Dsl Or Adsl

[FuntimePhil]

i work for vigin media and my opinion is cable broadband is way advanced over its adsl rivals. what you guys think?

[Mark W]

You need to back up your statement with facts and reason surely ?

Also - wasn't aware that cable was DSL - ADSL is a type of DSL it's just asynchronous (different upload vs download) where as SDSL is Synchronous ( ie the same up as down)

Edited December 12, 2008 by Mark W

[Steviewevie]

Also - wasn't aware that cable was DSL - ADSL is a type of DSL it's just asynchronous (different upload vs download) where as SDSL is Synchronous ( ie the same up as down)

Sorry to be pedantic, but the "A" and "S" are for Asymmetric and Symmetric.

[Mark W]

Apology accepted ;)

You are correct and I don't know where on earth mine came from....been a long day

[FuntimePhil]

yes cable broadband is DSL, through a fibre optic cable, enabling higher speeds, and lower contention ratios. We have just launched 50mb broadband and are now trialing our 100mb. Something that no adsl provider can do. As far as im aware bt's copper wire can only go up to 26mb so there done for.

[Parthiban]

I think it's arguable both ways but in my experience as a cable customer, it's a far superior experience. I have a 4Mb connection and I always get 4Mb, 24 hrs a day.

Although I actually think the same of Sky TV, except for the amount of Sky HD content, I couldn't find myself ever switching to sky as it's so much more expensive and I can't stand the drop in picture quality from cable.

Cable really is the way forward (shown quite clearly by the US) but it just hasn't picked up in this country due to poor management.

If you actually work for VM, is there any news on when we actually might be getting some new HD channels? I noticed they've moved a ton of channels around (hoping that might be the sign) but I still think they're messing about with MPEG2...........

[aztecbandit1]

We have Virgin cable, can i just ask why does it keep freezing? i'd expect it to happen now and again with a sat dish but thought cable would be a continous feed?

Mate you shoudnt of posted up about working for Virgin, i have a lot of trouble with them so you'll probably get bombarded with questions now

[Parthiban]

We have Virgin cable, can i just ask why does it keep freezing? i'd expect it to happen now and again with a sat dish but thought cable would be a continous feed?

Mate you shoudnt of posted up about working for Virgin, i have a lot of trouble with them so you'll probably get bombarded with questions now

Is that the internet or the TV? Sounds bizarre, never had that problem with either service. The biggest problem with VM are their outsourced call centres who seem so reluctant to send an engineer out when you need one. Thankfully I haven't had to use it much so I'm happy :)

[Steviewevie]

yes cable broadband is DSL, through a fibre optic cable

Sorry, but I don't think that's right, cable broadband is not DSL. DSL/ADSL are used over copper wires from phone exchanges. Cable uses a completely different technology.

We have Virgin cable, can i just ask why does it keep freezing? i'd expect it to happen now and again with a sat dish but thought cable would be a continous feed?

That doesn't sound right, I have no such problems (touch wood !) with my Virgin cable. I'd report that to Virgin and to get them to come and check it out. Might be that you need a new box, or perhaps there's a problem in your local area.

[aztecbandit1]

Yeh it happens on the TV, and my broadband disconects quite regular so i have to keep resetting the modem? Weve had them out a few times for the phone not working, Tv freezing and locking up , and my broadband going down? But it still happens quite a bit

[Steviewevie]

Yeh it happens on the TV, and my broadband disconects quite regular so i have to keep resetting the modem? Weve had them out a few times for the phone not working, Tv freezing and locking up , and my broadband going down? But it still happens quite a bit

Sounds like a fault in your area, if it's affecting both your TV's box and the separate cable modem. That definitely shouldn't be happening.

[MacRS200]

Sorry, but I don't think that's right, cable broadband is not DSL. DSL/ADSL are used over copper wires from phone exchanges. Cable uses a completely different technology.

The 10Mb broadband I have from Virgin is ADSL, you are right in that it uses different technology but is just the transmission media that's different.

In the UK the final connection to the end user is still copper.

