nothing like as dim as the RX lamps.

A quick scan of the US Lexus forums will bring up numerous complaints about the RX RL and ideas for improving them......not seen the same in other marque forums, not that I have looked that closely elswhere as yet.

I don't think I've ever thought about the intensity of reversing lights while reversing, I just reverse. Apart from help from sensors, which I think the RX has, brake lights are usually more effective than reversing lights due to reflecting off a wall etc.

I don't see the point in complaining either, it's a minor detail not bothering many people.

[Boxbrownie]

Sorry thats a wrong assumption, for 33 years I have worked at the largest vehicle manufacturers research and development centre in the UK and although the lighting development is undertaken in Germany I can assure you we test and design the reversing lamps as an aid to driver visibility, and its not just our make, my wifes old 3 series BMW has reversing lamps that illuminate perfectly well to see, granted my Jaguars RL were a bit weak, but nothing like as dim as the RX lamps.

A quick scan of the US Lexus forums will bring up numerous complaints about the RX RL and ideas for improving them......not seen the same in other marque forums, not that I have looked that closely elswhere as yet.

I don't think I've ever thought about the intensity of reversing lights while reversing, I just reverse. Apart from help from sensors, which I think the RX has, brake lights are usually more effective than reversing lights due to reflecting off a wall etc.

I don't see the point in complaining either, it's a minor detail not bothering many people.

Its fine using the brake lights if you have an automatic, but manual cars it is virtually impossible, and as you say you use the light from the brake lights to reverse, therefore reversing lights are useful whether they be red or white in colour, providing they are bright enough!

I myself do not see the point in complaining either, there is no way any attention will be paid to the complaint and it defiantely will not filter back through to Japan

[InvinsibleIronman]

hello

thats the maddest complaint i have ever heard in my life.. i am suprised they even bothered to reply!

[TigerFish]

I must admit, I think their response is bang on the money.

[Crowtree]

I looked up this very subject due to the fact I got in my RX400h last night and wanted to reverse up my drive, and to be honest the view I had was ***** poor to say the least ! I am having a real problem understanding how some of you guys as saying that reversing lights have no connection with actually letting the driver see where he is going when reversing ? what planet are you on ? The post saying that the reversing lights are to let others know you are going backwards is in my mind almost comical, yes to a degree this is part of its function but 90% of these lights job is to aid reversing.

Do any of you guys actually own a RX400h ? have you actually ever driven one backwards in the pitch dark ? going on my experience last night with this car having black glass in the rear plus the fact the rear window is small and obscured by the rear head restraints and the rear of the car is quite high and the door mirrors will not give you a good enough angle when they tilt down when you engage reverse and the reversing camera is all but useless in the dark, I fail to see that you think this is not an issue ? the very reason for my being on this forum today is to find out if others have the same problem ? I have been driving for 26 years and have driven and owned many cars and without doubt there IS an issue with the lights on this car.

I can see how people who live in street light lit areas would not notice this issue but my drive is quite long and has trees and a long wall and I found it to be a problem.

As for Lexus and the way they will react to this issue, well what can they actually do about it ? unless they redesign the whole rear light cluster and then replace them all on every car they cant really do anything ? and I dont expect they would as this is called the evolution of the motor car, think how crap the first say Vauxhall Astra was, they were shocking and over time cars have evolved, But for people to turn round and say there is no problem with these reversing lights is a bit daft. As a driver of a large heavy car I want to be in 100% control at all times and going backwards when I cant actually see much is not on my list of fun activities.

[Crowtree]

Oh and after a little bit of research I found that the next generation of this car the RX450h has COMPLETELY different reversing lights ?

[Duncan Roberts]

I looked up this very subject due to the fact I got in my RX400h last night and wanted to reverse up my drive, and to be honest the view I had was ***** poor to say the least ! I am having a real problem understanding how some of you guys as saying that reversing lights have no connection with actually letting the driver see where he is going when reversing ? what planet are you on ? The post saying that the reversing lights are to let others know you are going backwards is in my mind almost comical, yes to a degree this is part of its function but 90% of these lights job is to aid reversing.

Do any of you guys actually own a RX400h ? have you actually ever driven one backwards in the pitch dark ? going on my experience last night with this car having black glass in the rear plus the fact the rear window is small and obscured by the rear head restraints and the rear of the car is quite high and the door mirrors will not give you a good enough angle when they tilt down when you engage reverse and the reversing camera is all but useless in the dark, I fail to see that you think this is not an issue ? the very reason for my being on this forum today is to find out if others have the same problem ? I have been driving for 26 years and have driven and owned many cars and without doubt there IS an issue with the lights on this car.

I can see how people who live in street light lit areas would not notice this issue but my drive is quite long and has trees and a long wall and I found it to be a problem.

As for Lexus and the way they will react to this issue, well what can they actually do about it ? unless they redesign the whole rear light cluster and then replace them all on every car they cant really do anything ? and I dont expect they would as this is called the evolution of the motor car, think how crap the first say Vauxhall Astra was, they were shocking and over time cars have evolved, But for people to turn round and say there is no problem with these reversing lights is a bit daft. As a driver of a large heavy car I want to be in 100% control at all times and going backwards when I cant actually see much is not on my list of fun activities.

I have had Mark 2 RXs now for 8 years and have experienced no problems in reversing at night with the lights.

