Geometry Done Today

[Paradroid]

I went to get my geometry done today (at Drury Lane Garage in Oldham, WIM is too far for me). Got to say, they did an excellent job, and were very helpful and professional. In anyone's in the wrong part of the country to get to WIM, I would recommend Drury Lane. Can I just say thanks to Tony for putting me in contact with them :)

But it's not all good news. When they first did the geometry test, everything was highlighted green (within tolerances) on three corners of the car but the printout was showing red on the offside front. It was looking fairly certain there was something not right there. I then went off for a couple of hours while they set the geometry to Tony's spec. Anyway when I came back, they'd not been able to get the front offside right, and had found a bent lower suspension arm. With the car back down off the ramp, it's bloomin obvious as well. The wheel is too far back in the arch (towards the rear of the car, not the inside). It's funny, I've sometimes looked at the front wheel and thought something looked odd, but could never work out why. Wish I'd spotted that sooner.

So the upshot is I've had the full geometry done, the car drives much better already, but obviously there's more to come when the arm is replaced. A slight downside is that in trying to fix the geometry on that corner the wheel is now slightly further back than it was before I took it in, so it's catching the arch liner when I do a low speed turn.

I'm planning to go back to Drury Lane for then fit a new arm, because they can then finish off the geometry on that corner of the car and finally get it 100%. I'll get it done ASAP before the tyre gets damaged from catching the arch.

Previous owner of my car sure was a careless git - I spent £150 the week before last getting new parking sensors because he'd reversed into something and knackered one of them. This car is costing me a fortune.

[DJ Wozza]

This car is costing me a fortune.

To quote Scorps

If it's got tits or Tyres it's gonna cost ya

Anyway sorry about the bent bits, but after it's fixed, the car will be feeling great after the WIMming set-up

[Paradroid]

Cheers Wozza. I know all cars cost money, it's just what's got me a bit annoyed is that it's not the car's fault it's the way it was treated before I got it. But that's always a risk with buying a used car I suppose.

Anyway you're right about the handling. It's loads better already - with a bent suspension arm! I never really noticed before but it felt a bit lively at higher speeds, now it feels a lot calmer. Steering feels much better, and the handling all round is a step up. But there's more to come when I can get the suspension arm sorted :)

[Tony-Bones]

I'm a little worried!...... Can you post the printout so i can see the final positions?

What worries me is if all was "green" before then i don't understand why you now have the OSF wheel set back. My procedure for the calibration moves the wheel forward not back.

[WylieCoyote]

Tony, do you do all cars or just Lexus? Say for example do you do Volvo S80's????

[Paradroid]

I'm a little worried!...... Can you post the printout so i can see the final positions?

What worries me is if all was "green" before then i don't understand why you now have the OSF wheel set back. My procedure for the calibration moves the wheel forward not back.

Don't think you need to worry mate, only three corners were green beforehand. One corner was all red!

My car is now set up to your spec apart from the offside front which they couldn't get right because of the bent suspension arm. I do think the wheel is further back than it was because it never caught the arch before I took it in, but I'm guess that the adjustments they have made have exaggerated the problem with the bent arm. They made quite a few adjustments because they managed to get all but the castor angle correct.

I'll PM you the report :)

[Tony-Bones]

Report read, thanks for that...... I can see though triangulation the criminal is a twisted lower control arm... maybe a tie rod for good measure, nevertheless good work from Drury lane.

[Paradroid]

More grief with this now :(

Got the car back Friday after paying £170 to get the lower suspension arm replaced. Wheel still not central in arch, and the car was all over the place to drive because of course the geometry place had done the alignment with a bent arm.

So I took it to a place down the road to try and get the geometry done just to a point where the car was driveable, they weren't happy with the wheel position and found another bent suspension component - the bracket near the wheel.

He reckons I need to change that and something else, so the car's with him (I can't really drive it anyway). Getting a price today.

Over £300 down already from getting the geometry done and the arm replaced. Reckon I'm looking at another £300 as well probably.

And no car!

[Steviewevie]

Aargh, what a nightmare Paradroid ! Hope you get it all sorted soon.

[Paradroid]

Yeah thanks Steve

I'm a bit gutted really, I thought I'd checked the car over really carefully when I bought it, but it just goes to show there's always something that can be missed. An RAC inspection is looking good with hindsight!

