Is220d Or 250?

[ISwannabe]

Hi all, be easy on me please, first time post and all that :D

Basically I currently own a Jaguar 2.2 Turbo Diesel and am looking to possibly change to a Lexus.

My father owns a 01 GS300 which he loves and he always speaks so highly of Lexus customer services (something which I can not say about Jaguar.) His experiences have basically made up my mind for me.

I had decided to start looking for a 220d, however was shocked to read the various problems owners seem to be having.

Mechanical breakdowns etc seems very un-Lexus like to me and this has got me thinking whether I should change or not.

I want to buy a Lexus for genuine reliability, not to take it to the dealers every 2 months.

I am fed up of all the niggly problems I have had with my current car over the past year, but touchwood it has not let me down badly, unlike some of the reports regarding the IS220D.

I drive 15,000 miles (motorway) or so every year, hence my choice to buy a diesel last year. However given the price at the pumps now, it would seem there would be little difference between buying a 220d and a 250 and from the looks of it, I would have a lot less problems with the petrol unit.

I'm just looking for some advice really on which way to go.

Is the IS200d really that bad? Is the 6th gear really useless?

What consumption can I expect from the 250? How many miles do people get from a tank?

Cheers

Nick

[ColinBarber]

do you want auto or manual transmission?

[simon k]

in my opionion dont get a 220d, i have a 56 plate one, had all the updates injector change ect, current mpg 29.9.

also suffers from the ratles creaks ect. i have been a lexus owner for the last 6/7 years and the experience i have had with the 220d has made me make up my mind to get rid and move to another brand, like a few other owners on here.

if you decide you want one go for the 250 auto but still expect low 30 mpg and a service every 10k which are not the cheapest.

[ISwannabe]

Which gives the better actual consumption, the auto or the manual?

In my current car I'm getting around 41mpg ish, 550 miles to a tank.

Thanks

[ColinBarber]

Which gives the better actual consumption, the auto or the manual?

In my current car I'm getting around 41mpg ish, 550 miles to a tank.

Thanks

If you wanted an auto that would rule out the 220d. The auto 250 has better mpg over the manual version. You would probably get low 30s mpg in a 250.

[simon k]

asaid the 220d is only manual, 250 auto i believe is better mpg but only expect low 30mpg.

[shoggy]

I find milage varies depending were you live so to make a true statement ( who knows )

all published figures are on flat roads with no traffic

I get less than 20 urban generally

upto 38 on motorway dependant on traffic

[ISwannabe]

I would quite like a manual (hence the 220d is just fine for me) however if I were to look at the 250, I would need the highest MPG option.

To be honest I'm a little gutted after reading the owners reviews etc I assumed the 220d would be a good choice.

Have Lexus addressed any of the issues of the 220d? (not including the 5th injector).

[simon k]

the main issues i have had apat fom the poor mpg are the creaks and rattles, i have had a new front seat and other bits looked at but to be honest im that fed up with it i just cant be bothered with it no more.

it uses alot of oil and the light comes on well before the service is due, im supposed to take it in every 1000 miles so they can monitor when it uses the most oil,would you?

its got 28k ish on now had a complete set of tyres at 18k and a new set of rears this week 10k later.

the paint is so soft and the bonnet is covered in stone chips.

other members on here have had problems with the power sterring stoping working and the car going into crawl home mode but not sure if this is limited to the 220d.

i think this is the car [220d] that they shouldnt have made, and a few have said it will be the last deisel?

[ISwannabe]

I have no interest in German products, so I guess I will have to have a butchers at the 2.2 Accord at some point.

My dad had a IS220d as a courtesy car and I had a brief sit in the drivers seat. It felt and looked a class act in the cabin and I do love the exterior, very edgy and modern.

I have submitted my details for a 48hr test drive anyway, won't do any harm.

Anybody happy with their 220d?

[TonyB]

I have had on loan both the is Diesel and then the IS250 Auto (paddleshift)

At the time I owned a 1999 GS300 Sport (best car i've ever had)

The IS220 diesel is awful.........not at all lexus like......anybody who first gets introduced to the Lexus brand with one of these will be VERy disapointed. Horrid Gearbox......quirky handling.

Then I had an IS250, super smooth gearbox, good handling (i think it had larger boots than the diesel) and all the toys.

for me all IS's are too small....I now own a 2005 GS300 SE-L..........worth a look, filled up in Swindon last weekend.....drove around town 20miles then traveled back to north Notts.....Ave 35 MPG. (prev GS 26 mpg at best)

I have come to the conclusion however that the Latest Lexus models don't have the same build quality and feel as the previous models.........shame really. Big Sway for me is the Excellent Lexus Custard Service.

