Battery Pack Life Rx 400h

[Jonathan Walsh]

When the hybrid batteries failed in my 2007 RX400h in February 2014, the view of Lexus Twickenham was that complete replacement was required.

I wanted a second opinion (indeed I posted on here asking for recommendations: Boxbrownie was kind enough to help). With the prior blessing of Lexus Head Office Customer Care I had the car moved on a low loader at my sole expense to Lexus Edgware Road. Their diagnosis was identical to Lexus Twickenham, and indeed they carried out the work. The car was off the road for a week or so, and the bill was £2637.34 (plus the cost of the low loader, and a hire car throughout the time my car was off the road).

I had contacted Lexus head office before and after the Battery replacement, and I understand Lexus Edgware Road did as well.

The response of Lexus was:

"I was sorry to learn of the diagnosis from Lexus Edgware Road. Please accept my sincere apologies for the disappointment this has caused.

Naturally, we hope that our customers will not experience any problems with their vehicles. I regret this has not been the case. We rigorously test every aspect of the car before production commences. However, we sometimes have to react to unforeseen difficulties as they occur and, regrettably, we cannot guarantee that a part will not fail unexpectedly.

At the end of the warranty period we encourage our customers to invest in an extended warranty for further peace of mind. For those who do not choose this option, we do try to provide an out of warranty goodwill contribution where possible. Unfortunately, we cannot offer this support indefinitely and I regret to advise you we are unable to offer a contribution towards repairs costs on this occasion.

I am sorry we are unable to respond in a more positive manner and I realise our response will come as a further disappointment to you. For this I can only apologise."

Now of course I do not expect an indefinite warranty. However this was a relatively low-mileage car, owned by me from brand new, and serviced to exact Lexus' specification. At the least I would have expected curiosity into the problem from Lexus, if not a contribution to the expense, especially if this is a risk as microscopic as Colin Barber suggests.

[Roybus]

Hello all, this is my first post here. My wife's on the point of buying an 08 RX400h but before she does, I wonder if anyone can answer these questions:

1) is the starter battery's life reduced by going flat? this one had been parked up for a month and needed charging, so is there any benefit in replacing it with a new one, rather than just charging this one up?

2) how can I test the main drive batteries? This is the more basic spec model, without the big screen etc. Can I do anything with a multimeter or is there anything I should be looking at specifically on the dash that would indicate whether they're in good order or not?

3) the solar charger thing: do you simply plug it in to a standard fag lighter socket or does the socket need to be modified somehow?

Ta!

[ColinBarber]

Hi Roy

1) Standard 12v lead acid batteries do not like being discharged and can reduce its life. If it the original Battery then for the sake of £55 I'd get the Bosch replacement - try and get that as part of the deal and don't accept a different make, the Bosch Battery seems to be the only one that has a slightly higher capacity compared to the OEM and comes with a 5 year warranty. Having a new Battery and one with slightly higher capacity removes the need for 3) unless you are often leaving the vehicle for 2 weeks+

2) Not much you can do really. If there is an issue then the system would be throwing up a warning. You could insist on a Hybrid health check that Lexus dealers can perform. This isn't much more than checking the system for errors but you need the diagnostic equipment.

http://www.lexus.co.uk/hybrid/#/HybridHealthCheck

[Roybus]

Hi Roy

1) Standard 12v lead acid batteries do not like being discharged and can reduce its life. If it the original battery then for the sake of £55 I'd get the Bosch replacement - try and get that as part of the deal and don't accept a different make, the Bosch battery seems to be the only one that has a slightly higher capacity compared to the OEM and comes with a 5 year warranty. Having a new battery and one with slightly higher capacity removes the need for 3) unless you are often leaving the vehicle for 2 weeks+

2) Not much you can do really. If there is an issue then the system would be throwing up a warning. You could insist on a Hybrid health check that Lexus dealers can perform. This isn't much more than checking the system for errors but you need the diagnostic equipment.

http://www.lexus.co.uk/hybrid/#/HybridHealthCheck

Great info Colin. I've just been perusing other threads and found the Bosch Battery - 444771587 I believe.

I'm going to ask them to charge it up tomorrow morning then pop over there at lunchtime to give it another look over, test the electrics etc.

