Cambelt / 60k - What's A Reasonable Quote

Parthiban · October 29, 2009

I can understand labour rates being more expensive but the parts ???

It's simple economics mate, everything down here costs more.

The warehouse where the parts are stored costs more.

The staff that process your parts order cost more.

The packaging that the parts go in for postage will cost more.

Every single link in the chain costs more, need I go on, or do you get the picture? :)

Just because the cars cost the same across the country (because they are standardised) doesn't mean everything else should be. In reality it is a well known fact that second hand cars are cheaper outside London......so your logic falls down there as well.

gokhan · October 31, 2009

well all of a sudden this discussion is very relevant to me becuase the garage whom i left my is200 with have called and said my cambelt is worn , so needs changing and so do both idler's and they are quoting me £500 which i think is a bit much for an indie as lexus wanted £450 , so im confused as looking on here a cambelt + Idelers & tensioner change should cost between £350-400 max or is this the London thing kicking in again

any advice on the issue would be welcomed

ps the price includes 1hr of diagnostics i think although cant say for sure

Parthiban · October 31, 2009

If Lexus quoted £450 (which sounds reasonable as mine including the service was £695) and the indie is asking for £500 - that is exactly the argument I was making about independents, it's so hard to know who's genuine and who isn't. At Lexus I know exactly what to expect, and they very rarely let me down.

Who is your nearest Lexus dealer? If you're near Woodford, give them a ring and ask how much it would cost as they're generally very reasonable and service is top notch.

gokhan · October 31, 2009

The problem is once you give your car to the indie they have you by the balls because if you say i want the car back they charge you 1-2 hrs labour which negats the saving you would have made elsewhere plus there's the time and hassle involved but i will be ringing my guy who comes recommended by people on these very forums and be asking him how long a cambelt including tensioner and idler + a water pump takes to fit , i estimate 4+ hrs , so i will offer to supply the parts at a cost of £230 and expect to pay £280 labour at least then i can say i had an extra item done if not i will go elsewhere because i cannot understand the breakdown of costs when a cambelt kit costs £130 (this comes with the idler, belt & tensioner)

Unless im missing something any advice would be appreciated

Parthiban · November 1, 2009

The problem is once you give your car to the indie they have you by the balls because if you say i want the car back they charge you 1-2 hrs labour which negats the saving you would have made elsewhere plus there's the time and hassle involved but i will be ringing my guy who comes recommended by people on these very forums and be asking him how long a cambelt including tensioner and idler + a water pump takes to fit , i estimate 4+ hrs , so i will offer to supply the parts at a cost of £230 and expect to pay £280 labour at least then i can say i had an extra item done if not i will go elsewhere because i cannot understand the breakdown of costs when a cambelt kit costs £130 (this comes with the idler, belt & tensioner)
Unless im missing something any advice would be appreciated

Yes I agree with what you're saying, and I think that's the best you can probably achieve in this situation. Tell him your short on cash, so can he come down on the labour rate - and you have a "mate" in the trade than can source the parts for you to save a bit in that area too (and then just find the cheapest cambelt kit you can and give it to them)

The only question I would ask myself is if you don't trust the pricing they've come up with, do you trust them replacing something as important as the cambelt?

I'm sorry you've had to deal with this but I think you've managed to settle the argument above quite easily with your experience. Hopefully you'll be able to get it done at reasonable cost :)

gokhan · November 1, 2009

Yeah i suppose i have , suffice to say next time i will be going to lexus at least i can verify quality if not price but again i have almost got to go with the indie this time because they started the job , if i pull out there's no guarantee ill get the car back decently , if i go ahead there's no guarantee the job will be done proper either way never again will i go to an indie