[giorgoXXI]

I have no interest in German products, so I guess I will have to have a butchers at the 2.2 Accord at some point.

My dad had a IS220d as a courtesy car and I had a brief sit in the drivers seat. It felt and looked a class act in the cabin and I do love the exterior, very edgy and modern.

I have submitted my details for a 48hr test drive anyway, won't do any harm.

Anybody happy with their 220d?

I am quite happy with the 220d. My version is the Sport, which they don't do anymore, and has better gearing ratios (usable 6th gear) and slightly better drive, but consumes a bit more than the 220d (and higher CO2).

The only disadvantages of the car I feel are rattles (which exist both on the 220 and 250) and in the 220d the 1st and 2nd gear are not the smoothest. Other than that, it looks great, interior is very good, loads of gadgets, superb sound system etc...

Just take it for a test drive and see what you think. If you buy new, you should not suffer 5th injector problems and all the other recalls.

6th gear on the standard model is only usable above 75 mph (so it is usable if you like to drive slightly above the legal limit).

The 250 is also a very good car, it is more refined and smoother than the diesel, but consumption is not that good and it lacks the low end torque the diesel has which makes it feel a bit sluggish in normal day to day driving.

[Boothby Coggles]

I've had my '06 220d just over a year and I'm well fed up with it. Not had problems with it, yet, that others have complained about, except consumption. It's a real fight to get an average of close to 40mpg and I suspect that it is starting to drop off since I had the 5th injector done. I have to drive it pretty gently other wise I would probably be in the low to mid 30s. This entails a lot of working of the gear stick.

It's been in dock for about a week with an oil leak on the gearbox, which don't think is down to a normal problem with the car, but more likely to be a garage-induced problem when they fitted a modified gear selector fork. I've had a base model 2l diesel Passat on loan during this time and, for me it knocked the living daylights out of the Lexus. Far more comfortable, a lot easier to drive, a far better gearbox and as for the consumption, avge 53mpg on a 70 mile round trip that would be struggle to get 38 with in the Lexus. The only crib I have about the VW is the size, larger than my needs.

Lexus Customer Services are, as far as I'm concerned, a total waste of time. When I wrote to them about issues I had about the dealership service, I got a standard letter back saying they had referred it to the dealer!

I'm still waiting, after 7 or 8 months, for the response from Lexus that was promised by them.

The Upshot: If you must have a Lexus, have the 250 Auto and don't touch the 220d. As soon as I can convince the wife, I'm going to look elsewhere & dump mine.

[dgman]

I've had my '06 220d just over a year and I'm well fed up with it. Not had problems with it, yet, that others have complained about, except consumption. It's a real fight to get an average of close to 40mpg and I suspect that it is starting to drop off since I had the 5th injector done. I have to drive it pretty gently other wise I would probably be in the low to mid 30s. This entails a lot of working of the gear stick.

It's been in dock for about a week with an oil leak on the gearbox, which don't think is down to a normal problem with the car, but more likely to be a garage-induced problem when they fitted a modified gear selector fork. I've had a base model 2l diesel Passat on loan during this time and, for me it knocked the living daylights out of the Lexus. Far more comfortable, a lot easier to drive, a far better gearbox and as for the consumption, avge 53mpg on a 70 mile round trip that would be struggle to get 38 with in the Lexus. The only crib I have about the VW is the size, larger than my needs.

Lexus Customer Services are, as far as I'm concerned, a total waste of time. When I wrote to them about issues I had about the dealership service, I got a standard letter back saying they had referred it to the dealer!

I'm still waiting, after 7 or 8 months, for the response from Lexus that was promised by them.

The Upshot: If you must have a Lexus, have the 250 Auto and don't touch the 220d. As soon as I can convince the wife, I'm going to look elsewhere & dump mine.

not a fair comparison,the passat will be much lower in bhp than the lex but if you were driving the tdi 170 then you would se similar mpg as the 220.

balance restored.

[Boothby Coggles]

I've had my '06 220d just over a year and I'm well fed up with it. Not had problems with it, yet, that others have complained about, except consumption. It's a real fight to get an average of close to 40mpg and I suspect that it is starting to drop off since I had the 5th injector done. I have to drive it pretty gently other wise I would probably be in the low to mid 30s. This entails a lot of working of the gear stick.

