Does Your Is200 Have A Rattle, Knocking Suspension?

[iwonder]

4 hours ago, catnap said:

Interesting. How do you know which places will have these ATL things? Is it a mechanical device that'll shake the car like it was being driven? Because that could be very useful if so.

Not sure how you wouldn't know but if you ask they will know what you mean. It will replicate steering freeplay check, side to side. It also pushes the front axle side to side, good for checking balljoints and bushes. It doesn't replicate the movement when going of a bump but more often that not you will see what's worn. 

[catnap]

1 hour ago, iwonder said:

Not sure how you wouldn't know but if you ask they will know what you mean. It will replicate steering freeplay check, side to side. It also pushes the front axle side to side, good for checking balljoints and bushes. It doesn't replicate the movement when going of a bump but more often that not you will see what's worn. 

That sounds ideal- I'm sure that rig can reproduce the noise. 

[rincewind]

Any suggestions as to where such a rig could be found?  I'm in Essex, catnap is in Sussex.

[iwonder]

I would guess larger companies would have it as it's expensive to have them fitted, newer MOT place more likely to have it. Some dealers do but if you asked them they would probably check suspension the normal way. 

That's not the only way to check suspension though so I wouldn't go out of my way to find one of these places. It's just easier to see faults

[catnap]

No change to my problem. I've bought a decent (Neilsen Ct3611, significantly less chance of killing me) set of spring compressors and I'll be taking my spare/old shocks apart to see what condition the shock and top mount are in. If I find any problems that could cause the noise I'll report back.

[rincewind]

catnap, look forward to the results of your investigations.  I'd love to get rid of the knock on mine

[catnap]

Will do, though it's on hold at the moment, two reasons.

1. Both places on eBay plus another tools company are out of stock and all orders got cancelled. I don't want to use the cheap "claw" type compressors as they break people's jaws all the time.

2. I'm getting a popping/clunking noise today and yesterday, which last time was the pads not being greased enough/correctly. I just had the wheel bearing changed and I wonder if they cleaned things up while they were in there.

However, the new noise does sound a lot like my clunk. Same pitch, area of the noise, metal-on-metal stuff. So I'm back to looking at the caliper/bracket/slides again. I wonder if this has been my issue all along?

[rich1068]

I've got used to mine. I don't really notice it now. Really shouldn't be replying to this thread...

[catnap]

1 hour ago, rich1068 said:

I've got used to mine. I don't really notice it now. Really shouldn't be replying to this thread...

Once you get rid of it, even for a day, it's glorious.

[rincewind]

4 hours ago, catnap said:

Once you get rid of it, even for a day, it's glorious.

Oh yes! I so agree.  It almost makes me want to jack up the car to relax the suspension on a weekly basis just for it to go away for a short while.

[catnap]

14 hours ago, rincewind said:

Oh yes! I so agree.  It almost makes me want to jack up the car to relax the suspension on a weekly basis just for it to go away for a short while.

Okay, so what changes when the suspension is relaxed?

Upper control arm bushes
Lower control arm bushes (no.2 for me is unlikely as I have poly bushes here and it didn't change anything. No.1- maybe?)
Shock
Spring
Top mount

I mean that's pretty much it, isn't it? So it should be one of those things, unless I'm missing something.
I'm tempted to pull the upper arms and check the ball joint (checked with wheel on ground using a pole under the tyre, no movement), and then look to replace those two bushes with poly (StrongFlex). After that I don't see how it could be anything but shocks/top mounts. Someone with more knowledge should probably chime in though as I'm bound to have missed something!

[rincewind]

I think your list is spot on.  I’ve changed;

Shocks (on third set)

top mount

lower ball joint

i also removed LCA and inspected the large bush on it, looked fine.  I’ve also had garages pull it all about, including the guy at WIM, they couldn’t find anything wrong.

After 3 sets of different makes of shocks on it I can’t see that they are the problem(unless they all share the same design flaw - but why then is the clunking noise always on the right(drivers) side? I currently suspect the upper ball joint.

[catnap]

I think there's a clue in the suspension relaxing and the noise coming back gradually. I don't know how a balljoint could do this. When I swapped my shock/coil spring assemblies to 2nd-hand units the noise did go away for a few days then very gradually came back. I'm at a loss to explain how this happens. I don't think a bound-up bushing would take that long to start moving and make noise.

There's a mechanic in my town I've used a few times- he's very good but broke his wrist recently so he's been out of action. I'll find out when he's back working and see if he can fit me in sometime.

Frustrating!

[rincewind]

Yes, the gradual coming back thing is perplexing.  I really hope we can get to the bottom of this.

[catnap]

Does yours get worse with more people in the car? That's something I've noticed.

