Gs Compared With E-class & 5 Series

knitware · August 6, 2009

So, I have had a couple of problems with my car. The rear window was squeaking but I managed to fix this myself with a squirt of silicon spray and the problem hasn't re-appeared. Then, to my horror the 'Check VSC' warning message appeared. The car, a Mk 3 GS300, now needs a new ECU, Oxygen sensors etc, happily all to be replaced under warranty, the bill for this is over £3000!

I was thinking to myself should I have bought a Mercedes or BMW, are these cars more reliable. After all one of the reasons I bought a Lexus, apart from the obvious, excellent drive, kudos, comfort etc was the renowned Japanese, and Toyota corp. reliability. Are Lexus' reliable? I went to the Telegraph site to seek out Honest John's thoughts. I have left out the blurb for engine specs and the like and concentrated on the 'What's bad' & 'What to watch out for'.

Here is what I found:

Lexus GS300 2005 -

"What's Bad

Some adverse reaction to the ride quality and road noise on motorways, especdially on 19" tyres. Otherreader issues include an inferior standard of interior trim quality (eg. loose internal door sills, loose boot floor cover and generally inferior plastics eg. compared to Audi). Two examples with dodgy sunroof seal. Also, the central locking is a poor design (terribly complex and inconvenient) and the sat nav is not as good as previous Toyota satnav. " -----The sat nav referred to here is the updated 2008 version, anyone here agree?

"What to Watch Out For

UK winter road salt attacks and oxidises the alloys quite badly."

-------That's it, salt on the wheels, that's all to watch out for. Maybe the GS is a good reliable car and I was unlucky. The ECU problem I have is known in early cars and the problem was addressed during manufactures warranty, my car must have slipped through due to low mileage. Anyway, the competition.

Mercedes E class -

What to Watch Out For

Lots of problems with 2003 - 2006 cars that seem to have ended with the summer 2006 facelift (facelift car headlights have louvres at the tops).

More feedback welcome.

Can suffer electrical problems, so make sure all electrics work before buying.

The transmission oil cooler of automatics is sited in the radiator matrix, so failure can lead to coolant entering the transmission and destroying it, leaving the owner with a bill of £4k - £6k. MB responded that this fault only occurred in cars manufactured between 2000 - 2003 and only when a Valeo radiator is fitted, but has occurred in later cars. By August 2008 there was an epidemic of failures with fresh reports every couple of days, dealers quoting £11k to fix and MB usually refusing to pay which effectively writes off a 2003 E Class as scrap. Also affects 2004 registered E Class.

Two other well known faults which might cause expensive damage are failure of the oil seals to the wiring looms from the top of the cam cover and to the autobox which is electrically operated.

Reports of leaking high pressure diesel pumps on 320CDIs. Fluid leaks onto cooling system pipes which then also need to be replaced. 'Straight 6' 3.2 litre CDI engine had a common problem with premature injector failure at as little as 60,000 miles. Replacement injectors are about £300-£400 each, plus fitting and calibrating to the ECU - an expensive repair if they all need replaced at about the same time. Another common problem with the earlier engine is apparent failure of the injector 'fire seals', which allows soot and carbon to basically 'weld' the injector into the cylinder head. If a faulty injector cannot be removed then the cylinder head would have to be replaced.

Tinkling sound which rises with revs on 320CDI is from ceramic matrix of catalytic converter.

Also starting problems with 320CDIs. Can suffer Battery drain down when left in airport carparks unless upgraded Battery pack specified.

Cars fitted with self-levelling suspension are prone to running down their batteries after a long ferry trip or after being left parked for a prolonged period in windy conditions because the system attempts to compensate for movement of the ship or being blown by the wind.

The transmission oil cooler of automatics is sited in the radiator matrix, so failure can lead to coolant entering the transmission and destroying it, leaving the owner with a bill of £4k +. Apparently this fault occurred in cars manufactured between 2000 - 2003 and only when a Valeo radiator is fitted. Two other well known faults which might cause expensive damage are failure of the oil seals to the wiring looms from the top of the cam cover and to the autobox which is electrically operated.

