Still Undecided On Lexus Replacement

[Haf]

I am due to replace my company car (and should have ordered something in nov) but keep finding more choice. So having done a couple of test drives i am surprised at what i will miss from me IS220DMM - and what i won't.

Getting another lexus is a non-starter due to the widely talked about gearbox/mpg issues of the 220D.

So I was pretty much set on a BMW (320D or 520D) and having driven both I found the 3series to be too ugly for my liking (despite the excellent feel and mpg) and also found that the cost of extras to get to IS220D type spec was ridiculous.

I then got a 520D MSport Auto and that was a lovely car (although a bit big for my needs). The auto box was great and gave me better mpg than my 220D. I also found that the bmw offer of £1000 for leather/sat-nav/bluetooth meant i could get it close to the lexus for spec without spending a fortune on the options.

I thought I would try out an Audi A4 for completeness (143D) and that was also a very nice drive and even better mpg. The only downside was the options reqd to get to lexus levels were high

Now the joker in the pack has become the Audi A5 as I was told at the dealers that a 2.0D is due in march with very low emissions and 50+mpg combined. On top of that they are doing a free upgrade to 'sport' model inc Bluetooth etc which means it really only needs the sat-nav to be a decent spec. It was also roomy enough for multiple golfers :-)

I know that I am not comparing like with like but as I am alone 95% of the time and with other-half 4% of the time, its just 1% of the time i need to use the back seats. So in reality i can go with any of the above cars. Despite being on the verge of ordering the 5series I am now leaning towards A5 pending a test-drive.

Costwise the 3series is cheapest followod by A4, A5 and then 5series - but there isn't much in it to be honest (£1000 per year between cheapest and most expensive) assuming i get all with leather/sat-nav/heated/metalic/bluetooth

Coming back to the matter in hand, I wasn't sure what IS features I would miss the most but having done some test drives I found the 'keyless' feature , reversing camera and touch sat-nav to be the main ones. The first 2 are expensive extras on audi and bmw and i hadn't planned on getting but not so sure now. Hunting around my pockets for keys can be annoying and trying to reverse park the 520d was just ridiculous - even though it has PDC. The Audi sat-nav is nice but the bmw one is fiddly with the idrive - i'm sure i can get used to either. Other lexus features i don't use, such as the top spec sound system (radio only for me), dvd player, electric seats, voice control, etc so not really fussed

Anyway I am under great pressure to order a car as my lease is up so i really have to make a decision in next couple of weeks. If i can get the A5 on test then that will be ideal but as its not available till march, i may have to test the 2.7D instead plus get the A4 with the same engine in to get some sort of comparison..

comments welcome

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

......Coming back to the matter in hand, I wasn't sure what IS features I would miss the most but having done some test drives I found the 'keyless' feature , reversing camera and touch sat-nav to be the main ones. The first 2 are expensive extras on audi and bmw and i hadn't planned on getting but not so sure now. Hunting around my pockets for keys can be annoying and trying to reverse park the 520d was just ridiculous - even though it has PDC. The Audi sat-nav is nice but the bmw one is fiddly with the idrive - i'm sure i can get used to either. Other lexus features i don't use, such as the top spec sound system (radio only for me), dvd player, electric seats, voice control, etc so not really fussed

Anyway I am under great pressure to order a car as my lease is up so i really have to make a decision in next couple of weeks. If i can get the A5 on test then that will be ideal but as its not available till march, i may have to test the 2.7D instead plus get the A4 with the same engine in to get some sort of comparison..

comments welcome

Nice problem to have... ;-)

TBH, the only things I miss are as follows:

Reversing camera

Sound system (Even the standard sound system in an Audi is very good)

Both of which could be fixed easily and for approx £1500 on an Audi (on top of a an A4/5 with DVD Satnav).

You won't miss the heated/vented seats (even in this weather as by the time they start to warm up your comfortable anyway), Elect seats without memory is a waste of time and just adds weight, keyless is OK but can be more problematic if someone nearby decides to get a new WIFI router etc and is totally non-essential after a while. You won't miss the touch screen on the Audi (or the new BMW media) - the systems are very intuitive, even more so than the Lexus touch screen...though slightly slower to navigate, but if you have Voice commands (especially in a BMW) they are much better than Lexus...and if you do have the Connected Drive and Google maps, it is a breeze to use.

I have driven an A5 and can't recommend it enough if you like coupe's, but you should also consider a 3 Coupe - they are even better than the already excellent A5 to drive!! A 320i petrol Coupe Sport will beat the 220d in terms of MPG alone, and then when you add the fact that it's 12p a litre less to buy, it makes it really competitive...