fil4362 · November 1, 2009

I still cant believe some people on here think they get a better standard of job when taken to a dealer. the bloody mechanic isnt a god because he has Lexus wrote on his overalls. Hes got the same tools and did the same course at collage as any other mechanic. Going to the dealer IS NOT dead cert for getting a job done properly. You and your car has the same rights were ever you take it. If you take your car to a dodgey looking arch way garage with a 12 year old looking mechanic expect to get a crap job, even if you do this you still have same rights as taking your car to a dealer. Any dealer not just Lexus. There is such a thing as trading standards in this country you know. and before anyone says it no you dont have a better chance of getting the job done right first time going to the dealer. Theres some people on here that are making out indies are all dodgy back street garages that rip people of and cant be trusted to do a job right. This infuriates me. Yes there are dodgey garages out there hell knows i have worked at some of them, but there not all bad. I also think you will find its not a dogey garage its a dogey Mechanic at that garage, who may get the sack for shoddy work and guess what his new job is at your local dealer and his first job is your car will he do any better job there just because he now has a dealer name on his overalls. NO hes the same mechanic he was last week with the same knowledge and tools. He may eventually do more courses spacific to his new company but this will be after his "trial" period so for his first 3 months the only diffrence is his overalls. Lets face it you hand your keys over and thats the last you know until its done for all you know they could be busy and nip your car to the indie down the road trust me this happens i know dealers that dont even do mot testing but you can drop your car with them to get it done, who does them ??? yep the indie down the road.

where the idea a timing belt kit cost £120 quid. If people want to pay £120 for them Send me your cash i will send you 2 for that money. I priced one recently £58 for 3 peice kit. Belt tensioner idler I will order on tomorow and put it on eBay will post the listing number on here should anyone wish to bid on it. Packaging and storage shouldnt be dearer where ever you are the bloody parts are not made in London so why pay London prices. Strictly speaking if your in London the prices should be cheaper than up here if they come in out of country chances are they come through or round London to get to me so i should be paying more not less.

As for buying your own parts Inides hate this I work my suppliers one against the other to provide better parts prices they out bid each other for my trade. I then put a mark up on the parts as afterall i have got the best discount. Maybe this is why i can get a timing belt kit for half the price everyone else can. If the kits £58 to me i would sell it out at £70/£80 this is still cheaper than your paying and i make a profit for doing nothing therefore i would keep my Labour prices down to what they should be. You getting your own parts would cut my profit and not make the usual indie happy. I personally would warrenty any job done when parts are supplied by the customer. If the Part fails its not my problem, if the part falls of this is my problem and the job would get fixed in full at my cost.

I was recenty ask by a memeber on here to do valve stem seals on his aristo. He said theres a method of doingi t without removing the head, ye there is he even printed the pics of this site to show me how to do it with a bit of drain pipe and a load of sticky tape. i refused the job. He has recently drove the car to oxford to a Lexus specialist he found on here who is dong it for him in the method i discribed above. That was 3 weeks ago he hasnt got his car back yet. You see for every dodgey back street garage theres a dodgey specialist to go work for him

Parthiban · November 2, 2009

The simple fact is someone who works only on Lexus/Toyota cars day in day out is easier to trust to do a better job on a Lexus/Toyota than someone who sees one once a month or whatever.

Therefore the Lexus dealer or independent Lexus specialist is always going to be more appealing than a perfectly competent general garage.

fil4362 · November 2, 2009

Still dont agree most mechanics i know never spend more than a few years at a dealers.

One of my contract company customers own everything from a skoda to the bosses porsche. The boss even owns a ferrarri 355 and a lincoln navigator i work on all of them. I still say experiance in the trade is more important than badge on your overalls.

If i was to pick a builder to work on my house i would rather pick a builder who has lots of good reviews but has a bit of a scruffy van and cant squeeze me in for a fews weeks because hes buzy than a builder with a spotless van and can do it tomorrow.

Seems to me your paying for your beliefs of getting a proper job under the Lexus badge, when in reality all your getting is any random mechanic with Lexus on his overalls. All mechanics start somehwere i would be suprised if any of the mechanics at your dealers started there and stay there long term. Your trusting Lexus because they are called Lexus when the only diffrence in the work is the price. Theres no such thing as a "better job" a job done right is a job done theres no way of doing it "better"

A mechanic is a mechanic doesnt matter what it says on his overalls. I dont care where a guy has worked, when its employment time all i want to know is how long he was at his last place and why he left what his qualifications are. Names on overalls dont impress me bottom line its all nuts and bolts doesnt matter about the badge on the overalls or the bonnet a car is a car a mechanic is a mechanic.