[FuntimePhil]

whhhooa theres a few Q's

Ok HD Content first, apart from bbc and itv HD there are no other tru HD channels, with the exeption of sky sports (which we will have january), the other HD channels on sky are false they are "increased pixelation" channels, which is a very very minimal increase in quality. as soon as channels broadcast in HD we will have them

Aztec, do you have a V+ box or standard V? it shouldnt freeze, if its a problem PM me your details n i can have a look. might need a box swap.

And cable is definitely DSL, well you can only use it with a DSL modem/router

[FuntimePhil]

Sorry, but I don't think that's right, cable broadband is not DSL. DSL/ADSL are used over copper wires from phone exchanges. Cable uses a completely different technology.

The 10Mb broadband I have from Virgin is ADSL, you are right in that it uses different technology but is just the transmission media that's different.

In the UK the final connection to the end user is still copper.

from the DP in the street to your house yes it is coaxle, but that is the same for any cable provider any where. its not feasable to run fibre to the property and to the computer.

you will always end up with a copper connection, as the cable from your modem to your computer is copper

[Steviewevie]

And cable is definitely DSL, well you can only use it with a DSL modem/router

Sorry but I still don't think that's correct.

Virgin cable uses cable modems. You can't plug a router straight into it normally (unlike where you have ADSL and and ADSL router that has a built-in ADSL modem). For cable you plug a router into your existing Virgin cable modem.

[Kazi]

Id agree its far more reliable and most certainly less likely to get interference.

[FuntimePhil]

And cable is definitely DSL, well you can only use it with a DSL modem/router

Sorry but I still don't think that's correct.

Virgin cable uses cable modems. You can't plug a router straight into it normally (unlike where you have ADSL and and ADSL router that has a built-in ADSL modem). For cable you plug a router into your existing Virgin cable modem.

thats correct but you still have to buy a dsl router. an ads; router doesnt work as that plugs into a phone socket. a dsl router connects to an ethernet port.

[Steviewevie]

thats correct but you still have to buy a dsl router. an ads; router doesnt work as that plugs into a phone socket. a dsl router connects to an ethernet port.

Sorry but your terminology is all wrong. A DSL router connects to a DSL line (e.g. via a phone socket). The type of router that you're talking about is just an Ethernet router, i.e. a standard router, that's what cable needs to use.

[Steviewevie]

Have a look at this definition of DSL

[Geoffers]

DSL and cable is just really a terminology thing really but has become a way if differentiating the very different technologies. Technically you can apply the term to both.

DSL terminology is not usually applied to cable as it was first applied as a "subscription" of digital signal over copper. Subscription meaning to affix, rather than from a customer subscriber point of view. Virgin actually market DSL separately on copper telephone lines in the outlying areas they can't provide to.

I have really pushed cable. I work in both fields, very much at hardware level and not for any particular company as most of you know.

I have BT with DSL, two cable TV boxes and 20mb broadband. (Some of this is for my business, I'm not just a silly geek!!)

In theory cable should knock spots off dsl but does not always deliver in everyday practical use because of headend equipment, business management, bandwidth shaping (which they still don't have right), - there are quite a few reasons. I think geographical oversubscription is the main problem for cable.

I've actually pushed for cable for many years because it should be better. The technology is more stable, controllable and can provide more. The problem is the companies delivering it and their investment.

Over the years there have been many "maximum speeds" over copper. Quite few years ago I remember when they managed a whopping 250k in one test! Never would that be surpassed and had reached the "maximum it will ever get". DSL as the public knows it is limited around the 20mb range but with hdsl and vdsl it goes very much higher already. A lot of this is based over distance rather than copper itself, although they've already got over the 20,000ft limit for 64mb down and 32mb up. New methods are being implemented all the time so that won't stay.

It certainly won't when the DSLAMS are at the end of the street (or close) in the green boxes. Very soon it will be 100mb network to the customers on DSL. (as in trials have already been happening this year).

Bt wanted to bring fibre to the home but the government blocked it (around 1985) to make way for the cable companies. BT and a few backbone providers are looking at implementing it now. Another reason is to get rid of the unsightly overhead copper cables. Once its at the home, short cat6 UTP can easily cope with 10GB/Sec.