[Crowtree]

Well Duncan there must be something a bit odd n strange going on in darkest deepest Norfolk as last night I couldnt see jack **** going up my drive lol

Maybe your lights are some how different to mine ? maybe then little " light cover " things or something ?

All im saying is there are people who are dismissing this as not being a problem, and last night I did actually have a problem as in I couldnt see bugger all.

So apart from this how do you find yours ? its the same model as mine.

[Duncan Roberts]

Well Duncan there must be something a bit odd n strange going on in darkest deepest Norfolk as last night I couldnt see jack **** going up my drive lol

Maybe your lights are some how different to mine ? maybe then little " light cover " things or something ?

All im saying is there are people who are dismissing this as not being a problem, and last night I did actually have a problem as in I couldnt see bugger all.

So apart from this how do you find yours ? its the same model as mine.

One was a mark 2 RX300 I bought new in 2005 which I replaced in late 2008 with a new RX400h. So yes, at least the same shape. Regrettably/Fortunately having not experienced the problem in 8 years I cannot sympathise from experience and certainly would not change the set up. Yes I do drive it in the dark, without street or other lights.

[nelmo]

I do agree that the rear view is rubbish in the dark BUT I don't blame the car and I never expected the reversing lights to provide illumination to help reversing.

I'm struggling to remember what other cars are like as, until now, I've had reversing sensors on all my cars for the last 15 years but I suspect all cars are the same - try reversing only in the daylight

[David RX450h]

Reversing Camera

[Beejay]

Reversing camera works for me.

[Vicmeldrew]

I looked up this very subject due to the fact I got in my RX400h last night and wanted to reverse up my drive, and to be honest the view I had was ***** poor to say the least ! I am having a real problem understanding how some of you guys as saying that reversing lights have no connection with actually letting the driver see where he is going when reversing ? what planet are you on ? The post saying that the reversing lights are to let others know you are going backwards is in my mind almost comical, yes to a degree this is part of its function but 90% of these lights job is to aid reversing.

Do any of you guys actually own a RX400h ? have you actually ever driven one backwards in the pitch dark ? going on my experience last night with this car having black glass in the rear plus the fact the rear window is small and obscured by the rear head restraints and the rear of the car is quite high and the door mirrors will not give you a good enough angle when they tilt down when you engage reverse and the reversing camera is all but useless in the dark, I fail to see that you think this is not an issue ? the very reason for my being on this forum today is to find out if others have the same problem ? I have been driving for 26 years and have driven and owned many cars and without doubt there IS an issue with the lights on this car.

I can see how people who live in street light lit areas would not notice this issue but my drive is quite long and has trees and a long wall and I found it to be a problem.

As for Lexus and the way they will react to this issue, well what can they actually do about it ? unless they redesign the whole rear light cluster and then replace them all on every car they cant really do anything ? and I dont expect they would as this is called the evolution of the motor car, think how crap the first say Vauxhall Astra was, they were shocking and over time cars have evolved, But for people to turn round and say there is no problem with these reversing lights is a bit daft. As a driver of a large heavy car I want to be in 100% control at all times and going backwards when I cant actually see much is not on my list of fun activities.

[Vicmeldrew]

I agree, my reversing lights do not light up my drive sufficiently, I usually open the door and peer into the gloom to see where I'm reversing.

[Alf59]

I think the reversing lights are really awful. Every car I've ever owned has had 2 reversing lights using 21w bulbs but for some reason, the RX uses 16w bulbs? The very dark rear screen tint is probably the main problem but also the positioning of the lights themselves - too high up I reckon (maybe this is why they're 16w, so as not to blind cars behind?) They would have been better if they'd been located with the fog lights on the bumper to throw more light on the road.

Having read the numerous posts about improving the lights, or rather, not being able to, I'm thinking of recessing 2 lights in the bumber and disconnecting the existing lights. This way I could use 2 x 21w bulbs (not LED) Another option might be to change the camera for one that operates in lower light conditions but additional light would be the best route I think?

Slightly off thread but still concerning lighting: I think the fog light switch seems daft. You can't have your rear fogs on unless your front fogs are on! If you're at the back of a line of traffic, you don't need your fronts on but have them on to allow the back ones to be on - hope this makes sense?! Why couldn't there be 2 switches (wifes RAV4 has independent switches)

[DanD]

You will find that in most if not all recent cars, you need to switch the front fog lights on in order to switch the rear one(s) - assuming, of course, that your car has front fog lights.

In fact, in a lot of new cars, all fog lights deactivate when you switch the headlights off. This it to prevent drivers from "forgetting" to switch their rear fog lamps when they are no longer required.

Not sure about the correlation between the power of the reversing lights and their position. A lot of SUVs have high mounted reversing lights, including the RX450h. Are these more powerful than in the RX400h?

[ISJason]

This certainly is a mad topic.. I have never given a thought to the state of illumination for the reversing lights. They are to warn other drivers.. they are not headlights you know.

[ColinBarber]

I think I've only reversed in complete darkness once in the RX, I managed it although the light put out by the reversing lights wasn't great. The low light sensitivity from the reversing camera on the series II RX is also very poor, this is much improved on all the new Toyota and Lexus vehicles.

I'm not really sure what the point of writing the letter was though, what response did you expect to get? It is just a feature of the vehicle.