Another common fault of Mercedes diesels is failure of injector seals, allowing fuel/air mixture to be deposited as carbon on top of the engine. The problem can be identified by the smell of neat fuel (like paraffin) entering the passenger cabin, and a "chuffing" sound from the top of the affected cylinder as gas escapes on the compression stroke. Apparently it is so common it has been given the name "black death" within the Mercedes dealerships. Unless spotted early, and seals reground and replaced, the cost of fixing can be up to £500

One owner's problems with a 2004 E320 CDI estate: "Tailgate strut failure, parking sensor failure, central locking failure etc and larger failures, rear suspension completely replaced (under warranty) and torque converter replacement (50% contribution). The latest issue with the car is that I noticed an oil leak , I took it to my local dealer (Weston Super Mare) who diagnosed that the gearbox oil pipes had corroded and that these would need replacing. I was informed that the pipes would be approximately "£20 to £30 " each. I was therefore astounded to be presented with a bill for £1079.57 which included a new radiator. I asked why a new radiator had been fitted and secondly why was I not contacted to give approval. The reason I was given was that the pipes could not be removed from the radiator due to corrosion therefore the whole radiator was replaced."

Another reader's saga with a Mercedes Used and Approved November 2003 W211 E220CDI: "I excitedly? collected my Mercedes E-class 220CDi (Used Approved) from my dealership in Blackburn. In the space of 18 months ownership I have experienced - blown turbo (day 2); central gateway problems - no reversing lights - (dealership advice "Get your wife to watch you out"); 4 system shutdowns; collapsed front coil springs; 2 SB pump failures; erratic wet weather braking problems (undiagnosed); new front discs & pads and a blown turbo gasket! The vehicle has spent almost as much time at the dealership as it has on the road. On each occassion the dealership assure me "It's fine now". Several minor faults were present on delivery & had not been picked up in the supposedly rigorous "Approved/ Used" pre sales scrutiny."

Seem to have been a couple of cases of front suspension collapsing on 03s and 04s. That's spring failure, common on all makes and models of European car, not the spring 'perch' failure that afflicted the rust-prone W210 E Class.

What! How many problems, good grief............................

What's Bad

Rear seat not as wide as previous E class and centre rear seat not comfortable. High number of electrical and electronic faults reported across the range, spoiling what would otherwise be one of the World's best cars.

Strange "burping" noise reported by RHD E240 owner from Sensotronic brake unit, apparently due to the length of a hose in LHD to RHD conversion.

BMW 5 Series -

What's Bad

Looks are a bit of an acquired taste, but have grown on people.

Not brilliant 4 star NCAP crash safety rating and 1 star for pedestrian impact safety.

530i made comparatively poor showing against MB E320i and Jag S Type 3.0 in Autocar comparison test (issue 19-8-2003).

Early reports of I-Drive system malfunctions, which have lead to at least one successful rejection, but sorted by late 2003.

3G apple i-Phones don't work with BMW i-Drive.

From 2007 BMW 5 Series can be specified with an optional USB port so that you can control your MP3 player through the I Drive - snag is that some of the functionality ie. playlists etc cannot be accessed unless you buy BMWs 'special' USB lead at £39.95.

Reports of faults with puncture warning system. Many problems with low profile runflat tyres giving poor ride and handling and losing pressure. Best to avoid big wheels, early 18" runflat tyres (later Bridgestone runflats much improved) and 'Active' steering. (A full-size 225/50 x 17 wheel and tyre will not fit what looks like the spare wheel well.)

163bhp 520d is least powerful in the range and though adequate feels like a big car with a small engine.

