Is220d Or 250?

[swager]

Hi all, be easy on me please, first time post and all that :D

Basically I currently own a Jaguar 2.2 Turbo Diesel and am looking to possibly change to a Lexus.

My father owns a 01 GS300 which he loves and he always speaks so highly of Lexus customer services (something which I can not say about Jaguar.) His experiences have basically made up my mind for me.

I had decided to start looking for a 220d, however was shocked to read the various problems owners seem to be having.

Mechanical breakdowns etc seems very un-Lexus like to me and this has got me thinking whether I should change or not.

I want to buy a Lexus for genuine reliability, not to take it to the dealers every 2 months.

I am fed up of all the niggly problems I have had with my current car over the past year, but touchwood it has not let me down badly, unlike some of the reports regarding the IS220D.

I drive 15,000 miles (motorway) or so every year, hence my choice to buy a diesel last year. However given the price at the pumps now, it would seem there would be little difference between buying a 220d and a 250 and from the looks of it, I would have a lot less problems with the petrol unit.

I'm just looking for some advice really on which way to go.

Is the IS200d really that bad? Is the 6th gear really useless?

What consumption can I expect from the 250? How many miles do people get from a tank?

Cheers

Nick

Hi nick

It’s a no brainer ,as with all cars its down to the individual and his or hers dislikes in a car and budget . Had a few test drives in the 220d and 220d sport when looking at a company car and after driving our (the wife’s IS250 auto sel for a year it was really chalk and cheese. The auto box is the dogs bol—cks and the mpg is not that bad ,the wife gets between 25-26 mpg on the collage run – stop start in rush hour and good A roads and motorway runs will average between 30 – 38mpg over with a best of 41mpg but it all depends on how big your right foot is .I also did not like the manual gear change position and also the clutch . Lexus customer care can be very good and in some case just as bad as the rest of them but as a overall package lexus are good . (hmmm wonder if Jambo is still reading )

good job I didnt go for the Jag as the company car - went for the BMW 320d auto sport 42-45 mpg anywhere and I do have a big right foot

go or the IS250 auto with the MM

cheers

swager

[digg2]

the audi,vw and even the bmw forums have many complaint's about mpg not reaching manufacturers official figures.in fact the audi /vw owners complain about their fuel computers giving wrong mpg by as much as 15%.

iswanabee,the problems with the 5th injector are specific to the 220 and since the recall,i know of no breakdown's posted here.

the problems with rattles and creaks are 220 and 250.

the engine rebuild's are entirely 250 only.

i think you should expect 28 from a 250 and 38 from a 220.if so then the 250 will cost you about £380 more per year in fuel alone,plus the extra insurance and the extra ved,all in about £800-£1000 extra per year.all said ,you need to test drive both and decide which one fits your needs best.

don't forget to zero the avg on your test drives. :)

well i can tell you that mine broke down 5 days after having the latest injector mod.

that was the third time the car had left me stranded at the roadside. all times with the same issue.

lexus is220d - never again.

[digg2]

the biggest complaint with the is220d has always been reliability and economy.

mine has left me stranded 3 times at the roadside in limp home mode, even after all the mods.

i know these forums have seen plenty of people tempted to the lexus brand with the IS looks but have then left becuase of these two issues.

and everytime there is a debate about fuel dggman seems to pop up quoting the mythical 40mpg. where as others, me included get around 29mpg consistently. mine is an is220d sport, i get 29mpg with the majority of my driving being motorway miles.

and then that usually leads to a slanging match about driving styles etc to account for the differences in mpg.

here is what you have to do. get an is220d for a test drive and reset the mpg then take ot for a good 24hr test drive.

this will give you the best indication of what mpg figures you can get. you may have found the unicorn crap powered lexus that achieves that mythical 40mpg.

if you want economy the is220d isnt the way to go. if you want the looks then go for it, it is a pretty car. but its not economical. and my experience is rattles, creeks, and roadside breakdowns.

more than in all the other cars i have ever owned (and one of thos was a rover :-)

[digg2]

and post back what mpg you got on that test drive, would be interesting to know.

get the dealer to reset the mpg just before you drive of the forecourt

[glennhughes]

My pennies worth lol. I have had both of these cars while mine has been in for service, the diesel is dire having had a jaguar x 2.0d previously it does not compare to that for mpg or real world performance, the gearbox is awfuly notchy and a real pain in stop start traffic it bogs down when going from 1st to 2nd.The dealership i use recommend the 250 over the 220 because they feel it is a much better car, i would have to agree allthough my sportcross is far superior lol.

