Ls600h 0-62 6.3secs, Ls460 0-62 5.7secs

[Rapidone]

The numbers on the LS600 sugest that the combined output of the electric and petrol motors are equivilent to a 6L petrol motor, but its still slower to 62 than the LS460.

I read Lexus say there is permenant 4 wheel drive on the LS600, because there is too much power for 2 wheels, but it accelarates slower than the RWD LS460, that makes no sense to me.

Anyone understand why?

[sparkystav]

Weight? surely the Battery and motor will be heavier?

[Parthiban]

There are a number of different reasons I guess, the hybrids have a CVT transmission, more weight and the LSh has the AWD system too.

LS600h - 2430kg - 439bhp - 0-60 6.3s

LS460 - 2055kg - 375bhp - 0-60 5.7s

GS460 - 1735kg - 342bhp - 0-60 5.8s

GS450h - 1930kg - 341bhp - 0-60 5.9s

Going on the stats for the GS though, it looks like the AWD system is the reason because even though the GS450h is heavier, the 0-60 is very similar as the torque of the electric motors must help shift the weight.

[Ninety-Eight]

400 KG difference in weight will certainly make a difference! as well as the CVT trans the overall gearing may differ and 4WD certainly does sap power. Thats why the Skyline drag racers use the RWD GT25 rather than the 4WD GT-R.

Is the LS600 not available without the hybrid stuff on it?

440 BHP is not too much for RWD. A chum of mine has a RWD race car with about 2200 BHP...

[is300_dino]

440 BHP is not too much for RWD. A chum of mine has a RWD race car with about 2200 BHP...

What is this beast you talk about a 2200BHP car, are you sure its not just a scud missile on wheels??? think we need some pictures and vids as proof

[Parthiban]

400 KG difference in weight will certainly make a difference! as well as the CVT trans the overall gearing may differ and 4WD certainly does sap power. Thats why the Skyline drag racers use the RWD GT25 rather than the 4WD GT-R.

Is the LS600 not available without the hybrid stuff on it?

440 BHP is not too much for RWD. A chum of mine has a RWD race car with about 2200 BHP...

Of course it makes a difference, but my point was that the GS450h is 200kg heavier with the same power as the 460 and has the same 0-60. The LS600h is 400kg heavier, but a lot more powerful so there shouldn't be such a large difference as the power to weight ratio is almost the same. It has to be the AWD system that's sapping all the power.

Don't need to look at race cars to say that 440bhp is not too much for RWD, only have to look at their competitors and the S63AMG which comfortably lives with over 500bhp and RWD! No you can't get the LS600h without the hybrid stuff, although I'm sure they may replace the LS460 with an LS500 at some point (with the 5 ltr out of the LS600h)

Although that does sound like a monster race car.........is that jet propelled or something?

[Ninety-Eight]

What is this beast you talk about a 2200BHP car, are you sure its not just a scud missile on wheels??? think we need some pictures and vids as proof

http://www.redvictor1racing.co.uk

Its road legal too.

Big block Chevy, twin turbo. Awesome monster of a car.

439 BHP 5 litre LS with no hybrid / CVT. Hmmm... sounds good to me!

I bet the CVT saps as much power as the 4WD and also aren't their generators for the batteries or something. It all sounds like a lag-fest to me.

[Parthiban]

Hang on, isn't that the car that was on Fifth Gear a while back? You know the guy that owns that? Awesome! Have you been for a ride in it?

Only reason I thought it might be the AWD system is that the GS450h performance is pretty good compared to the GS460, but you're probably right that it's a combination of everything.

[Ninety-Eight]

Hang on, isn't that the car that was on Fifth Gear a while back? You know the guy that owns that? Awesome! Have you been for a ride in it?

Only reason I thought it might be the AWD system is that the GS450h performance is pretty good compared to the GS460, but you're probably right that it's a combination of everything.

Its the same car its been on Top Gear, Fifth Gear, all sorts. Been in just about every magazine from Max Power to Street Machine as well over the years.

sadly I've not been in it since it got the big block. He started out with a tuned 4 cyl and it grew from there, Rover V8, small block V8, big block V8, twin turbo big block... I built a same model Victor with a tuned 5.7 Chevy and Andy helped out a lot with advice and a few "trade secrets" during the build up of that. And that was a crazy enough car.

[/back on topic]

I had assumed the LS600 was a 6 litre? I guess I need to learn up on my Lexus models!

[Parthiban]

Its the same car its been on Top Gear, Fifth Gear, all sorts. Been in just about every magazine from Max Power to Street Machine as well over the years.

sadly I've not been in it since it got the big block. He started out with a tuned 4 cyl and it grew from there, Rover V8, small block V8, big block V8, twin turbo big block... I built a same model Victor with a tuned 5.7 Chevy and Andy helped out a lot with advice and a few "trade secrets" during the build up of that. And that was a crazy enough car.

[/back on topic]

I had assumed the LS600 was a 6 litre? I guess I need to learn up on my Lexus models!

I can't imagine what a car with that much power must be like to ride in (let alone drive!)

Nope the hybrids all have numbers to signify what sort of engine would need to be in there to get the same performance (basically a bit of a con to make sure there is an LS to rival the S600 - although the LS600h doesn't have anything on the S600 except fuel economy )

The LS600h is a 5.0 V8 (same block as in the IS-F incidentally), the GS450h only has a 3.5 V6 under the bonnet.

[Hunt.trophy]

How come the LS600h doesn't compare the S600?

Just curious for you to expand your opinion on this

[Parthiban]

How come the LS600h doesn't compare the S600?

Just curious for you to expand your opinion on this

Sorry, yes that was a slightly vague opinion! I meant in terms of performance, obviously in other areas it probably does match up.

Even with the hybrid system though, it can't cope with the S600s biturbo V12 pushing 517bhp and 0-60 in 4.6s :winky:

[Hunt.trophy]

WOW, that is a big difference. I have driven a fully loaded 2007 S600 and a fully loaded 2008 LS600hL and did not notice such a huge difference. The Lexus did everything smoother and quieter and had better toys inside but the Merc had the edge when it came comfort in the drivers seat - unusually.

Anyway, was just wondering, as I had not seen paper specs and didn't notice major differences between the two when I drove them.

Thanks for the info.

[Parthiban]

Interesting that it didn't feel that different, I guess under real world conditions the torque of the electric motors will really get it off the line.......I'd imagine on the motorway though the merc must feel a lot quicker.

Think the LS would always be the sensible choice though, although personally I'd probably go for the LS460 as I'm not sure I fully understand whether the extra cost for the 600h is justified

[Hunt.trophy]

I think the LS600hL is the one to get if you had the cash. The inside is nicer than many 5* hotels I've been too.

The LS460 is nice, my Dad has one, but the LS600hL is in another league all together.

[Parthiban]

Yeah I was playing in the back of one at my dealer and it is very nice, but isn't there an LS460L with all the same stuff in the back?

[braindead]

I bet the CVT saps as much power as the 4WD and also aren't their generators for the batteries or something. It all sounds like a lag-fest to me.

I think you'll find the CVT doesn't. It's a similar design to the "power splitter" on the Prius. You effectively have a sun/moon/planet arrangement with the electric motor on one shaft, then engine on another and the wheels on another. Very efficient - blends any combination of engine and motor power.

There's a rather heavy explanation of the Prius power splitter/CVT here. The Lexus version can't be much different in concept.

Malc