Cambelt / 60k - What's A Reasonable Quote

[griderjn]

60,000 miles = 100,000 kilometers

$600-800.00 in the U.S. for timing belt (idler + tensioner) and water pump is average.

oil and filter, plugs, and radiator flush are also recommended at this time according to Toyota/Lexus.

Purchasing parts at Lexus or Toyota is not terrible, but it is not cheap.

I believe the recommended plugs are actually Denso instead of NGK, but that is not the point.

I prefer NGK to Denso, and I prefer Toyota Parts to Lexus, because they are usually the same, just different price.

I believe HKS even makes a tougher cheaper belt than OEM (Kevlar maybe?)

It is possible to find cheaper, and sometimes better parts in other venues.

If you have done a timing belt change before, then do it yourself.

If you have to ask, then yes, you will need assistance, and you should not do it yourself.

And I don't care how big of a loser you think I am, you should use compressed air to remove the crank pulley bolt,

not the ol' breaker bar planted, crank the engine trick... that is just stupid, it is a pointless risk that can end badly.

Yes, I realize that licensed mechanics do this in respectable garages, but if they screw something up, they pay for it, not you.

Not to mention they do it routinely, not once in a blue moon when it is time on their own autos.

And just remember, if you need to take it to a mechanic to finish the job, they hate that more than doing the work normally. Just a little FYI...

[fil4362]

Licensed mechanics !!!! now theres a thought.

Theres nothing in this country at all to say who can and cannot open a garage and start repairing cars. Theres also no governing bodies who come and check your work from time to time. Any one can start taking in work and repairing cars. MUst be diffrent in Japan and for the better i say

[James Marks]

And dont check your timing belt they just snap or rip the teeth of, you can remove the cover and have a look but if it looks ok what you going to do remove cover next week and have another look just change it when it due then forget about it until its due again.

Please DO check your timing belt while you're servicing the car. Yes, in most cars it's probably a waste of time, because it's difficult to see if a belt is going to have a catastrophic failure, BUT, on the IS200 engine it is very common for the belts to walk forward on the pulleys and wear the fronts of them off, and by the time some people come to change them, they get a shock to find a belt that's now only about 10mm wide (assuming it hasn't already gone). There are plenty of pictures of this on the forum.

It is easy enough to check the belt - there is a small cover down low that looks like it clips off, but it's probably easier to remove the top part of the timing cover which is just held on by 4 or 5 10mm bolts. For something this easy to do, it's worth the 15minutes it will take just to check nothing silly is going on in there, if not just for peace of mind.

[SUPERCOUPE]

wots the script with these cars....

in the manual it says 100k but everyone here is saying 60k?

mine is at 66k and is a 01 plate. hasnt been used much in the last two years ( 2000 miles if that ) until i got it.

is this going to be an urgent thing to get done or can i wait it out a few thousand more

The timing belt replacement interval was changed from 100,000 down to 60,000 miles, get it done VERY soon unless you have a lot of money to spend on a head rebuild. Remember to take into consideration that your car & belt is around 8 years old now.

The chance of using an air tool on the bottom pulley is very slim unless you wand to remove the rads of course.

£120 is IMO very reasonable for a timing belt kit whether it's Gates, Blueprint, or Toyota, (belt, idler & tensioner) & an uprated kevlar belt would cost near that on it's own.

There is a 'how to' guide on the forum, if you are doing it yourself.

[griderjn]

wots the script with these cars....

in the manual it says 100k but everyone here is saying 60k?

mine is at 66k and is a 01 plate. hasnt been used much in the last two years ( 2000 miles if that ) until i got it.

is this going to be an urgent thing to get done or can i wait it out a few thousand more

The timing belt replacement interval was changed from 100,000 down to 60,000 miles, get it done VERY soon unless you have a lot of money to spend on a head rebuild. Remember to take into consideration that your car & belt is around 8 years old now.

The chance of using an air tool on the bottom pulley is very slim unless you wand to remove the rads of course.

£120 is IMO very reasonable for a timing belt kit whether it's Gates, Blueprint, or Toyota, (belt, idler & tensioner) & an uprated kevlar belt would cost near that on it's own.

