Opinions Please

[passman53]

Hello,

For the last two years i've happily driven my mk 4 LS and prior to that a mk 3. No problems, no unexpected bills, just put in petrol. Now i'm in the position to change for something a little bit newer.

Until recently I just expected to get myself a LS430 however I've been reading about electrical problems and worse still the saga of the rear height sensors-sounds expensive. I doubt if I can afford dealer prices so its unlikely I will have any sort of warranty. If I go for a GS 430 I can avoid the potential Height sensor problem BUT, my wife -who can barely tell a Mini from a Merc- took a look at a GS and said "oh thats nowhere near as imposing is it? It's up to you though."

So What would you do? LS or GS either way my number plates not going to be right either

[ManicMark]

I would stick with the ls 400 untill the price of the 460s come down, when i looked for mine a couple of people had upgraded to the 430 & said they prefered the 400 ( they might have just been saying that though) I am a hgv instructor & one of my ex pupils was a mechanic with Lexus Woodford, he said the mark4 ls 400 was the best car lexus has produced ( especialy from build quality a mechanics point of view). So if your happy with what youve got why change it. As they say the grass isn't always greener on the outher side.

[Rob]

why would it have to be imposing???? the GS looks far better in my opinion, it doesnt have to be fancy or is it a "keep up with the neighbours" sytle/attitude?

[jamesholden]

It depends on what your after, in my opinion though, the GS's are well engineered cars, but the MKI-IV LS's were over-engineered, which to me makes them better. Sometimes it's better the devil you know, if there's nothing wrong with it and you still like the car then why change it just to get something a bit newer?

[mikesands]

i've just gone the opposite way. Had a GS300 for 5 years - was going to trade it in for a GS450H, but after a couple of test drives realised that they have made them too sporting for me. Noise and ride of the 450 were worse than the 300 (low profile tyres I guess). After the second test drive saw a 2001 LS430 sitting on the forecourt, and within 100 yards of driving it knew that the qualities of the LS range were really what I wanted .... I'm still trying to get back to the ride and smoothness of a 4.2litre 6 cyl Jag I had about 20 years ago, and the LS430 is definitely on a par.

If you want a sports car dressed up a a mid range family saloon the GS450H is amazing ... if you want a luxury executive ride the LS is the answer. I too am worried about the ride height sensors, but I'm going to talk to my guy about how to stop them corroding .... surely it can't be that difficult using some of these kinds of chemicals ACF50

Mike

[OluGTR]

Hello,

For the last two years i've happily driven my mk 4 LS and prior to that a mk 3. No problems, no unexpected bills, just put in petrol. Now i'm in the position to change for something a little bit newer.

Until recently I just expected to get myself a LS430 however I've been reading about electrical problems and worse still the saga of the rear height sensors-sounds expensive. I doubt if I can afford dealer prices so its unlikely I will have any sort of warranty. If I go for a GS 430 I can avoid the potential Height sensor problem BUT, my wife -who can barely tell a Mini from a Merc- took a look at a GS and said "oh thats nowhere near as imposing is it? It's up to you though."

So What would you do? LS or GS either way my number plates not going to be right either

Greetings,

I would list your requests like so:

1. LS 400: The very best indeed. Like you described, put in petrol and drive. What more do you want? I posted this same question you're asking when I joined the club a couple of months ago. After sampling the LS 400, 430 and the GS430, I have to honestly say the LS400 has no equal. (With the greatest respect to the LS430 and GS430 which are also fantastic machines by the way.)

2. GS430: If you must change then the GS430 is less expensive to run than the LS430. I'm assuming we're talking about the MKII GS? It's also deceptively quick!! 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds is no joke. No air suspension means running costs are reasonable. Also looks quite discreet with subtle badges or you can remove them if you wish. That would surprise a lot of boy racers at the lights...

3. LS 430: A great machine with a lot of toys. Seriously refined and luxurious. Only downside is there is a lot more to go wrong but I must stress that these are still reliable vehicles. Far more dependable than the usual suspects from Stuttgart, Munich and Ingolstadt...