[fjcfarrar]

Over 10 - 20 years, Electronics/Technology revolutionised car diesels - equally applying to petrol engines which had a functional head-start, making improvements which more than kept pace. The reality remains: Diesel is the poor-man's petrol and transforms prestige cars into wannabe prestige cars which are comparatively rough, slow and smelly; but cheaper to run.

In the IS range, the 4-cylinder IS 220D has it fans, some believing despite every bit of data that higher torque over a tiny rev range makes it swifter than the larger 6-cylinder IS250. It is widely acknowledged however, the IS250 + the superb auto box with paddle manual is supreme in smoothness and performance - but with higher fuel costs. Add MM and the bells and whistles you want and it won't disappoint. After it, the 220D seems a great car turned cheap, nasty and pretentious.

[audi al]

When I test drove an IS my first choice was diesel that was until I actually drove it.Stepping straight out of an Audi A4 diesel into the 220d instantly showed that it wasn't for me, not a patch on the Audi and very strange to drive.

The salesman afraid I was about to walk suggested I try the 250 which I did.Even though I was determined I would stick with diesel forever, the 250 was a no-brainer.It was excellent, smooth,silent and reasonably quick.

I have owned it now for 18months and 18k miles, average 31mpg doing my regular journeys to work etc.The most I have seen is 36mpg on a long trip abroad, not the best but 90mph isn't economical in many cars is it.

I have had no problems whatsoever and its just going in for its 20k service.

The dealer has been very good in the main and I only hope they continue to be so.

The only time it feels sluggish is when it is cold, the engine management does not allow you to tear along.When it is warmed up it is plenty quick enough for most people( 0-60 in 8 seconds isn't slow)

Go for the 250 auto if you have any and you wont regret it.

[ISwannabe]

Had a look around autotrader and found some nice 250's, I doubt I can get an MM one within my budget as I am ideally looking for an 07 plate, so I get a nice wedge of warranty with the car.

Is there much difference between the SE and SE-L, I must admit I do like the wood / chrome combo of the SE-L if mixed with a light colour leather.

There are some great deals to be had if I were going for an Accord, I just find their interiors shockingly bland and tacky. Anyone else think that? The Lexus cabin just seems to ooze quality.

I doubt Lexus are going to give me a good price for my Jag, Parkers say GBP 9700 with 20,000 on the clock. Mine has 32k ish but does have a lot of optional extras on it which should hopefully make a difference to the valuation (electric leather seats, sport body kit, parking sensors, cruise etc)

I have found an 06 250 Auto SE-L with 16k on the clock for GBP 14, 000. What kind of discount do you think I should be pushing for given the current environment.... it is a buyers market after all.

Thanks for all the advice

Happy New Year everyone.

[dgman]

the biggest complaint with the is220d has always been reliability and economy.

mine has left me stranded 3 times at the roadside in limp home mode, even after all the mods.

i know these forums have seen plenty of people tempted to the lexus brand with the IS looks but have then left becuase of these two issues.

and everytime there is a debate about fuel dggman seems to pop up quoting the mythical 40mpg. where as others, me included get around 29mpg consistently. mine is an is220d sport, i get 29mpg with the majority of my driving being motorway miles.

and then that usually leads to a slanging match about driving styles etc to account for the differences in mpg.

here is what you have to do. get an is220d for a test drive and reset the mpg then take ot for a good 24hr test drive.

this will give you the best indication of what mpg figures you can get. you may have found the unicorn crap powered lexus that achieves that mythical 40mpg.

if you want economy the is220d isnt the way to go. if you want the looks then go for it, it is a pretty car. but its not economical. and my experience is rattles, creeks, and roadside breakdowns.

more than in all the other cars i have ever owned (and one of thos was a rover :-)

i can understand that you are not a happy bunny and you have told us so by"popping up"on this topic.there is no myth about the mpg that i acheive from my 220 nor is there any myth that in almost 50,000 miles of driving my 220 has been totally reliable,it's a pity that you did'nt notice "the unicorn crap power" when you had your test drive.