There is a 'how to' guide on the forum, if you are doing it yourself.

why not flush the radiator, and put some new antifreeze in it, it will be winter-time soon anyway?

removing the radiator is probably the easiest part of the whole process,

especially since flushing the radiator is part of the 100,000 kilometer service, which was never "changed"

as far back as i can remember, on every car i have ever owned, i have never been lucky enough to own a vehicle that used a timing chain instead,

60,000 miles (which, coincidentally, is very close to 100,000 kilometers) has always been the "timing belt replacement interval"

120,000 miles or 200,000 kilometers would be the next one, then 180,000 miles or 300,000 kilometers.

1 statute mile is equal to 1.609344 kilometers

60,000 multiplied by 1.609344 is equal to 96560.64

yeah, i realize it is not exactly 100,000

but the manufacturer suggests 100,000 kilometers first, and converts it to miles for England and U.S. spec vehicles.

so 100,000 kilometers is equal to 62137.119223733396961743418436332 statute miles, give or take.

but i would not wait the extra 2137.119223733396961743418436332 miles myself, i would just change it sooner than later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_ratchet

http://www.campingsurvival.com/new1airimwra.html

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Campbe...L1010/p179.html

for those too lazy to remove the radiator, but still want to use air,

my latest invention, no one has ever heard of it, a ratchet style impact wrench.

i call it the air ratchet...

Kevlar belts can be found that are competitively priced, whether OEM or aftermarket.

The timing belt itself makes up for the majority of the price of the set.

the idler and tensioner are not that expensive...

but you know what, you are 100% correct, do not use compressed air, or hardened sockets to remove the pulley bolt.

while you are at it, i can get you some SAE sockets to use since they fit better than the standard metric, who cares where it was manufactured.

i mean, what is an engineer anyway, just a guy who drives a locomotive right?

hell, why even change the timing belt at all, the damage done if it goes would be the same if you put a breaker bar with socket on the pulley bolt,

crank the engine, but only for a second, breaker bar comes loose, and engine turns over. pistons crunching valves, camshafts getting scratched up... fun stuff.

of course, when you are getting your -FE (as in 1G-FE) head rebuilt, you can add some much needed power, or just swap it with a 1G-G(T/Z)E head.

please people, refrain from giving advice just to plus one your number of posts.

there are people who genuinely trust the advice given in forums,

and i for one would feel terrible if i gave my opinion to someone about vehicle maintenance,

telling them how easy and simple it was, and then they screwed it up.

changing the timing belt is major maintenance. if you have to ask yourself, or someone else, "How do I..."

then you should probably have it done by a professional mechanic, or someone you trust.

[James Marks]

Wow, someone's angry...

And why would putting a breaker bar on the crank pulley cause piston/valve contact? Yes, it's not an ideal method for undoing the pulley bolt, but it's not exactly the crime of the century and it gets the job done. And also, as you seem to be calling everyone a bunch of idiots, I thought I'd point out that the timing belt interval was not always 60,000 miles with people just muddling up the conversion for km, it really was 100,000 MILES but Lexus reduced it.

Sorry to have to post this, but I seem to be seeing more and more people just leaving insulting and condescending messages (which I guess is a criticism you could level at this message if I'm honest) and it's not right.

[atce4]

holy crap guys i working in the wrong area. i got to shut up shop and move now. never ever in my life have i ever heard of anyone happy to pay Nearly £1000 for a service mot and timing belt change are you all mad. Iridium plugs are £38 quid for set of six air filter is £15 oil filter £10 good quality oil £25 quid. even an air con recharge is only £40 couple of litres of gear oil for diff and gear box £20 tops

Labour at my place is £37.50 an hour 1.5 hours for service 3 hours for t belt fitting as someone has mentioned a t belt kit from lexus is only £120 so whats that quick guess 270/280 ??

i know the service prices are right i recently did mine i bet the t belt is now where near £120 either ont he after market. Oh and no them service parts are not Lexus parts or even toyota for that matter but then Lexus and Toyota dont make there own service parts so the ones your getting are not dealer parts either. sorry guys i refuse to pay £60 for plugs that are made by ngk that come in a box labled toyota. As for warrenty, as long as you use O.E parts "or" equivelant it doesnt invalidate your warrenty. As trading standards wont allow the sale of non O.E standard parts any make will do even if you have to keep to warrenty.