Good luck Haf

PS - BMW do offer the Rear view camera as a dealer fit option. It won't be cheap, but I too thought it was daunting reversing such a big car at first. Now though, I have no real problem...the PDC is just about good enough...and the rear screen isn't as "letter boxy" as the IS's. But nothing beats a camera. I noticed that even Honda are making them available/standard on Satnav'd Accords

[Robertb]

The current BMW range, with the possible exception of the 3 series coupe is unappealing looking, and the interiors feel to me a bit cheap. But they are the best drives in class. That said, where they excel is on the twisty roads, so you need to decide how much time to spend on the roads vs the m-way. The run-flat tyres can give a very ropey ride.

Keyless go is good, and I'd certainly miss it. Parking sensors I'd miss, and heated seats on those chilly mornings, and Bluetooth is essential if you need to be contactable on the move. I think as long as I had sensors, I'd not miss the camera.

I think an A5 2.0d would be great; good looking, and beautifully built. Or how about a TT diesel, if you really don't need to put folk in the back- you'll still get your golf bats in.

Have you considered a C class Merc? Or how about a Passat CC... better value than any of the big brands, good looking and well specced.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I now what you mean about BMW interiors, but they only feel cheap 'cos there is a lack of knobs and buttons. They are actually almost as good as Audi from a materials used perspective and robust enough...no hard shiny/metallic looking plastic anywhere, but you need to have wood trim to get the best look out of them...

[Haf]

some good points guys....

Although I don't have passengers 99% of the time, there will still be the odd occasion when i need 3/4 people and 3 sets of golf clubs so I was originally looking at the coupes (TT is too small) and the 3series coupe didn't seem spacious enough either. The A5 just caught my eye with the big boot and reasonable back seats. Plus there seem to be loads of 3series in the company car park..

I did look at C class but the costs don't add up (higher emissions and higher lease rates)

Heated seats are a 'must have' for me and i was amazed at how quick the bmw heated up compared to the lexus

I'm sure i can get used to no keyless or reversing camera after a while but they are nice features

I thought the 5series interior was quite nice (Msport with leathers etc) though the business satnav was a bit poor visually. msport seems to look better on 5series than 3series for some reason

Hopefully the A5 test drive will help me make my mindup as I am spending way to much time thinking about cars instead of working :-)

[aido]

Those A5's certainly look the business!

Will be interesting to hear how you get on with that as the ones that I've seen all look fantastic!

[Parthiban]

Have to agree, on looks alone the A5 with sport pack and the right alloys looks fantastic :)

[DJ Wozza]

One of my neighbours has an A5, and that would be my choice as it looks fantastic & drives very well,

and is a little more exclusive than the 3 Series.

[Gord]

One of my neighbours has an A5, and that would be my choice as it looks fantastic & drives very well,

and is a little more exclusive than the 3 Series.

Me to :D

Every Tom, ***** and Anees has a 3 Series :D

[dgman]

haf,you should visit e90 posts.com before you commit to bmw,there are threads of alloy wheels cracking which bmw won't replace under warranty,also 320i engines with engine management problems,320d owners with mpg as low as 25,wheel hubs rusting up like bags of nails which again bmw will not replace under warranty.you would be a brave man too buy such poor quality for premium price imho.

[aido]

also 320i engines with engine management problems,320d owners with mpg as low as 25,wheel hubs rusting up like bags of nails which again bmw will not replace under warranty.you would be a brave man too buy such poor quality for premium price imho.

But that also sounds exactly like LOC

[Parthiban]

But that also sounds exactly like LOC

I have to say the stuff I've heard about alloys cracking is quite alarming though........seeing as they weren't replacing them when they were corroding, can't see why they'd replace cracked ones as that clearly has to be caused by an external factor like a pothole or something.........

[Haf]

To be honest the only bmw i would consider is 520D Msport auto as I have had it for a 4 day test drive and its smooth/quiet/fast/comfortable/economical/good-looking (leather/satnav/heated) and the only fault was that the AC system is a bit basic and an upgrade is needed for a decent one. The runflat tyres were fine and i didn't really notice any problems at all.

The A5 may well turn out to be even better hence looking forward to the test

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

But that also sounds exactly like LOC

I have to say the stuff I've heard about alloys cracking is quite alarming though........seeing as they weren't replacing them when they were corroding, can't see why they'd replace cracked ones as that clearly has to be caused by an external factor like a pothole or something.........

It's not just BMW alloys suffering - it's a known problem for many marques who run ultra low prof's.