It's one of those situations where I just have to pay out and get it fixed. Already spent too much to make it worthwhile cutting my losses and selling up (plus I love the car) so I just hope this next set of work is the end of it!

Anyway I'm happy that there's nothing really serious to this problem, it's in an accident repair place and they've checked the car over because they were suspicious of more damage, but they are happy that the car and chassis itself is fine, just the suspension that's suffered some damage :)

[Steviewevie]

Anyway I'm happy that there's nothing really serious to this problem, it's in an accident repair place and they've checked the car over because they were suspicious of more damage, but they are happy that the car and chassis itself is fine, just the suspension that's suffered some damage :)

I'd be worrying too what else might be damaged. But it's good to hear that it seems ok. I wonder what happened to it ? Perhaps someone gave a kerb a hard whack at speed and didn't realise there was any damage because it was "only" the wheel ?

[Paradroid]

I think it's most likely to be a kerbing too. There's no bodywork damage at the front that's for sure, and underneath there's no signs of any other damage.

The previous owner must be an idiot though, I found a spare tyre in the boot worn down to the bracing on the inside, I thought this was the common Lexus tyre wear problems, but it's obviously down to everything being misaligned on one corner. You'd think he'd have realised something was wrong when his tyre wore down like that after smacking a kerb or whatever he did

Anyway I've had some good news, the bent bracket is only £30, and two hours labour so I'm looking at about 80+VAT.

There is another part the garage wanted to change as a precaution but he checked and that is 125+VAT for that part, so he's going to try just the bracket first.

If it turns out to just be the bracket I'll be quite relieved :)

[Tony-Bones]

Do you want me to call them for technical support or are you happy with how things are going?

[Paradroid]

Do you want me to call them for technical support or are you happy with how things are going?

Wow, much appreciated Tony! I was hoping you might be able to help in another way however :)

I don't think they are able to do "full" geometry where I'm getting the work done, they are certain the castor angle is not adjustable on the IS200, and it must be because of course your settings change it. I asked them about castor and KPI off your settings because I figured out they are the things that very few places they can do, and they pretty much confirmed they can't do that stuff.

So...

I'm going to ask them to get the wheel aligned as best they can once that bent bracket is replaced (so at least the camber and toe will be fine) and make the car safe, and them could I bring the car to you please to get it finished off properly?

By the way, you mentioned the tie rod, is that the piece that goes from the wheel towards the back of the arch, with a bend in it? They wanted to replace that item too, but he found out today that is £125+VAT, so he's going to try just doing the bracket first. With the bend in that piece, it's impossible to tell whether it's bent from looking at it!

[chrisis200]

I think it's most likely to be a kerbing too. There's no bodywork damage at the front that's for sure, and underneath there's no signs of any other damage.

The previous owner must be an idiot though, I found a spare tyre in the boot worn down to the bracing on the inside, I thought this was the common Lexus tyre wear problems, but it's obviously down to everything being misaligned on one corner. You'd think he'd have realised something was wrong when his tyre wore down like that after smacking a kerb or whatever he did

Anyway I've had some good news, the bent bracket is only £30, and two hours labour so I'm looking at about 80+VAT.

There is another part the garage wanted to change as a precaution but he checked and that is 125+VAT for that part, so he's going to try just the bracket first.

If it turns out to just be the bracket I'll be quite relieved :)

These sort of costs have put me off repairing my car & I am selling up soon, but in my case the car is probably worth alot less than yours. But I hope you can get it sorted properly and be fully happy with the end result, good luck I know what its like an it can get you down. Hope you get back to enjoying the Lex asap :)

[Steviewevie]

When Tony WIM'd my IS200, there was one part of the adjustment that he told me couldn't be done in a "normal" (not his words) way, but had to be altered by adjusting something else. It was something like adjusting a suspension/steering arm which had a knock-on effect of altering the desired parameter.

I'm guessing that this is the problem your garage has got, they don't realise that they can adjust another item to alter the castor.

I could be totally wrong though !

[Paradroid]

That sounds right to me Stevie, I think they were looking for an obvious way to adjust the castor and couldn't see any way to do it. I was sure it could be done but like you say it's probably not straightforward.