You only see the customer side of the trade i see mechanic side i hear the stories you dont get to hear, believe me dealers are no better than any other garage the only diffrence is the name on the overalls

Parthiban · November 2, 2009

The thing is, in most cases you do get a proper job done at a Lexus dealer. The worry is whether or not you will get a proper job elsewhere - in a lot of cases you will and you'll save money doing it, but the risk is that you may end up somewhere dodgy and then receive a world of pain.

fil4362 · November 3, 2009

The thing is, in most cases you do get a proper job done at a Lexus dealer. The worry is whether or not you will get a proper job elsewhere - in a lot of cases you will and you'll save money doing it, but the risk is that you may end up somewhere dodgy and then receive a world of pain.

Your point is exactly why i sugested using the "good garage scheme". use the feed back on this web site to see if you choose to use a certain garage or not, It works the same as feedback on ebay. Read the garages history if you dont like them dont use them. Never ever presume your going to get a job jod just because you go to the dealers.

In the last month i have a a focus brought to me fromt he ford dealers with a half stripped engine. The car only went in for a service. 58 plate car with 10,000 on the clock. Dealers had the car all day when customer rang to to see if it was ready he was told they had only just started the head gasket. Head gasket the customer asked it only came in for service. He was told as part of the service the cooling system is presure tested and the gauge used showed a drop in presure and as there was no leak it must be the head gasket.

Prior to service the car had never over heated or lost any water. I re built the engine and have personally put 600 miles on the car (with owners consent) pretty safe to say theres bugger all wrong with the head gasket. I presure tested the system myself no leaks no drop in presure the only explanation is either misuse of dealers presure gauge or total rip of attemtp.

Renault megane done today. reported at Renault Manchester for worn engine mounting. Owner rang me for quote. Car brought to me today to have job done. I stripped and removed the engine mounting then re fited it as there was nothing wrong with it at all. I photo graphed the mount while off the car and emailed the pic to Renault Manchester for an explanation as to why they recomended it changing. I didnt get a reply and nobody was available when i rang them. I didnt charge the customer for removing and refitting the mounting although she did stick a tenner in the lads christmas tip box.

Thats just 2 examples of poor work from dealers theres lots more like a customer being charged £240 to have the injection system "set up" . the car was under dealer warrenty but had not been serviced at the dealer although it had been serviced by a garage owned by a pal of mine. The dealers told the customer it had been set up wrong when serviced and the emissions were out.

I dont know what they did to repair the fault but i do know theres nothing you can or would adjust on the injection system of a fiat punto service. You can adjust the injection duration but not with the kit my pal has got and certainly not as part of the service. So would seem like the dealers charging for something they should have covered the cost of under warrenty.

If you wish for more examples of dealers being no better than indies just ask i have many. There are some dodgey indies out there but trust me theres as many dodgey dealers.

Parthiban · November 3, 2009

Fair enough, but you keep making references to Ford, Renault, etc. when we're all talking about Lexus. From my own personal experience, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW and Audi (which not always being perfect on customer service) never try to rip you off with work that doesn't need doing.

However, this did happen quite a lot with a Renault we had a few years ago, plus that thing liked falling to pieces on its own anyway.

So I understand where you're coming from, but despite the higher labour and parts rates, I haven't had any work done that didn't need doing.

gokhan · November 3, 2009

I still cant believe some people on here think they get a better standard of job when taken to a dealer. the bloody mechanic isnt a god because he has Lexus wrote on his overalls. Hes got the same tools and did the same course at collage as any other mechanic. Going to the dealer IS NOT dead cert for getting a job done properly. You and your car has the same rights were ever you take it. If you take your car to a dodgey looking arch way garage with a 12 year old looking mechanic expect to get a crap job, even if you do this you still have same rights as taking your car to a dealer. Any dealer not just Lexus. There is such a thing as trading standards in this country you know. and before anyone says it no you dont have a better chance of getting the job done right first time going to the dealer. Theres some people on here that are making out indies are all dodgy back street garages that rip people of and cant be trusted to do a job right. This infuriates me. Yes there are dodgey garages out there hell knows i have worked at some of them, but there not all bad. I also think you will find its not a dogey garage its a dogey Mechanic at that garage, who may get the sack for shoddy work and guess what his new job is at your local dealer and his first job is your car will he do any better job there just because he now has a dealer name on his overalls. NO hes the same mechanic he was last week with the same knowledge and tools. He may eventually do more courses spacific to his new company but this will be after his "trial" period so for his first 3 months the only diffrence is his overalls. Lets face it you hand your keys over and thats the last you know until its done for all you know they could be busy and nip your car to the indie down the road trust me this happens i know dealers that dont even do mot testing but you can drop your car with them to get it done, who does them ??? yep the indie down the road.
where the idea a timing belt kit cost £120 quid. If people want to pay £120 for them Send me your cash i will send you 2 for that money. I priced one recently £58 for 3 peice kit. Belt tensioner idler I will order on tomorow and put it on ebay will post the listing number on here should anyone wish to bid on it. Packaging and storage shouldnt be dearer where ever you are the bloody parts are not made in London so why pay London prices. Strictly speaking if your in London the prices should be cheaper than up here if they come in out of country chances are they come through or round London to get to me so i should be paying more not less.