So, as you can see, the choice is yours. Me? Well, here's my answer... bbs.scoobynet.com/.../9500-jd-power-2001-full-results-table.html

Goodnight.

[OluGTR]

Hello,

For the last two years i've happily driven my mk 4 LS and prior to that a mk 3. No problems, no unexpected bills, just put in petrol. Now i'm in the position to change for something a little bit newer.

Until recently I just expected to get myself a LS430 however I've been reading about electrical problems and worse still the saga of the rear height sensors-sounds expensive. I doubt if I can afford dealer prices so its unlikely I will have any sort of warranty. If I go for a GS 430 I can avoid the potential Height sensor problem BUT, my wife -who can barely tell a Mini from a Merc- took a look at a GS and said "oh thats nowhere near as imposing is it? It's up to you though."

So What would you do? LS or GS either way my number plates not going to be right either

Greetings,

I would list your requests like so:

1. LS 400: The very best indeed. Like you described, put in petrol and drive. What more do you want? I posted this same question you're asking when I joined the club a couple of months ago. After sampling the LS 400, 430 and the GS430, I have to honestly say the LS400 has no equal. (With the greatest respect to the LS430 and GS430 which are also fantastic machines by the way.)

2. GS430: If you must change then the GS430 is less expensive to run than the LS430. I'm assuming we're talking about the MKII GS? It's also deceptively quick!! 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds is no joke. No air suspension means running costs are reasonable. Also looks quite discreet with subtle badges or you can remove them if you wish. That would surprise a lot of boy racers at the lights...

3. LS 430: A great machine with a lot of toys. Seriously refined and luxurious. Only downside is there is a lot more to go wrong but I must stress that these are still reliable vehicles. Far more dependable than the usual suspects from Stuttgart, Munich and Ingolstadt...

So, as you can see, the choice is yours. Me? Well, here's my answer... bbs.scoobynet.com/.../9500-jd-power-2001-full-results-table.html

Goodnight.

JD Power Survey 2001 Results UK.