When i service a car i change plugs, oil and filter. i check the air filter if its clean and will go another 10,000 leave it alone put it back in. If your aircon is icey cold, leave it alone dont touch it. if your pads have 3,000 miles left on them bring it back to me in 3,000 miles. dealers work to the service times. If your car gets serviced every 10,000 miles and you have 8,000 left on the pads the dealer will tell you there worn out and recomend you change them as they wont make it to your next service.

And dont check your timing belt they just snap or rip the teeth of, you can remove the cover and have a look but if it looks ok what you going to do remove cover next week and have another look just change it when it due then forget about it until its due again.

If only I could find a good independent garage in the London area that charges £37.50/hr I'd be very pleased, unfortunately that is very unlikely.

As for paying nearly £1000 for the work I had done..... no I wasn't happy but, rightly or wrongly, I am very wary as to who I let loose on my car. I can only go on others recommendations and the independent I used have a good reputation hence the reason I used them.

Not sure about your comment regarding the brake pads. Where safety is concerned if my pads only had 3000 miles left I think I'd prefer to get them changed there and then rather than wait until I hear the telltale signs of metal against metal! But that's just me I guess...

[fil4362]

Come on you can see your brake pads with out removing the wheels, 3000 miles on most peoples cars is 3 months driving. UNless your a motorway driver in which case your mileage is higher but you press your brakes less for that mileage. If you want to change your brake pads with 8,000 miles left on them fine personally i would bear it in mind there getting due, have a look at what the garage is actually talking about by checking the through the wheels when i got home, then simply keep an eye on them as i clean my wheels each week

Priced a timing belt set today £58 for 3 piece kit. must cost a fotune to have Toyota printed on the boxes the markup is incredable.

Good garage scheme is a good place to start if you want to look up an "indie" garage. Being an "indie" Lexus specialist or being any other specialist usually means they actually worked for that particular dealer for some time.

I know a guy who can claim to be saab, vauxhall,volkswagen, audi, seat, skoda, fiat lancia alfa romeo specialist. Thats a hole lot of specialists. Saab and vauxhall are same company and share engines volkswagen audi seat skoda all same company fiat lancia alfa romeo all same. At some point the companies mentioned have owned one an other hes worked at the agents/dealers for all of them but does that make him a specialist. He worked there passed there in house training courses, and while there, was one of their "techs". Personally i wouldnt use him on the basis hes a "specialist". Specialist in what?? leaving jobs??, getting sacked?? not doign the job right??. My personal opinion is anyone who changes jobs every 12 months is either not as good as he thinks he is or a power hungry time waster. Either that or all the dealers are crap and he wants to do it the right way!!

[JohnnyTsang]

sorry if i sounded confusing by saying 60k and 100 thousand miles i use the letter k to represent thousand and not kilometres

my booklet says 100 thousand miles for timing belt change... no matter getting a quick check done tommorow to see how it looks and if its needing itl be an early christmas present to myself... dam belts

[griderjn]

Wow, someone's angry...

And why would putting a breaker bar on the crank pulley cause piston/valve contact? Yes, it's not an ideal method for undoing the pulley bolt, but it's not exactly the crime of the century and it gets the job done. And also, as you seem to be calling everyone a bunch of idiots, I thought I'd point out that the timing belt interval was not always 60,000 miles with people just muddling up the conversion for km, it really was 100,000 MILES but Lexus reduced it.

Sorry to have to post this, but I seem to be seeing more and more people just leaving insulting and condescending messages (which I guess is a criticism you could level at this message if I'm honest) and it's not right.

not angry, just tired of seeing bad advice being given to people who need good advice.

Honestly, i could care less when you have your timing belt changed, or how you change it. I will never drive or own your car.

The guy asked for some advice, and everyone gave confusing/contradicting advice.

Personally, i changed the timing belt (and performed the local NETZ Toyota suggested 100,000 kilometer maintenance) just before my Altezza RS200z hit 100,000 kilometers. I am glad that i did. And i used an impact wrench to remove my pulley crank bolt. And yes, i removed my radiator so that i would have easy access to the crank pulley bolt with the gun style impact wrench. If i still own the car at 200,000 kilometers, i will most likely change the timing belt again, unless i inspect it before then and it requires changing.

if i came off as insulting and/or condescending i apologize. I was just speaking from personal experience.