So is there nothing I csn learn from the multifunction display? If the drive Battery is fully charged, how far should you be able to travel, and does it have an eco mode or whatever, where you can force it to run on Battery power alone?

[Boxbrownie]

As Colin said, the only real way to check the hybrid Battery is to get a "health check" carried out by a local dealer.

[ColinBarber]

So is there nothing I csn learn from the multifunction display? If the drive battery is fully charged, how far should you be able to travel, and does it have an eco mode or whatever, where you can force it to run on battery power alone?

No not really. The 400h doesn't have an EV mode, you cannot force electric only and you cannot force the Battery to fully charge either - it is completely automated. If there is a problem with the hybrid system you will get engine check warnings. The best you can do is go on an extended run to make sure warnings don't come up (just in case they had been reset at the showroom and there is a problem).

[DanD]

Re Jonathan's post...

I wonder whether the failure of the Battery pack may have been linked in anyway to the previous general electrical failure caused by water ingress through the blocked sunroof drain. I also wonder whether, if indeed failure was caused by water, his car insurance may have paid up for the Battery pack replacement...

[Boxbrownie]

Well he took it to two different main dealers so of course one of them should have spotted something like that

It would have saved him a bunch of money (less excess) if that was the case, but presumably when the failed pack was removed no evidence of water ingress was noticed.

[Roybus]

Right we've taken the plunge and will be picking up Mrs Roybus's 400h tomorrow. Dealer has fitted a new Battery. Thanks for everyone's advice.

Just to be clear, if the key is turned to start, the Battery is less likely to drain but if it's not, and a door is left open or whatever, that could spell trouble?

Also, regarding solar chargers, do you just plug them in to a fag lighter socket, or is there more to it than that?

Now to see if I can get an NX as my next company car!

[ColinBarber]

When the vehicle is in 'Ready' state the hybrid system is providing all power and the 12v aux Battery is being charged. Before that the 12v Battery provides power so yes leaving the doors open, lights on without the key in the ignition is using the 12v aux Battery.

Not sure if all the 12v sockets are live when the key is removed, I'm sure the one in the boot is always live as I used to have a powered cool box. Plug something in, like a phone charger, to test. If it is live then yes you just plug it in - these devices should have a diode in them to prevent the charge reversing when there is no light.

[Jonathan Walsh]

Many thanks for DanD’s and Boxbrownie’s queries.

I wondered too if the two complete electrical failures were linked. Lexus Twickenham fixed the car the first time, and examined
it the second time, and I would have hoped they would have picked up any connection; there was only a few months between the two incidents.

A blocked sunroof drain caused the first electrical collapse. This evidenced itself by the electrical failure, obviously, and the same error codes on the dash that showed themselves when (later) the hybrid batteries died. I didn’t notice at the time, but there was also faint water staining on the inside trim on the nearside A pillar, which is the route (I understand) of the pipes which
drain rainwater away from the sunroof aperture.

When I complained earlier this year to Lexus head office about the failure of the hybrid batteries I brought to their attention that there had been another complete electrical failure a matter of months before, and so they too had an opportunity to make a link. As I comment in a post above, the Lexus head office was uncurious and unhelpful.

I struggle with the confidence that previous posters have in the infallibility of the hybrid batteries; my personal Lexus hybrid Battery failure rate is 100%.

[Fezziwig]

I have owned x2 RX300s and now my 350, thinking of moving to 400h or even 450h, any advice out there, main concern back g no experience of hybrids is the Battery life, looking at 2009 400h or early 450h

[Herbie]

As long as your car successfully passes a 'hybrid health check' (available as a 'stand alone- item for about £60 or free with a service at Lexus dealerships) every year, Lexus warranty the 288V traction Battery for up to 15 years with (as far as I know) no mileage limit.

The 12V Battery is just a standard car Battery and subject to normal manufacturers warranty.

[Mainsail]

My 2005 Lexus RX400h is - at the age of 19 years - still running fine on its original traction battery-pack and sailed through the Lexus main dealer Battery check again only last week. The original little 12-volt starting Battery has been replaced twice - always using batteries supplied by Lexus.