1. Lexus LS400

2. Toyota Yaris

3. Lexus GS300

4. BMW 7-Series

5. Rover 75

6. Lexus IS200

7. Jaguar XJ-Series

8. Mercedes-Benz E-Class

9. BMW 5-Series

10. Toyota Camry

11. Mercedes-Benz C-Class

12. Skoda Octavia

13. Mazda 626

14. Subaru Forester

15. Toyota Starlet

16. Volvo S80

17. Jaguar S-Type

18. Toyota Corolla

19. Mercedes-Benz S-Class

20. Toyota Land Cruiser

21. Suzuki Wagon R

22. Subaru Legacy

23. Toyota Picnic

24. Audi A6

25. Porsche Boxster

26. Nissan QX

27. Daewoo Matiz

28. Volvo S70

29. BMW 3-Series

30. Porsche 911

31. Toyota Avensis

32. Audi TT

33. SAAB 9-5

34. Skoda Felicia

35. Volkswagen Bora

36. Jaguar XK-Series

37. Honda Accord

38. Mazda Xedos 6

39. Mazda Demio

40. Nissan Micra

41. Honda Intergra R

42. Mitsubishi Colt

43. Subaru Impreza

44. Volvo V70

45. SEAT Toldeo

46. Toyota MR2

47. Mitsubishi Galant

48. Audi A8

49. Audi A4

50. Hyundai Sonata

51. Honda CR-V

52. Honda Civic

53. Toyota RAV4

54. Mercedes-Benz SL-Class

55. Daewoo Leganza

56. Audi A3

57. BMW Z3

58. Mitsubishi Spacewagon

59. Volvo S40

60. Citroen Xantia

61. Mercedes-Benz CLK

62. Mercedes-Benz A-Class

63. Renault Safrane

64. SAAB 9-3

65. Daihatsu Sirion

66. Mazda MX-5

67. Daihatsu Grand Move

68. Mercedes-Benz SLK

69. Honda HR-V

70. Nissan Almera

71. Mitsubishi Space Star

72. Mazda 323

73. Volvo V40

74. Isuzu Trooper

75. Honda Prelude

76. Perodua Nippa

77. Suzuki Grand Vitara

78. Hyundai Lantra

79. Nissan Patrol

80. Toyota Celica

81. SEAT Cordoba

82. Nissan Primera

83. Honda Shuttle

84. Mitsubishi Carisma

85. Volkswagen Lupo

86. Ford Fiesta

87. Mitsubishi Shogun

88. Proton Persona

89. Renault Laguna

90. Daihatsu Cuore

91. Hyundai Atoz

92. Mazda 121

93. SEAT Arosa

94. Volkswagen Passat

95. Alfa Romeo 166

96. Proton Coupe

97. Vauxhall Corsa

98. Rover 400 Series

99. Mercedes-Benz M-Class

100. Ford Ka

101. Renault Clio

102. Hyundai Accent

103. Daewoo Nubria

104. Volkswagen Golf

105. Hyundai Coupe

106. Suzuki Alto

107. Ford Focus

108. Ford Scorpio

109. Daewoo Lanos

110. Peugeot 406

111. Daihatsu Charade

112. Kia Pride

113. Nissan 200SX

114. Rover 200 Series

115. Volkswagen Polo

116. Audi Cabriolet

117. Peugeot 306

118. Ford Puma

119. SEAT Alhambra

120. Peugeot 806

121. Volkswagen Beetle

122. Ford Mondeo

123. Kia Mentor

124. Vauxhall Omega

125. Citroen Xsara

126. Daihatsu Terios

127. Jeep Cherokee

128. Alfa Romeo 156

129. Peugeot 206

130. Subaru Justy

131. Nissan Terrano II

132. Chysler Voyager

133. Jeep Grand Cherokee

134. Suzuki Swift

135. Proton Persona Compact

136. Land Rover Discovery

137. Suzuki Baleno

138. Ford Escort

139. Renault Megane

140. Chysler Neon

141. Peugeot 106

142. Vauxhall Astra

143. Vauxhall Zafira

144. Ford Galaxy

145. Fiat Marea

146. Ford Cougar

147. SEAT Ibiza

148. Renault Scenic

149. Rover 800 Series

150. Vauxhall Vectra

151. Fiat Brava

152. Suzuki Jimny

153. Citroen Berlingo

154. Renault Espace

155. Fiat Seicento

156. Daihatsu Fourtrak

157. Toyota Previa

158. Citroen Synergie

159. Jeep Wrangler

160. Rover 200 Series

161. Vauxhall Tigra

162. Fiat Punto

163. Alfa Romeo 145

164. Land Rover Range Rover

165. Volkwagen Sharan

166. Lotus Elise

167. Land Rover Freelander

168. Fiat Coupe

169. Citroen Saxo

170. TVR Chimaera

171. Alfa Romeo 146

172. Fiat Bravo

173. Rover MGF

174. Ford Explorer

175. Nissan Serena

176. Rover Mini

177. Kia Sportage

178. Fiat Ulysse

179. Vauxhall Frontera

180. Alfa Romeo GTV/Spider

181. Mercedes-Benz V-Class

182. Vauxhall Sintra

Ads by GoogleBlue Bell Bodyshop

Cheshire based car body repairers. Specialises in prestige vehicles.

www. bluebellbodyshop. comNeed A New Car Mirror ?

Full Wing Mirrors, Seperate Glass And Covers. Painted Or Standard

www. WingMirrorMan. co. ukNissan Qashqai Warrington

Unbeatable Prices On New & Used Nissan - Call 0844 248 8427

www. Motorparks. co. uk/ NissanOfficial Land Rover Site

Explore The Full Land Rover Range Check Out Our Current Promotions

www.landrover.co.uk

[dave1]

JD Power Survey 2001 Results UK.