[James Marks]

Fair play for apologising, and for what it's worth I do agree with the points you were making - there is a lot of bad advice out there, and you're certainly right in saying if you need to ask how to do jobs like this then you probably shouldn't be doing them yourself :D

[gokhan]

I was told by garage that it was 100k miles or 6 years so I'm going to get it done next year , should I just get it done now while it's in for other things ?

[atce4]

Good garage scheme is a good place to start if you want to look up an "indie" garage.

Here are a couple of quotes from garages in the The Good Garage Scheme taken totally at random that are within a 10 mile radius of where I live. I asked for the full 60k service plus brake fluid change and replacing of the spark plugs on my IS200. I also asked for the cambelt, tensioner and idler to be changed. I would guess the parts are probably Lexus ones. Sorry but can't get to the £300 or so you quoted...

Garage 1

60,000 mile service

4 hours Labour - £277.60+

Oil Filter - £7.30+

Air Filter - £19.25+

6 Spark Plugs @ 9.19 each - £55.14+

Pollen Filter - £15.48+

4.1 litres of 5w30 - £36.08+

Solvents - £3.95+

Screen wash - £1.20+

Sumpwasher - £1.05+

Engine Flush - £9.49+

Fuel Additive - £9.49+

Brake Fluid - £12.00+

Anti-Freeze - £22.50+

You also replace the timing belt with the tensioners at 60,000 miles as you are aware :-

2.5 hours Labour - £173.50+

Timing Belt kit with tensioners - £185.53+

Sub Total - £829.56

Inc VAT - £953.99

Garage 2

The approximate charge for a service on your Lexus IS200 SE will be £350.00 plus vat.

The brake fluid change will be £31.50 plus vat and the air conditioning recharge will be £85.00 plus vat.

The timing belt change, tensioner and idler will be approximately £287.85 plus vat

Total inc VAT - £865 approx

[atce4]

I was told by garage that it was 100k miles or 6 years so I'm going to get it done next year , should I just get it done now while it's in for other things ?

Lexus now say it should be done at 60k miles or 6 yrs, whichever comes first. Whether you have it done now depends on what its going in for. If its anything that involves removing the cambelt, eg water pump replacement, then I would say yes have it done now . If the car has reached 60k or 6 yrs same applies.

You can get an idea of cost from the above post.

[Parthiban]

I have to say £1000 to have all that done at an independent is a lot - my cambelt service at Lexus was £695, so £300 extra to not get a Lexus stamp doesn't sound right to me.

[atce4]

I have to say £1000 to have all that done at an independent is a lot - my cambelt service at Lexus was £695, so £300 extra to not get a Lexus stamp doesn't sound right to me.

Well that's now three indies all quoting within a couple of hundred pounds of each other, still waiting for a fourth to reply. Seems like the London effect to me although I see your from this area too. I did have a few extras done such as aircon regas, diff oil and brake fluid replacement. Must admit it does seem a lot of money though....

[gokhan]

damn i know owning a lexus was not going to be cheap but damn ouuch ok

well the car's only gone in for a vibration coming from the front end which is being investigated by albin motors so i may leave it depending on what they say but £800 + for a service and cambelt ?

Oh well only time will tell

[Parthiban]

Well that's now three indies all quoting within a couple of hundred pounds of each other, still waiting for a fourth to reply. Seems like the London effect to me although I see your from this area too. I did have a few extras done such as aircon regas, diff oil and brake fluid replacement. Must admit it does seem a lot of money though....

Mine wasn't an indie, it was Lexus Woodford. Sorry missed those extras, but still don't think they'd add £300 even at Lexus, I would expect an indie to be about 70% of the cost of Lexus, not more.

I thought JEM were quite reasonable with their pricing, but they must be going by Lexus Edgware Road (who I used to use) who's prices are quite ridiculous compared to Woodford who are the same distance from me.

Nevermind though, what's done is done I guess :)

[fil4362]

Oh yes i forgot your live in London area. So my prices are correct if you factor in the Postcode. Timing belt kit all 3 bits £58. £185 is mental price. My formans brother in law lives in London area. He drives up to Manchester for the weekend and gets his car serviced while hes up here including his fuel its still cheaper.

60,000 mile service on is200 is quoted at 3 hours acording to the latest auto data cd. at my garage this works out at £110.00.