Chris, I know what you mean about costs, the thought did enter my mind as to whether to try and sell on and get a better looked after IS200 (there seems to be loads of late-model sports on autotrader now, typical!), but I was already too deep into spending money on this one - and you always think "after this everything will be perfect" :)

[reganlives]

I think there may be a similar problem to my car as the passenger side front wheel is back a bit in the arch compared to the drivers side. Its not been on my initial list of things to do yet though as the car still needs to get repaired. Once its repaired then will look into getting the suspension checked

[Tony-Bones]

Do you want me to call them for technical support or are you happy with how things are going?

Wow, much appreciated Tony! I was hoping you might be able to help in another way however :)

I don't think they are able to do "full" geometry where I'm getting the work done, they are certain the castor angle is not adjustable on the IS200, and it must be because of course your settings change it. I asked them about castor and KPI off your settings because I figured out they are the things that very few places they can do, and they pretty much confirmed they can't do that stuff.

So...

I'm going to ask them to get the wheel aligned as best they can once that bent bracket is replaced (so at least the camber and toe will be fine) and make the car safe, and them could I bring the car to you please to get it finished off properly?

By the way, you mentioned the tie rod, is that the piece that goes from the wheel towards the back of the arch, with a bend in it? They wanted to replace that item too, but he found out today that is £125+VAT, so he's going to try just doing the bracket first. With the bend in that piece, it's impossible to tell whether it's bent from looking at it!

Yep the Tie-rod is the longitudinal rod the goes from the lower wishbone to the chassis, it's job is to control the castor position that's why i feel it may be bent...... saying that at that cost the bracket is a wise move first.

The KPI, Castor and some other angles on the IS200 are used for diagnostics to triangulate where the bend/s are, most Geo machines can measure these angles but few places use them simply because the information is difficult to analyze.

They are correct in saying the castor's not adjustable (directly)..... To explain, the suspension and it's sub-systems are not built at right angles to each other. When i Math the tyre wear issue with the Lex years ago i found the problem was the low castor position on the corner generating the wear, so the goal was to move the adjustable camber which in turn massively violated the toe which in turn when corrected/moved the castor forward :)

[Paradroid]

I see what you mean, changing the other two is a way of indirectly changing the castor which is not normally adjustable :)

I should find out today what the situation is. My worry is he just changes the bracket and it appears to be alright, then when I get the geometry redone elsewhere it highlights that the tie rod is actually slightly damaged, then it's another round of fixing and geometry :(

But that's the worst case, hopefully it'll just need that bracket doing and all will be well :)

[DJ Wozza]

Like a fast jet over my head

[Tony-Bones]

I see what you mean, changing the other two is a way of indirectly changing the castor which is not normally adjustable :)

I should find out today what the situation is. My worry is he just changes the bracket and it appears to be alright, then when I get the geometry redone elsewhere it highlights that the tie rod is actually slightly damaged, then it's another round of fixing and geometry :(

But that's the worst case, hopefully it'll just need that bracket doing and all will be well :)

Aw i just wish you were near me i could deal with it in 15min!!!!

Proof of the pudding is how it handles after the bracket is replaced.... If she pulls then you need further repairs, if she drives straight but the steering is off centre then the castor has been mended but the toe has been pushed out.

[Paradroid]

Well Tony you were right again!

Garage changed the bracket today, wheel still wasn't in right place. So next he undid the bolt at the end of the tie rod (where it joins the lower arm is it?) and sure enough the wheel snapped back to the correct position. New tie rod hopefully coming tomorrow on special order, he's going to try and let me have the car back tomorrow night.

Can't wait, am really missing it!

[Tony-Bones]

Well Tony you were right again!

Garage changed the bracket today, wheel still wasn't in right place. So next he undid the bolt at the end of the tie rod (where it joins the lower arm is it?) and sure enough the wheel snapped back to the correct position. New tie rod hopefully coming tomorrow on special order, he's going to try and let me have the car back tomorrow night.

Can't wait, am really missing it!

That is good news.... Remember the Geo will definitely need doing again because the camber and toe positions will be gone once the tie rod's fitted.

[Paradroid]

To be honest I'm happy in a way that the arm is being done, it's more expense but at least now I know the car will be spot on.

I know what you mean about the geometry. The garage will be able to sort out the horrendous camber and toe I had after the arm was replaced (caused by Drury Lane trying to align before they realised the lower arm was bent) which I think will make the car safe to drive. I'll try and get the WIM settings done soon after that :)