[rincewind]

On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 2:30 PM, catnap said:

Does yours get worse with more people in the car? That's something I've noticed.

I'm reviving this thread to see if anyone had any progress with the knocking noise.  catnap - I've not noticed any increase in the knocking noise with the car occupied with people.  It may be me, but it does seem quieter in the rain when the underside is wet.

[rich1068]

I've got a little update. Hopefully.

At the moment mine's in at Lexus for a service and I mentioned the knock from the nsf again in a sort of "And I know you don't believe me but..." kind of way. Got an update on progress this morning and almost in passing the service manager told me they're replacing the top mount on that side.

So we'll see...

[rincewind]

Been there done that, didn’t make any difference.  

[Ben01]

My 2 pennies from nowhere (and sorry if it was discussed before, I did not read whole topic): did anybody try, in the middle of IS drum concerto, to simple disconnect (unscrew) shock absorber from top mount without lifting the car (and push "bolt" down, if it's possible) and drive a bit in same conditions (not the public road of course, as car could be jumpy)? From my experience with noisy ghosts in old suspensions (but not IS) this test could discriminate possible reasons for knocking.

[rich1068]

2 hours ago, rincewind said:

Been there done that, didn’t make any difference.  

I know  But I saw a straw and clutched at it...

I did actually ask him if he knew for certain it was that but he sort of swerved the question and said something about it being a known problem. We'll see. I'm not too bothered anyway. I have got used to it to the point that I hardly notice anymore. And all the work is being carried out under warranty.

[catnap]

11 hours ago, Ben01 said:

My 2 pennies from nowhere (and sorry if it was discussed before, I did not read whole topic): did anybody try, in the middle of IS drum concerto, to simple disconnect (unscrew) shock absorber from top mount without lifting the car (and push "bolt" down, if it's possible) and drive a bit in same conditions (not the public road of course, as car could be jumpy)? From my experience with noisy ghosts in old suspensions (but not IS) this test could discriminate possible reasons for knocking.

I don't think that will work, the weight of the car pushing on the shock will simply push it back up instantly when you lower the car down. There's a tremendous amount of force on these components- anything you do like this would be undone. Though perhaps I'm mis-understanding?

[catnap]

10 hours ago, rich1068 said:

I know  But I saw a straw and clutched at it...

I did actually ask him if he knew for certain it was that but he sort of swerved the question and said something about it being a known problem. We'll see. I'm not too bothered anyway. I have got used to it to the point that I hardly notice anymore. And all the work is being carried out under warranty.

How do you still have warranty? 😲

[Ben01]

1 hour ago, catnap said:

I don't think that will work, the weight of the car pushing on the shock will simply push it back up instantly when you lower the car down. There's a tremendous amount of force on these components- anything you do like this would be undone. Though perhaps I'm mis-understanding?

Probably rather I have no idea about IS suspension's details. If IS stays normal on the ground, could you simple unscrew top "stick" of absorber from inner part of top-mount? (not top-mount form the body!). Is there access? (maybe there is some cover over top-mount, but lets presume it was removed before). Is it "safe", as - absorber is not self-loaded, nothing drop or jump, and absorber could be "extended" back into top-mount more-less easily, and screw back into?

Idea is if you "loose" absorber and could a bit test drive, you could eliminate absorber itself, and whole top mount and lower mount of absorber. If there is still same knockin, you have a half of the suspected elements to think about. Like [censored] spring end rubbing against [censored] top plate, it was the case I figured once in this kind of test (somebody advised me). BTW maybe this is your case guys, everybodys mine included presumption was "spring is heavy loaded, could not knock or rattle".

[rich1068]

24 minutes ago, catnap said:

How do you still have warranty? 😲

Bought it in August last year from Lexus Sheffield. They did a small service on it before letting me have it and I arranged for this big service and MOT to be carried out before the warranty runs out in a couple of weeks. As we know, these cars certainly can't be described as unreliable but they are showing their age. I've had the O2 sensor, water pump and top mount all done under warranty. And while they're doing the water pump they're changing the timing belt two years early because Lexus are already paying the labour. It'll cost me about 30 quid in parts.

[rincewind]

I’ve had my IS since a year old and 10k miles.   It’s now done 140k and has proved unbelievably reliable.  It’s had the front n/s suspension ‘knock’ since the day I bought it back in late 2005, Lexus tried to fix it but failed- they changed the shocks twice and had a good old session pulling it all about but it is still there to this day.  I’ve since changed the shocks again, new lower ball joint, new top mount and three or four garages pulling it about but finding nothing amiss (including WIM).  I live with the knock and don’t really notice it any more.  Well, most of the time.