Cracking alloys are I think down to 3 things:

Over inflated runflats

Taking the kerb when parking up

Potholes

The first 2 could imply "misuse" - Remember - run flats have a very hard sidewall and over inflating them makes it worse...

The engine management stuff only appears to have affected certain cars - 320i petrols - we have one in the family without an issue (AND YES IT DOES GIVE 50+ MPG ON A RUN).

Ultimately, Haf won't be worried by this - 'cos he ain't buying it - the lease company is!! Let him make his choice accordingly...lets just stick to answering his question...

[dgman]

But that also sounds exactly like LOC

I have to say the stuff I've heard about alloys cracking is quite alarming though........seeing as they weren't replacing them when they were corroding, can't see why they'd replace cracked ones as that clearly has to be caused by an external factor like a pothole or something.........

It's not just BMW alloys suffering - it's a known problem for many marques who run ultra low prof's.

Cracking alloys are I think down to 3 things:

Over inflated runflats

Taking the kerb when parking up

Potholes

The first 2 could imply "misuse" - Remember - run flats have a very hard sidewall and over inflating them makes it worse...

The engine management stuff only appears to have affected certain cars - 320i petrols - we have one in the family without an issue (AND YES IT DOES GIVE 50+ MPG ON A RUN).

Ultimately, Haf won't be worried by this - 'cos he ain't buying it - the lease company is!! Let him make his choice accordingly...lets just stick to answering his question...

my intention is to share my learnings to give the man fair warning of what he could potentially be buying.the issue with cracked alloys on bmw cars is ongoing and as yet is unresolved.i for one would not want to risk my familys safety.one could mistake yourself for a bmw spokesperson with your post.

[Parthiban]

I haven't really heard much about other brands suffering with alloys cracking the way BMW ones do, and the worst part about that is that you often won't know it's cracked unless it fails which could be catastrophic............

Let us know how you get on with the A5 test, I'm also interested to know how it compares to the others you're thinking of. Are they all 4wd or are some of them front wheel drive?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

But that also sounds exactly like LOC

I have to say the stuff I've heard about alloys cracking is quite alarming though........seeing as they weren't replacing them when they were corroding, can't see why they'd replace cracked ones as that clearly has to be caused by an external factor like a pothole or something.........

It's not just BMW alloys suffering - it's a known problem for many marques who run ultra low prof's.

Cracking alloys are I think down to 3 things:

Over inflated runflats

Taking the kerb when parking up

Potholes

The first 2 could imply "misuse" - Remember - run flats have a very hard sidewall and over inflating them makes it worse...

The engine management stuff only appears to have affected certain cars - 320i petrols - we have one in the family without an issue (AND YES IT DOES GIVE 50+ MPG ON A RUN).

Ultimately, Haf won't be worried by this - 'cos he ain't buying it - the lease company is!! Let him make his choice accordingly...lets just stick to answering his question...

my intention is to share my learnings to give the man fair warning of what he could potentially be buying.the issue with cracked alloys on bmw cars is ongoing and as yet is unresolved.i for one would not want to risk my familys safety.one could mistake yourself for a bmw spokesperson with your post.

Whatever - I thought I'd just state a fact...the wheel thing is on going - check out the Evo forums and Astra club's - similar issues...and a car mag (Auto something or other) had an article a few years ago about another make - can't remember which...BMW are worse currently due to RFT's and in the states they sue everyone for anything...hence the court action...

A quick question though...did you stop driving your Lexus when you found out about the steering recall???? Could have been dangerous that one....

[Anees]

One of my neighbours has an A5, and that would be my choice as it looks fantastic & drives very well,

and is a little more exclusive than the 3 Series.

Me to :D

Every Tom, ***** and Anees has a 3 Series :D

Better then being a c*ck in an Audi :P

Personally I'd look into the 3 series coupe, in black with red leather or in white with carbon fibre bits... :winky: :winky:

[dgman]

But that also sounds exactly like LOC

I have to say the stuff I've heard about alloys cracking is quite alarming though........seeing as they weren't replacing them when they were corroding, can't see why they'd replace cracked ones as that clearly has to be caused by an external factor like a pothole or something.........

It's not just BMW alloys suffering - it's a known problem for many marques who run ultra low prof's.

Cracking alloys are I think down to 3 things:

Over inflated runflats

Taking the kerb when parking up

Potholes

The first 2 could imply "misuse" - Remember - run flats have a very hard sidewall and over inflating them makes it worse...

The engine management stuff only appears to have affected certain cars - 320i petrols - we have one in the family without an issue (AND YES IT DOES GIVE 50+ MPG ON A RUN).