It's been in dock for about a week with an oil leak on the gearbox, which don't think is down to a normal problem with the car, but more likely to be a garage-induced problem when they fitted a modified gear selector fork. I've had a base model 2l diesel Passat on loan during this time and, for me it knocked the living daylights out of the Lexus. Far more comfortable, a lot easier to drive, a far better gearbox and as for the consumption, avge 53mpg on a 70 mile round trip that would be struggle to get 38 with in the Lexus. The only crib I have about the VW is the size, larger than my needs.

Lexus Customer Services are, as far as I'm concerned, a total waste of time. When I wrote to them about issues I had about the dealership service, I got a standard letter back saying they had referred it to the dealer!

I'm still waiting, after 7 or 8 months, for the response from Lexus that was promised by them.

The Upshot: If you must have a Lexus, have the 250 Auto and don't touch the 220d. As soon as I can convince the wife, I'm going to look elsewhere & dump mine.

not a fair comparison,the passat will be much lower in bhp than the lex but if you were driving the tdi 170 then you would se similar mpg as the 220.

balance restored.

True, but I reckon the Passat 170 would still have better consumption and "driveability" than the IS. Also I doubt very much that it would have the turbo lag that the IS has.

[dgman]

y

I've had my '06 220d just over a year and I'm well fed up with it. Not had problems with it, yet, that others have complained about, except consumption. It's a real fight to get an average of close to 40mpg and I suspect that it is starting to drop off since I had the 5th injector done. I have to drive it pretty gently other wise I would probably be in the low to mid 30s. This entails a lot of working of the gear stick.

It's been in dock for about a week with an oil leak on the gearbox, which don't think is down to a normal problem with the car, but more likely to be a garage-induced problem when they fitted a modified gear selector fork. I've had a base model 2l diesel Passat on loan during this time and, for me it knocked the living daylights out of the Lexus. Far more comfortable, a lot easier to drive, a far better gearbox and as for the consumption, avge 53mpg on a 70 mile round trip that would be struggle to get 38 with in the Lexus. The only crib I have about the VW is the size, larger than my needs.

Lexus Customer Services are, as far as I'm concerned, a total waste of time. When I wrote to them about issues I had about the dealership service, I got a standard letter back saying they had referred it to the dealer!

I'm still waiting, after 7 or 8 months, for the response from Lexus that was promised by them.

The Upshot: If you must have a Lexus, have the 250 Auto and don't touch the 220d. As soon as I can convince the wife, I'm going to look elsewhere & dump mine.

not a fair comparison,the passat will be much lower in bhp than the lex but if you were driving the tdi 170 then you would se similar mpg as the 220.

balance restored.

True, but I reckon the Passat 170 would still have better consumption and "driveability" than the IS. Also I doubt very much that it would have the turbo lag that the IS has.

you will have to let us know on that one.

[chevin]

I joined this forum on the basis I would buy a 220 D in the summer. Like ISwanabee (wish I'd though of that one !) I'm having second doubts. The default was always a diesel would always return higher mpg - I only do 12 k p.a. and have n't done the sums yet. I'm now getting round to thinking of a 250 auto as everyone likes them - others to consider are Mazda 6 and Honda Accord - approx outlay wil be around £ 15 k cash. mazda owners also have the debate on nmpg as they get around late 30's and they were promised late 40 's. A colleage has just replaced his Accord with mpg at early 40's and teh manufacturere says late 40's early 50's.

Apprecaite forums tend to log the discontent - just be aware that you are lucky not to own anything French !!!

[dgman]

the audi,vw and even the bmw forums have many complaint's about mpg not reaching manufacturers official figures.in fact the audi /vw owners complain about their fuel computers giving wrong mpg by as much as 15%.

iswanabee,the problems with the 5th injector are specific to the 220 and since the recall,i know of no breakdown's posted here.

the problems with rattles and creaks are 220 and 250.

the engine rebuild's are entirely 250 only.

i think you should expect 28 from a 250 and 38 from a 220.if so then the 250 will cost you about £380 more per year in fuel alone,plus the extra insurance and the extra ved,all in about £800-£1000 extra per year.all said ,you need to test drive both and decide which one fits your needs best.

don't forget to zero the avg on your test drives. :)

[ISwannabe]

Thanks for all the replies.

I will have a wonder down to my local dealer to have a look soon. They have always treated my father very well there, nothing is too much trouble..... and he hasn't even purchased a car from them!