How to get the car's Bluetooth hands free system to take your mobile phone directory (thanks to Stuart of www.emftechnology.co.uk: 1st ensure that your car and handset are paired with one another, and then send your address/contacts to the car by Bluetooth as Business Cards. Don't send the whole address book in one lump as this usually fails, but send contacts/address's from ABC&D first, once this is done, turn the car off and let the Bluetooth connection be lost between car and phone, then turn the car back on, let the Bluetooth connection be made between car and phone, then next addresses EFGH, etc, etc remember to turn to car on/off between each address "chunk" then go to the contacts address's on the I-Drive and hey presto and if by magic, your contacts will appear and you can call them from the I-Drive and also when receiving a call you will see who's calling you as long as they have been previously added to the car by the above. Apparently, this also works with Audis and Mercedes Benz.

Shape of screenwasher reservoir causes sediment to collect in the narrow

section towards the bottom, where there is little movement of fluid (waves

etc) to disperse it. The pump then becomes more and more blocked. Access is

restricted so you can't blast the sediment out with a hosepipe.

19" and 18" alloy wheels prone to cracking from shocks from poor road surfaces, speed humps and potholes.

What to Watch Out For

Check all systems before buying.

Check front screen for stress fractures. Very thin windscreen glass cracks easily when hit by stones.

Check runflat tyres, especially if Dunlops. Problem of cracking of sidewalls due to a fault with the tyres. Dunlop compensates according to the mileage the tyres have done. Tyre roar can become significant on runflats after around 15,000 miles.

General Warning about Automatic Transmissions: Many BMWs have "sealed for life" automatic transmissions. Regardless of whether you have a full BMW service history, the dealer will never change the auto fluid. Many of these boxes are failing around the 120-150k mark - often well outside of warranty and to a cost of £3.5k plus VAT. A good independent or automatic transmission specialist can and will change the fluid for you (and any good BMW independents will recommend this anyway). This is commonplace in the US and means the 'box should last the life of the car rather than being the cause of it being written off. General advice is ensure the fluid is flushed out every 60k or more preferably at each Inspection II.

One reader reported a problem of corrosion of suspension parts wearing the bushes and requiring £1,000 of rectification work (done under warranty). But as these models come out of warranty, this could become an issue and is unlikely to be covered by an aftermarket warranty.

One report of "squeaking" driver and front passenger side windows on a 2005 car. This can be eliminated simply by polishing the painted metal part of the door aperture.

One report of double turbo failure on 535d after 50k miles.

Report of flat spots and poor acceleration from new 174bhp '523i' engine (introduced Spring 2005), even when run on Shell V-Power. Further report of flat spots in power deliver of 2006 build 525i.

Check PAS fluid level regularly. Steering rack may leak fluid unnoticed out of end seal and into track rod end gaiter. Seems to be a Europe-wide shortage of parts to correct this.

On all diesels, 4 and 6 cylinder, intake manifold swirl actuators can break off and be ingested by the engine, wrecking it to the tune of as much as £12,000.

Injectors failing regularly on N53 'Efficient Dynamics' 6 cylinder engines. Thread about this on E60 Forum.

Readers mostly positive report of 90,000 miles with a September 2003 530d:

Active Steering has been great – but it occasionally decided not to work, and the indicators decided not to cancel at the same time. Always sorted by turning the car off and on a few times;

Dynamic Drive has been a waste of money. Maybe because I’m such a tame driver and don’t throw it around corners;

Had to keep an eye on hydraulic fluid and top it up now and again. Used about 1 litre over 90,000 miles so not a big deal. Had to top up coolant at about the same rate.

Passenger seat presence sensor occasionally sticks on.

At recent oil service BMW used new Shell Helix oil – and engine immediately felt rougher on acceleration and on tick over. I changed the oil back to Castrol Edge Turbo and all was well again. BMW gave me £200 refund – and said they’d only just switched to Helix on all cars…

Sorry a long post but I think the synopsis is, what's bad and what to look out for in a GS can be summed up in 3 sentences, Mercedes and BMW takes a lot more sentences and a lot more to worry about.

I think I will stick with Lexus. ;)