As for buying your own parts Inides hate this I work my suppliers one against the other to provide better parts prices they out bid each other for my trade. I then put a mark up on the parts as afterall i have got the best discount. Maybe this is why i can get a timing belt kit for half the price everyone else can. If the kits £58 to me i would sell it out at £70/£80 this is still cheaper than your paying and i make a profit for doing nothing therefore i would keep my Labour prices down to what they should be. You getting your own parts would cut my profit and not make the usual indie happy. I personally would warrenty any job done when parts are supplied by the customer. If the Part fails its not my problem, if the part falls of this is my problem and the job would get fixed in full at my cost.

I was recenty ask by a memeber on here to do valve stem seals on his aristo. He said theres a method of doingi t without removing the head, ye there is he even printed the pics of this site to show me how to do it with a bit of drain pipe and a load of sticky tape. i refused the job. He has recently drove the car to oxford to a Lexus specialist he found on here who is dong it for him in the method i discribed above. That was 3 weeks ago he hasnt got his car back yet. You see for every dodgey back street garage theres a dodgey specialist to go work for him

Mate im not saying the indie's are all like the one i have come across but the fact is at least with a dealer i can kick up a fuss and have some sort comeback plus i get a complementary car from lexus with an indie especaily those that cliam to be lexus specailsts like the one that has my car and tells me there are 2 idlyers in a is200 i only have thier word behind this statement , hell if you or anyone know a decent garage or mechanic in London who can sort my is200 vibration which was why i went to thse idiots in the first place i will pay you for the infromation but simple fact is most indie's are worse than dealers (Mine has had my car for 2 damn weeks nearly)

As for the kit i ordered oem lexus parts from japparts who seem ok and i know mates who have used them before but next time i will give you a bell because you seem very knowledgable in this area , i mean by the sounds of it i would be better off drving up to mancester to see you rather the clueless bunch down here

I dont know whether to laugh or cry but i will shame this garage on here when i have my car back thats for sure !

fil4362 · November 3, 2009

It is personal choice at the end of the day who you take your car to.

Bottomline and what i am trying to get people to see is that just because it says Lexus or any other dealer name on the lads overalls hes still just a mechanic. Why pay more for the same service just because of a name. I can understand buying a better brand of product, i personally buy nescafe coffee rather than the super market own brand buthtis is something i am going to comsume.

Paying in excess of 70 quid an hour just for some grease monkey to undo a few nuts and bolts and put them back in again makes me cringe. The dealers up here charge 70 quid an hour as well so its not just the north south devide.

The point i keep making is a mechanic working with/for me gets paid £10 an hour. I charge the customer £36.75 an hour for his services. The dealers charge £70 an hour and still only pay their mechanics £10 an hour ( just refering to my area). If the dealers pay their mechanics the same as i do then they only value their mechanics as i do.