All my miles are basically motorway miles and in the Jag you can sit in 6th from around 55 upwards with no issue, the unusable 6th gear idea does bother me. I will have to see on the test drive.

I would hope for more than 28 though from the 250 on my motorway runs, isn't 35mpg a good ball park figure for a 70mph cruise?

If I were to go for the 220d, should I really be looking for an 07 plate or something of that era to avoid the mechanical problems?

Is the auto a CVT Auto for road tax purposes?

Cheers

[dgman]

Thanks for all the replies.

I will have a wonder down to my local dealer to have a look soon. They have always treated my father very well there, nothing is too much trouble..... and he hasn't even purchased a car from them!

All my miles are basically motorway miles and in the Jag you can sit in 6th from around 55 upwards with no issue, the unusable 6th gear idea does bother me. I will have to see on the test drive.

I would hope for more than 28 though from the 250 on my motorway runs, isn't 35mpg a good ball park figure for a 70mph cruise?

If I were to go for the 220d, should I really be looking for an 07 plate or something of that era to avoid the mechanical problems?

Is the auto a CVT Auto for road tax purposes?

Cheers

i was refering to combined fuel figures,i get over 50 at 70mph in 6th.as with all cars later models should have less glitches ,the engine problems are with the 250,not the 220.the auto box is not a cvt unit.

[ISwannabe]

I was trying to refer to the 5th injector issue and low mpg problems reported when I mentioned mechanical issues.

Regarding the cvt, I have seen a couple of 250's advertised by Lexus, this puts the car into a lower road tax bracket (F) and means a reduction in my road tax bill.

What is CVT referring to? I have seen this mentioned on Parkers when you select the exact model from the drop down menus.

Cheers

[dgman]

I was trying to refer to the 5th injector issue and low mpg problems reported when I mentioned mechanical issues.

Regarding the cvt, I have seen a couple of 250's advertised by Lexus as this, this puts the car into a lower road tax bracket (F) and means a reduction in my road tax bill.

What is CVT referring to? I have seen this mentioned on Parkers when you select the exact model from the drop down menus.

Cheers

as said in first post ,since the recall afaik there have been no breakdowns reported,the auto 250 is less ved because it has lower emissions than the manual.cvt means continuously variable transmission.

[tash]

ISwannabe, I have just sold my IS220d today after a very short ownership, just couldn't get away with it, I like yourself really like (still do) the looks and styling

Have had lots of diesel cars and the IS220d is the strangest gearbox/engine combination of them all, 1st and 6th gear take a lot of getting used to, I certainly wouldn't put you off but would say that you take a very long test drive with the 48hr drive probably your best bet (make full use of it)

I had all the niggles, rattles, poor mpg, poor performance etc, but all where sorted by excellent dealership care, but the car which was an 07 07 never felt punchy as the german TDi/CDi's or even the Ford/Jaguar TDCi's do and as such I think you will be disappointed jumping out of the Jaguar 2.2d into the IS220d, I had the Mondeo 130 TDCi and that felt a lot quicker than the IS and used to give 44-46mpg.

Whilst my car was in for repairs I had a 250 auto twice and IS220d once, when I had the 250 auto first time around I realised I had made a mistake and also how good a Lexus could/should be.

Give the IS220d a go as it may suit but also try the 250 auto as well

[ISwannabe]

Tash thanks for that.

I can not complain regarding the gearbox / engine combo in my Jaguar, its a great drivers car and very frugal. Its just all the niggles that come with it, in less than one year of ownership I have had to have....

1. The drivers side electric window fixed TWICE

2. EGR valve replaced (Dealer were not interested in helping me even though the car was under full warranty)

3. Both key fobs changed due to problems

4. The rear bumper needs fixing back onto the car on the tailgate (the STICKERS gave in)

5. There is an annoying interior gearbox rattle that they never seem able to fix.

6. Premature rear tyre wear, I needed to replace all 4 tyres in the end (apparently common on Jags).

7. Whilst the car was in the dealership they found a problem with the rear track ends or something along those lines.

That is far too much for my liking, ok not major mechanical issues, but just annoying little items which really lead you to question the build quality.

The way the dealer treated me over the EGR issue was simply terrible.

I want a Lexus for a more trouble free existance, I am really warming to the idea of the 250 Auto. Looks an interesting combination

What is the flappy paddle gear box like?

[treborlex]

If you want a IS then the 250 Auto is the best combo imo,

as for the paddle shift I only use it now and again when I want a spirited drive :winky: but it's good fun.