88. Proton Persona

Bought my wife a Persona SRI 1834cc DOHC new in 1997. Still going strong after 100+k miles with no problems except service items, although she has just damaged n/s front. The Persona was based on Mitzi Lancer drivetrain from which Evo came also. Latest Protons are based on Renault Clio drivetrain and seem very reliable, or certainly my daughter's has been.

Too much notice is taken of these surveys which are only representative of the people polled who actually take the trouble to respond.

[ManicMark]

JD Power Survey 2001 Results UK.

88. Proton Persona

Bought my wife a Persona SRI 1834cc DOHC new in 1997. Still going strong after 100+k miles with no problems except service items, although she has just damaged n/s front. The Persona was based on Mitzi Lancer drivetrain from which Evo came also. Latest Protons are based on Renault Clio drivetrain and seem very reliable, or certainly my daughter's has been.

Too much notice is taken of these surveys which are only representative of the people polled who actually take the trouble to respond.

88 isnt to shody, comes above a ford focus or a vw golf both good cars, protons are under rated though ( make a good used buy)

[OluGTR]

JD Power Survey 2001 Results UK.

88. Proton Persona

Bought my wife a Persona SRI 1834cc DOHC new in 1997. Still going strong after 100+k miles with no problems except service items, although she has just damaged n/s front. The Persona was based on Mitzi Lancer drivetrain from which Evo came also. Latest Protons are based on Renault Clio drivetrain and seem very reliable, or certainly my daughter's has been.

Too much notice is taken of these surveys which are only representative of the people polled who actually take the trouble to respond.

I agree with you Dave, but these reliability surveys do give us a rough indication of how the cars would behave during their period of ownership. Looking at the above list, I'm sure the cars in the top 100 are not that bad. Saying that though, when you look at the last 15 or 20 cars on the list, I'm not surprised they are at the bottom of the pile!! The Lexus brand has done a fantastic job because ever since the JD Power Survey was launched in the UK almost a decade ago, they've always occupied one of the top three positions. Bear in mind that the survey has been in America for even longer and Lexus has been racking up the awards since the mid nineties.

[JellyBean]

JD Power is not a pure reliability survey. It is a Customer Satisfaction Index - or something - and manuafacturers who bend over backwards to be nice to their customers do well, when their products may not be that reliable. E.g. Jaguar.

A better survey for reliability would be to see AA/RAC breakdown stats, but these are not released to the public.

[Chris Skelton]

It's the 'itchy feet' syndrome. We get so used to what we have, we think we need something new. But, like you, I have a Ser 4 LS. And I also think about changing. But what for? It's more than we need for our needs already!

I get the same way with hi-fi, but am the same there too!

Stick with it; enjoy swishing about with that great stereo playing. If it's not broke.......

[JellyBean]

It's the 'itchy feet' syndrome. We get so used to what we have, we think we need something new. But, like you, I have a Ser 4 LS. And I also think about changing. But what for? It's more than we need for our needs already!

I get the same way with hi-fi, but am the same there too!

Stick with it; enjoy swishing about with that great stereo playing. If it's not broke.......

Sound advice. (No pun intended.)

[lexusmadman]

Hello,

For the last two years i've happily driven my mk 4 LS and prior to that a mk 3. No problems, no unexpected bills, just put in petrol. Now i'm in the position to change for something a little bit newer.

Until recently I just expected to get myself a LS430 however I've been reading about electrical problems and worse still the saga of the rear height sensors-sounds expensive. I doubt if I can afford dealer prices so its unlikely I will have any sort of warranty. If I go for a GS 430 I can avoid the potential Height sensor problem BUT, my wife -who can barely tell a Mini from a Merc- took a look at a GS and said "oh thats nowhere near as imposing is it? It's up to you though."