Timing belt is additional task on this service labour is another 2 hours £73.50. timing belt kit is £58 althoug that with hugh discount as i work my supliers to outdo each other for my trade.

£85 for an aircon gas re charge is mental price. £40 i charge

£9.45 for engine flush and same again for fuel addative???? what they adding to the fuel and why they flushing an engine on a car thats serviced regulally. Theres another 20 quid saved.

£69.40 + vat labour hell if i charged that i would go bust inside a month. Does this garage you got a quote from do mot testing. i bet they dont because at that labour rate they would be loosing money maximum charge for mot test on class 4 is £57.20 (not checked in a while as i charge 47.50) The national average time for an mot test is 52 minutes so give or take 8 minutes the garage you got a quote form is loosing £12.20 an hour doing mot test.

The good garage scheme rates garages they have feedback scores for the garages i presume if people in your area are happy paying the prices then there wont be any bad feedback on costing issues in your area recorded on the site.

The A.A pay better wages for "servicemen" within the London ring road so maybe this is why the cost of living is twice as much.

[atce4]

Oh yes i forgot your live in London area. So my prices are correct if you factor in the Postcode. Timing belt kit all 3 bits £58. £185 is mental price. My formans brother in law lives in London area. He drives up to Manchester for the weekend and gets his car serviced while hes up here including his fuel its still cheaper.

60,000 mile service on is200 is quoted at 3 hours acording to the latest auto data cd. at my garage this works out at £110.00.

Timing belt is additional task on this service labour is another 2 hours £73.50. timing belt kit is £58 althoug that with hugh discount as i work my supliers to outdo each other for my trade.

£85 for an aircon gas re charge is mental price. £40 i charge

£9.45 for engine flush and same again for fuel addative???? what they adding to the fuel and why they flushing an engine on a car thats serviced regulally. Theres another 20 quid saved.

£69.40 + vat labour hell if i charged that i would go bust inside a month. Does this garage you got a quote from do mot testing. i bet they dont because at that labour rate they would be loosing money maximum charge for mot test on class 4 is £57.20 (not checked in a while as i charge 47.50) The national average time for an mot test is 52 minutes so give or take 8 minutes the garage you got a quote form is loosing £12.20 an hour doing mot test.

The good garage scheme rates garages they have feedback scores for the garages i presume if people in your area are happy paying the prices then there wont be any bad feedback on costing issues in your area recorded on the site.

The A.A pay better wages for "servicemen" within the London ring road so maybe this is why the cost of living is twice as much.

I agree that £185 is a lot for a timing kit, not sure what the Lexus price is. I know Japarts charge around £120 for the genuine Lexus cambelt set. I supplied both engine oil and spark plugs for my service and it still cost an arm and a leg, I wonder if they up the prices because of it being a Lexus, or is that just me being cynical

As for people in my area being happy to pay these prices.... what is the alternative? Cars need servicing and that's that, they've got us by the short and curlies I'm afraid. Haven't really got the time or inclination to travel halfway up the country even if it does work out cheaper. Also as it happens the garage that quoted me do MOTs so it must be worth their while surely?

[Parthiban]

This is really stupid comparing prices in Manchester and London - based on relative property prices, your rates sound like they're the same as they are in London, if anything you're more expensive.

[atce4]

This is really stupid comparing prices in Manchester and London - based on relative property prices, your rates sound like they're the same as they are in London, if anything you're more expensive.

Last two quotes

Harrow area £1104 and from a Lexus dealer not a million miles from Manchester, £852

I think you are right Parthiban, this discussion has probably run its course

[fil4362]

I can understand labour rates being more expensive but the parts ??? i Agree the cost of living is quite possibly higher in London but does that make the parts prices higher and therefore the price of the actual car when new higher? i still dont understand why your happy to pay all that money for a cambelt kit when i can get them for £58 and why they have the cheek to ask for £185

My foremans brother inlaw has his car serviced up here while he is visiting relatives so it does work out cheaper for him. He only comes visiting when his car is due a service though so seeing his family is the bonus not cheap car bills.

[gokhan]

i Agree with fil4362 i cannot understand the prices people are willing to pay , its plain crazy , hell i will go to Manchester or leicester by the sound of it to have this work done if london prices are way over what i am willing to pay

[JohnnyTsang]

well im getting my parts from dingbros for 120 quid and my labour charge is 75 quid so im happy enough