Ultimately, Haf won't be worried by this - 'cos he ain't buying it - the lease company is!! Let him make his choice accordingly...lets just stick to answering his question...

my intention is to share my learnings to give the man fair warning of what he could potentially be buying.the issue with cracked alloys on bmw cars is ongoing and as yet is unresolved.i for one would not want to risk my familys safety.one could mistake yourself for a bmw spokesperson with your post.

Whatever - I thought I'd just state a fact...the wheel thing is on going - check out the Evo forums and Astra club's - similar issues...and a car mag (Auto something or other) had an article a few years ago about another make - can't remember which...BMW are worse currently due to RFT's and in the states they sue everyone for anything...hence the court action...

A quick question though...did you stop driving your Lexus when you found out about the steering recall???? Could have been dangerous that one....

my car was with the dealer having it's service wnen the dealer told me of the recall,i then passed on the information to fellow posters on the forum.i am not aware of any members of the loc that have reported structural cracks in alloys.it is strange that you would take a stance in favour of corporate bmw instead of beleiving your fellow bmw posters when some have had their wheels tested by mira.perhaps you have also missed the recent post's that i have quoted from bmw forums ,where members have expressed their disappointment with the fuel economy of the 320d although i doubt that.for sometime now you have taken every opportunity too discredit the 220d particularly in respect of economy yet the threads that i quote show that there are plenty of bmw owners that have poor fuel economy experiences.where as you would have us beleive that all bmw cars are the holy grail economy and judging by your piers they are NOT.

[stevet]

Keep with Lexus and get a ISF instead !

At under 40k for a brand new one they are such a bargain

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/c...cleRegLetter=08

[Teeonethousand]

Haf - what a great problem to have and you sound just like me (and probably the rest of us) when forced into a sweet shop and told to choose just one :=)

For my money the 520d is the captain sensible choice - they have a high level of everything on the tick list...BUT...to me anyway - just not very exciting - especially inside - and is the sort of car you buy with your logical hat on.

The A5 has nearly everything on the tick list but has a more more 'mmmmm nice ' to it (with the right colour and wheels) and to compromise over the practicality of the B5 you would need your emotional hat on. I would choose the A5 every time.

Either way you can not make a wrong decision - it is just that one would be more right than the other.

Good luck

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Another thread that has been desimated

Anyway - back on topic - the new A5 Cab looks fantastic - Haf - how about one of them???

[Haf]

Well the good news for me is that most people on this forum (especially as its a lexus forum) seem to be happy with the 520d and the A5 with a few more votes for A5 in terms of looks and exclusivity.

The maths tells me that i can afford either (with leather/sat-nav/bluetooth/metalic) but thats mainly due to the low emissions of these 2 cars so I have pretty much stopped looking at alternatives - though i haven't completley excluded the A4.

Can't wait to test the A5 and if it feels right then that will be my first choice...

Thanks for all the input and I'll feedback once i have more news..

[Gunther]

Well the good news for me is that most people on this forum (especially as its a lexus forum) seem to be happy with the 520d and the A5 with a few more votes for A5 in terms of looks and exclusivity.

The maths tells me that i can afford either (with leather/sat-nav/bluetooth/metalic) but thats mainly due to the low emissions of these 2 cars so I have pretty much stopped looking at alternatives - though i haven't completley excluded the A4.

Can't wait to test the A5 and if it feels right then that will be my first choice...

Thanks for all the input and I'll feedback once i have more news..

Having driven both cars (530i manual and A4), I get the feeling you'll like the sharpness of the Audi A5, and it looks superb, the interior is well made and it's more modern than the 5er - which is in it's final year now. The 5 is big, and if you are constantly having to park in small spaces you'll find it overhangs a bit too much in the spaces :o

Good luck

[Wicky]

Well the good news for me is that most people on this forum (especially as its a lexus forum) seem to be happy with the 520d and the A5 with a few more votes for A5 in terms of looks and exclusivity.

The maths tells me that i can afford either (with leather/sat-nav/bluetooth/metalic) but thats mainly due to the low emissions of these 2 cars so I have pretty much stopped looking at alternatives - though i haven't completley excluded the A4.

Can't wait to test the A5 and if it feels right then that will be my first choice...

Thanks for all the input and I'll feedback once i have more news..

Switching from my 250 Sport to an A5 2.0 TFSI S Line - March delivery - I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the test drive - however, like me, you will have to get used to some features which you may presently take for granted in the IS - speccing an A5 to the same standard will be very expensive