So What would you do? LS or GS either way my number plates not going to be right either

Greetings,

I would list your requests like so:

1. LS 400: The very best indeed. Like you described, put in petrol and drive. What more do you want? I posted this same question you're asking when I joined the club a couple of months ago. After sampling the LS 400, 430 and the GS430, I have to honestly say the LS400 has no equal. (With the greatest respect to the LS430 and GS430 which are also fantastic machines by the way.)

2. GS430: If you must change then the GS430 is less expensive to run than the LS430. I'm assuming we're talking about the MKII GS? It's also deceptively quick!! 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds is no joke. No air suspension means running costs are reasonable. Also looks quite discreet with subtle badges or you can remove them if you wish. That would surprise a lot of boy racers at the lights...

3. LS 430: A great machine with a lot of toys. Seriously refined and luxurious. Only downside is there is a lot more to go wrong but I must stress that these are still reliable vehicles. Far more dependable than the usual suspects from Stuttgart, Munich and Ingolstadt...

So, as you can see, the choice is yours. Me? Well, here's my answer... bbs.scoobynet.com/.../9500-jd-power-2001-full-results-table.html

Goodnight.

[nesponge]

sounds like a prime time to start upgrading your LS

start with changing the centre console for something a little more personal... fit yourself a small touch screen computer and add Bluetooth and wireless.

there's plenty of things you can do to "liven up" an old car.

[lexusmadman]

hi i have a ls430 03 reg it is the worst lexus i have owned , the electric seats the mem does not reset , the steering up and down does not work , the suspension after a service takes for ever to go up , the qualty of the leather on the drivers seat and centre arm rest is rubbish , the front to rear air con pipe had a hole in it , the electric fold mirrors have a mind of there own , front wishbone bushies replaced , key prog had to be reset , and the sat nav has now stopped working £2700 for a new dvd reader , i have had the car two and a half years , i bought it with 100000 on flsh , it has now 150000 on , i am a mechanic by trade and service it my self , i do 500 miles a week and i have lpg converted it , it is the third lexus i have owned , i buy them at about 100000 miles because the price is right , i had a gs300 1997 mk1 bought at 100k sold at 180k bullet proof i did not put a spanner on it apart from service it , i had a ls 400 1998 mk4 sat nav , bought at 102k sold at 168 k bullet proof the same , just serviced it , all three cars i have gas coverted , the only one to have problems the ls430 not the car the lpg system , my sons have lexus cars to , one has a ls430 51 reg no promlems , the other a gs430 02 reg no problems , and my friend has a 01 ls430 with no problems , so to sum up this time round i bought the wrong one , still love the car and would buy another , all the best colin .

[steveskeggy]

Well I have had both the 400 And the 430 which I have now.

Now, dont get me wrong, the 430 is a great car, if you bought the right one you would not be dissapointed, the gadgets are good, the ride is as you would expect from an LS, and in my opinion the 430 engine is a slightly better wngine than the 400, especially at higher speed where that little bit of extra torque makes a difference.

However.

The 400 in the shape of the Mk4 feels finished, its not a physical "look how much better it is" thing, it just has that feeling of something that has been improved on previous versions and made better, not saying it is, but it just has that feeling.

The 430 doesnt, it has the feeling that it could be improved on, not bad, but could be slightly better.

If you used Windows XP when it first came out, then used it Just before Vista came out, you will know what I mean, stil does the same, just feels finished.

This is all based on my two cars, a 98 LS400 with DHP and a 2002 LS430.

So me, I would just look for a later 400, unless I could afford an 04 or later 430 or a 460.

As far as the GS is concerned, personally I dont like the interior, but thats just my opinion.

Then of course your wife spoke those five fateful words:

It's up to you though.

Which translated from Womenspeak means:

You CAN buy one, but you will be eating celery and sleeping with the dog until you get rid of it..

[scandy]

Well I have had both the 400 And the 430 which I have now.

Now, dont get me wrong, the 430 is a great car, if you bought the right one you would not be dissapointed, the gadgets are good, the ride is as you would expect from an LS, and in my opinion the 430 engine is a slightly better wngine than the 400, especially at higher speed where that little bit of extra torque makes a difference.