In saying that, DSL has had the advantage of slower speeds so equipment has held up a lot more therefore they don't have the loads that cable has on their equipment. Once it gets shifted to the provider then there are other elements involved.

What will happen when the faster speeds become available on DSL will be interesting - they may not have the same issues that cable has because the DSL will be the transport medium only to the local dslam where it is then converted and shifted out to separate ISP companies with their own investment. Contention will virtually cease as it will only be to the local DSLAM.

As I said earlier, I've always pushed for cable because you are absolutely right - it should be better. It isn't always the case though and we can't just go on raw figures. Actual usage and variation is the key to an overall service. Cable isn't as good as it should be, and certainly can't sustain a fair distribution. Pound for pound though, it depends on the deal you get. Once you start moving into higher areas with more of a guaranteed dsl service supporting QOS, etc. I'm afraid it knock spots of cable. The disadvantage is cost so I guess cable wins there.

The biggest problem between cable and DSL is that cable it is effectively one company now and bound by their terms and implementation. With DSL you have a degree of choice. At the moment you are restricted at "last mile" with BT but that is changing where you will have complete choice and companies will be competing a little more.

Overall, it varies significantly between regions on both technologies. You can get 3 month trials of both so sometimes it is better testing.

My 8mb adsl (getting roughly 6mb in reality) is better than my 20MB cable about 60% of the time.

The mad thing is, I stick with cable because I know it should be better because of the technology and hope they will make the changes. There are a few more things coming up soon that will help on the cable side. There are things I see and feel like ringing the necks of the upper management to implement a technology that will make massive changes and put them streets ahead of DSL.

I'm the same with the TV. One of my boxes continually freezes and there is no uplink light. I ring up, no records on me previously ringing. All they do is reset the box and tell me to ring back. Its not the cable connection because if I swap rooms with boxes, the same fault exists on the same box. Its a normal Pace. Hows V+ going by the way? Any software updates due yet? When they get the software a little better I may go for that. (Running Tivo at the mo but will be stuck when I go HD)

[FuntimePhil]

lol i assure you it is a dsl router required for cable broadband.

run any search on the internet or pop into any pc store. if you want a router for cable broadband you have to buy a dsl one. Adsl will not work

[Steviewevie]

Nice post Geoffers :D

[Steviewevie]

lol i assure you it is a dsl router required for cable broadband.

run any search on the internet or pop into any pc store. if you want a router for cable broadband you have to buy a dsl one. Adsl will not work

Well, you could use an ADSL router for cable I think, but it'd be a waste of money since you wouldn't use the in-built ADSL modem.

What you need is a normal router which will work fine. You might find some routers advertised as Cable/DSL routers which means they can connect to cable modems *or* DSL modems (e.g. ADSL modems).

[Parthiban]

In theory cable should knock spots off dsl but does not always deliver in everyday practical use because of headend equipment, business management, bandwidth shaping (which they still don't have right), - there are quite a few reasons. I think geographical oversubscription is the main problem for cable.

I've actually pushed for cable for many years because it should be better. The technology is more stable, controllable and can provide more. The problem is the companies delivering it and their investment.

I'm the same with the TV. One of my boxes continually freezes and there is no uplink light. I ring up, no records on me previously ringing. All they do is reset the box and tell me to ring back. Its not the cable connection because if I swap rooms with boxes, the same fault exists on the same box. Its a normal Pace. Hows V+ going by the way? Any software updates due yet? When they get the software a little better I may go for that. (Running Tivo at the mo but will be stuck when I go HD)

Incredibly informative post there Geoff, cheers for that :)

Yep it's a shame cable was never well managed as they really should have done better than they did..........I still don't understand how people put up with the PQ on Sky when cable is so much better!

With regard to the TV, I think you might need a new box. I had a problem where the guide would show no information every so often, they said I had to keep rebooting the box which I wasn't happy with - engineer came out and swapped the box and all is fine.

The engineers are usually pretty good, it's just getting one out that's the problem, as long as you insist strongly that you want someone to come out, they should be able to sort things for you.

[Steviewevie]

I would think that if you say you're going to cancel your service and switch to Sky, because you're not happy with your box freezing/whatever, then they'll send someone round with a new box pretty sharpish !