I know most of the garages within a 10 mile radius of where i am and non of them pay their lads more than a tenner an hour. All the indies in my area communicate with each other we borrow/lend kit of each other specialist tools such as certain timing belt pin setting kits. we use each others diagnostic kit my kit is a bosch kit so i great on german car but not so good on french stuff. The garage round the corner has a french diag machine so we each borrow each other kit. Its just an unwritten rule we dont activley nick each others customers. Most of the dealers in my area have either gone bust or closed down the branch and moved on. We have a ford dealer and 2 mercedes dealers and that about it. Rover gone anyway but nissan subarua vauxhall skoda all moved or shut down. The nearest Volvo dealer we have is 35 miles away and they charge for delivery now.Honda has a dealers about 9 miles away renault have a dealers as do citroen but there both on the otherside of Manchester city centre.Besides most of the "dealers " are not dealers they a franchised. The ford dealers near me is owned by the Pendragon group and is only a franchise as is the honda dealers. come t think of it there isnt even a fast fit tyre and exhaust centre near me ( not within 10 miles anyway). maybe its just the indies taking over in my little corner of the world and i only live 2 miles east of city centre Manchester.

JohnnyTsang · November 3, 2009

well mine is booked in this week.... 130 bux for the idler tensioner and belt

70 - 100 quid for labour ... happy days =)

and because i saved so much i bought these

MY bebo showing my alloys

gokhan · November 4, 2009

if thats anywhere in london mate and they do a decent job let me know because i need to get the same thing done + water pump

thanks

Maffison · November 5, 2009

if thats anywhere in london mate and they do a decent job let me know because i need to get the same thing done + water pump
thanks

Im soon to be booking mine in HERE for the 60k service with belt and water pump as they have had some good reviews on this forum in some old threads i found. I sent a message to them asking for a quote so hope to have a reply soon. They are in SE26, London.

gokhan · November 6, 2009

mate thats where i took mine thinking i would be good but to the contray be warned

Maffison · November 6, 2009

mate thats where i took mine thinking i would be good but to the contray be warned

Really? Care to share the horror story?

Parthiban · November 6, 2009

Oh was it Albin Motors? They come quite highly recommended by quite a few members - I think that proves my point that good reliable independents cost the same as Lexus (in London anyway) so there is no real difference.

Going on what I've heard, despite the cost at least you're in safe hands as far as the work is concerned.

Mike IS200 · November 6, 2009

Hi all,

My IS200 LE is due for its 60k/6 year service next March. My local indie has quoted £142 +vat for the belt, idler & tensioner

and labour is 3 hours @£50+vat p.h. I'll source the parts more cheaply myself.

They said they'll have a look at the water pump when their 'in there' so to speak. Hopefully should be o.k. as some 'o' rings were replaced by Lexus just before it came out of warranty.

Mike

Maffison · November 6, 2009

Hi all,
My IS200 LE is due for its 60k/6 year service next March. My local indie has quoted £142 +vat for the belt, idler & tensioner

and labour is 3 hours @£50+vat p.h. I'll source the parts more cheaply myself.

They said they'll have a look at the water pump when their 'in there' so to speak. Hopefully should be o.k. as some 'o' rings were replaced by Lexus just before it came out of warranty.

Mike

Hi Mike, what's the name of the garage? I'm quite close to you (chelmsford) so might get a quote done there too.

TonyGoose · November 6, 2009

Perhaps look here for some of the parts ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170393667241

75quid for genuine parts from Lexus dealer .....

TG

Hi all,
My IS200 LE is due for its 60k/6 year service next March. My local indie has quoted £142 +vat for the belt, idler & tensioner

and labour is 3 hours @£50+vat p.h. I'll source the parts more cheaply myself.

They said they'll have a look at the water pump when their 'in there' so to speak. Hopefully should be o.k. as some 'o' rings were replaced by Lexus just before it came out of warranty.

Mike

Parthiban · November 6, 2009

It says retail price is £95 - so whoever was quoting £2-300 earlier in this thread was just talking b*****s then

Mike IS200 · November 6, 2009

Hi all,
My IS200 LE is due for its 60k/6 year service next March. My local indie has quoted £142 +vat for the belt, idler & tensioner

and labour is 3 hours @£50+vat p.h. I'll source the parts more cheaply myself.

They said they'll have a look at the water pump when their 'in there' so to speak. Hopefully should be o.k. as some 'o' rings were replaced by Lexus just before it came out of warranty.

Mike

Hi Mike, what's the name of the garage? I'm quite close to you (chelmsford) so might get a quote done there too.

Hi

It's Westfield Motors, Rayleigh. 01268783205