[gib]

Over 10 - 20 years, Electronics/Technology revolutionised car diesels - equally applying to petrol engines which had a functional head-start, making improvements which more than kept pace. The reality remains: Diesel is the poor-man's petrol and transforms prestige cars into wannabe prestige cars which are comparatively rough, slow and smelly; but cheaper to run.

In the IS range, the 4-cylinder IS 220D has it fans, some believing despite every bit of data that higher torque over a tiny rev range makes it swifter than the larger 6-cylinder IS250. It is widely acknowledged however, the IS250 + the superb auto box with paddle manual is supreme in smoothness and performance - but with higher fuel costs. Add MM and the bells and whistles you want and it won't disappoint. After it, the 220D seems a great car turned cheap, nasty and pretentious.

Couldn't have summed it up any better myself.

Gies a shot o' yer ISF..............

[digg2]

i can understand that you are not a happy bunny and you have told us so by"popping up"on this topic.there is no myth about the mpg that i acheive from my 220 nor is there any myth that in almost 50,000 miles of driving my 220 has been totally reliable,it's a pity that you did'nt notice "the unicorn crap power" when you had your test drive.

mpg has never worried me as i am lucky enough to have a fuel card, so if the 220 only did 5mpg on my test drive i still wouldn't have given a hoot. but for some people who have to pay for their own fuel mpg is important.

i will admit that i didnt get any break downs on the test drive :-) the first happened a month after delivery.

[philthy]

ISwannabe: Best advice? Do a search on here and make your own mind up. You will always have two camps giving opposing views. Take the 48hr test drive and make your own mind up. Treat it like your own. All brands have issues, it just depends how they get handled and how you as the paying customer get treated. Bear in mind that the Lexus dealership support ranges from very good to diabolical once they have your money and that Lexus GB are conspicuous by their absence in any complaint. Do the rounds on all the diesels if that's what you want. There's better out there as there are petrols. It just depends on what floats your boat and how big a risk you want to take. Good luck.

[ISwannabe]

Thanks for all the advice.

I am going down to Lexus today to have a quick look around and maybe have a test drive.

I must admit if I had the extra cash available, I would also have a look at the new 08 Accord. Looks very nice indeed, they have certainly made the interior look alot more classy IMHO.

[ISwannabe]

Just got back from my local Lexus dealer, had a drive of the 250 Auto and its a very nice car.

However they were only willing to offer me 6,500GBP for my Jaguar, these cars are exchanging hands for over 10,500GBP on Autotrader. As it stands I have made nearly a 10,000 GBP loss over one year on a 2nd hand motor :tsktsk:

I appreciate that its swings and roundabouts etc and cars are cheaper at the moment, but 6,500 GBP.....

On that basis I am unable to change my car.

Salesman was a nice guy and the dealer treated us well however.

[FinLex]

Haven't been bothered to drop by here for a long, long time. IMHO, this forum is the ultimate 220d hatemongerers' club. I think about 99 % of all the negative comments I have ever read or heard on the 220d have been posted in here. I have absolutely no interest going down the all too familiar is not / is too road, so this is my only post on this thread.

I went through a very thorough car selection procedure in 2006/07, tested just about all the diesel alternatives and a few petrol ones too (from Skoda Octavia to BMW 5-series, and yes the IS 250 Auto as well), and ended up buying the 220d Sport. After almost two years and 38k miles, I have had no problems whatsoever. The mileage is very consistent at 48 MPG overall, 50+ easily achievable on a run. For urban driving the 220d is a poor choice, but as a cruiser it's very good. The standard gearbox is the real Achilles' heel of the 220d, the gearing on that one is very untraditional, to say the least.

I'm pretty sure there are some real bargains to be found among the 220d's, as it has gotten a lot more bad press than I think it deserves. My experience and the experiences of other 220d owners I've come across in real life are most definitely not at all in line with the consensus on this forum. Luck can't cover it.

[nidgemo]

I have no interest in German products, so I guess I will have to have a butchers at the 2.2 Accord at some point.

My dad had a IS220d as a courtesy car and I had a brief sit in the drivers seat. It felt and looked a class act in the cabin and I do love the exterior, very edgy and modern.