However.

The 400 in the shape of the Mk4 feels finished, its not a physical "look how much better it is" thing, it just has that feeling of something that has been improved on previous versions and made better, not saying it is, but it just has that feeling.

The 430 doesnt, it has the feeling that it could be improved on, not bad, but could be slightly better.

If you used Windows XP when it first came out, then used it Just before Vista came out, you will know what I mean, stil does the same, just feels finished.

This is all based on my two cars, a 98 LS400 with DHP and a 2002 LS430.

So me, I would just look for a later 400, unless I could afford an 04 or later 430 or a 460.

As far as the GS is concerned, personally I dont like the interior, but thats just my opinion.

Then of course your wife spoke those five fateful words:

It's up to you though.

Which translated from Womenspeak means:

You CAN buy one, but you will be eating celery and sleeping with the dog until you get rid of it..

Very true regards the womenspeak comment!

I've had an LS400 Mk4 and it was a wonderful magic carpet - the review at the time said it was a motorised armchair and in a straight line it was, however I always felt the handling was a little too wooly around corners if you happened to hit a corner a bit too quick (though I never drove a DHP version to be fair). As a motorway car it can't be beaten though. Switched to the GS430's then found the GS430 sport - must admit I don't mind a harsh ride for good handling (GS430 Mk2 ok but sport a lot tighter) so all depends on your preference - reliability wise always found the MKII's (post the 2000 facelift) to be very reliable.

I know someone who's got an 05 MKIII GS430 and it's been back to Lexus so often it's a standing joke - they've had a lot of build quality problems with cheap clips holding the trim in coming loose, gearbox issues too amongst other things. I'm sure the MK III is reliable but I've been put right off ever going to a MK III once it's time to change the 430 sport - I don't like the back end either but it's a matter of personal taste of course.

Out of interest, does the last of the LS430's (sep 2003 onwards) have the same issues with corroding sensors as the previous version? That's the only car I'd consider going to, as apparently the last of the LS430's had half decent handling for such a large car - I like the shape too - reminds me of an update to the LS400 Mk4. But if they haven't fixed the corroded sensors issue from the first LS430 that's a potentially big problem for me.

[Nitmoi]

Its clearly the LS or the GS not the 400 or 430.

The answer is the LS400. The MkIII is fine.

I'm not sure the MkIV is better for the TV screen and expensive route map upgrades!

Its also a design classic unsurpassed in beauty. IMHO

[JellyBean]

Its clearly the LS or the GS not the 400 or 430.

The answer is the LS400. The MkIII is fine.

I'm not sure the MkIV is better for the TV screen and expensive route map upgrades!

Its also a design classic unsurpassed in beauty. IMHO

But Mk IV also has traction control and another gear - two BIG improvements. And more airbags ! Quite a bit better IME*HO.

*even

[Nitmoi]

OK the extra gear is worthwhile, but I don't trust traction control. I like to be in charge even when its going mammeries up.

Ever so umble ere too!

[ManicMark]

For me the traction control & snow mode is a must. I drive in Germany in the winter (snow & ice) without it I would be going nowhere unless I fit snow chains,it works well on wet grass slopes aswell. You can turn it off if you want. Dont get me wrong the mark3 is a great car I looked at loads when I was buying. The mark4 is better though & well worth the extra few hundred pounds.

[Nitmoi]

Fair enough. Snow here 3 days a year. It would be off most of the time then.

I'll review the MkIV then...

[JellyBean]

Fair enough. Snow here 3 days a year. It would be off most of the time then.

Don't need snow to execute an inadvertant sideways whoopsie in an LS400 without traction control - rain will do just fine.

[Ruud]

Fair enough. Snow here 3 days a year. It would be off most of the time then.

Don't need snow to execute an inadvertant sideways whoopsie in an LS400 without traction control - rain will do just fine.

We have rain here about 360 days a year :)

Never had a 'sideways whoopsie' yet and I am not easy on the throttle ;)