I have submitted my details for a 48hr test drive anyway, won't do any harm.

Anybody happy with their 220d?

I've only had mine a month, it's a just over 2 year old 220D with 34k miles.

No creaks, no rattles, brilliantly specced, well finished interior, great looking, comfortable, and, coming from a 3 series, I find it quieter, much more comfortable, every bit as good to drive, and all in all I'm over the moon. I don't find first or second clunky at all - "satisfyingly solid" is what I'd call it - and was cruising happily up the motorway in 6th at 70mph the other day - you wouldn't get much accelleration from the 6th gear, but you can just drop down!

Fuel economy IS low, though (mid 20's on town driving, about mid to high 30's on A roads - However, I've contacted lexus about it, and they are happy to look at it and do what they can, so hopefully it'll get sorted.)

[nidgemo]

this will give you the best indication of what mpg figures you can get. you may have found the unicorn crap powered lexus that achieves that mythical 40mpg.

It's also worth you noting that forums like this will, naturally, draw people who want to have a big complain, much more so than people who want to say "Hi All. I've had absoloutely no problems, this week. Again!"

This guy in particular seems to have a big bee in his bonnet, but I can say categorically, even though my town running MPG is low, that I done 42mpg on an a road run yesterday, and even that was in some traffic, with slowing down, speeding up, accelerating on overtaking lanes, etc.

Over 10 - 20 years, Electronics/Technology revolutionised car diesels - equally applying to petrol engines which had a functional head-start, making improvements which more than kept pace. The reality remains: Diesel is the poor-man's petrol and transforms prestige cars into wannabe prestige cars which are comparatively rough, slow and smelly; but cheaper to run.

In the IS range, the 4-cylinder IS 220D has it fans, some believing despite every bit of data that higher torque over a tiny rev range makes it swifter than the larger 6-cylinder IS250. It is widely acknowledged however, the IS250 + the superb auto box with paddle manual is supreme in smoothness and performance - but with higher fuel costs. Add MM and the bells and whistles you want and it won't disappoint. After it, the 220D seems a great car turned cheap, nasty and pretentious.

And this is just the "Petrol only" type you'll see on any car forum, who thinks diesel is satans ***** and won't be convinced otherwise.

[digg2]

This guy in particular seems to have a big bee in his bonnet, but I can say categorically, even though my town running MPG is low, that I done 42mpg on an a road run yesterday, and even that was in some traffic, with slowing down, speeding up, accelerating on overtaking lanes, etc.

Yes, I probably have. Probably with good reason though. When your car decides to go in limp home mode when your wife is driving in the outside lane of a motorway you would probably be as concerned too. And a second time leaving her stranded on the hard shoulder. With that I could never recommend this car. Me I have had limp home twice. Another is probably due...

A person has asked about experiences of the car and I have relayed mine. Just as you have yours. Neither is more valid than the other. In fact I stated that the original poster should do a test drive for themselves, as that would be the only way you can decide.

Here are a load of others too.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=2249

A mixed bag of people happy and people unhappy. And it looks like some are still experiencing the 5th injector break down.

It's a good looking car, but reliability counts more than looks. And mine just isn't reliable. Want to swap?

[Steve]

if you get the 220 then get all the niggles sorted, then its a fine car.

On the motorway the 220 is a good car, acceleration is excellent compared to loads of other diesels i have driven. Keeps up with a lot of the germen equivalents.

i had a 1.8 diesel mondeo that can only do 45mpg and was crap compared to the IS.

[nidgemo]

Yes, I probably have. Probably with good reason though. When your car decides to go in limp home mode when your wife is driving in the outside lane of a motorway you would probably be as concerned too. And a second time leaving her stranded on the hard shoulder. With that I could never recommend this car. Me I have had limp home twice. Another is probably due...

Fair enough - can't argue with that!

It's a good looking car, but reliability counts more than looks. And mine just isn't reliable. Want to swap?

Ermmmm, no. :winky:

[Haf]

3 years and 60 thousand miles in a 220d for me and i'm off to get a bmw as the 250 is not a viable company car from a cost perspective. Shame as everything else (mpg/gearbox aside) can't be faulted but I'm willing to give up a few toys (haven't even got around to trying voice control or dvd playback) for a a decent engine/gearbox combination.