Central Heating Advice - Please

[Boothby Coggles]

Why is it that as soon as we get a really cold snap the central heating goes kaputt .

My condensing boiler gas boiler has sprung a leak today & we've got a frost forming outside .

The boiler is "only" 7 years old, having been a replacement for the previous condensing boiler which also sprang a leak when it was about 5 or 6 years old.

Does any one have any idea how long such a boiler should last?

[sparkystav]

Surely it should last at least 10years?

[Paradroid]

We have an old boiler that breaks all the time, so I went with cover from British Gas.

At first it was a good deal at about £12 a month, now it's about £17 a month which I'm not as happy about.

But, when they come out, the engineers are excellent, they really fix it quick, whereas in the past when we had independent engineers out they'd just say it's an old knackered boiler and needs replacing, they'd fix it but would faff about with different parts. British Gas just get on with it.

Downside of course is it's costing me about £200 a year but you get an annual check-up and service included, plus the cover if it breaks.

[sparkystav]

We have an old boiler that breaks all the time, so I went with cover from British Gas.

At first it was a good deal at about £12 a month, now it's about £17 a month which I'm not as happy about.

But, when they come out, the engineers are excellent, they really fix it quick, whereas in the past when we had independent engineers out they'd just say it's an old knackered boiler and needs replacing, they'd fix it but would faff about with different parts. British Gas just get on with it.

Downside of course is it's costing me about £200 a year but you get an annual check-up and service included, plus the cover if it breaks.

I had the same problem paradroid.

Started the £12 a month, then £13odd, now £14.50. i rung up, kicked off about it. Asked for the reasoning for putting the price up.

they bleated about energy prices, but the're charging me through my bills for that. and a few other things. but i just said their not offering anything extra for the extra money so i asked for cancellations. They immediately knocked 15% off the price for the year.

job done.

[Paradroid]

I had the same problem paradroid.

Started the £12 a month, then £13odd, now £14.50. i rung up, kicked off about it. Asked for the reasoning for putting the price up.

they bleated about energy prices, but the're charging me through my bills for that. and a few other things. but i just said their not offering anything extra for the extra money so i asked for cancellations. They immediately knocked 15% off the price for the year.

job done.

That's interesting mate cheers! I will have a do at them come renewal time. You're right saying the price of fuel has gone up is no excuse for price rises on cover for your central heating system. They must think we were born yesterday!

[Boothby Coggles]

Surely it should last at least 10years?

Seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that condensing boilers don't last as long as the older type, which could be well over 10 years.

My previous condensing boiler had a corroded heat exchanger which of course caused the water to get in to other parts. The unfortunate thing was that we were away on holiday at the time so the water leakage had plenty of time to cause damage to other parts making the whole thing useless.

They are supposed to be a lot more efficient than the older ones, so cheaper to run. What they don't tell you is that they cost more to buy and probably more to maintain. I've spent over £400 for repairs on this one in the 7 years I've had it.

[GlynnB]

My old Glowworm is over 35 years old now and each year I look at replacing it with a more modern one as I know that it is costing me extra in gas but I then look at the replacement cost and expected life of the new boiler and put it off for another year. I just wish that the government was more upfront about total costs and not just running costs - and its the same with cars and the retrospective tax isn't it?

[Boothby Coggles]

My old Glowworm is over 35 years old now and each year I look at replacing it with a more modern one as I know that it is costing me extra in gas but I then look at the replacement cost and expected life of the new boiler and put it off for another year. I just wish that the government was more upfront about total costs and not just running costs - and its the same with cars and the retrospective tax isn't it?

You might as well hang on to the Glowworm while you can if my experience of condensing boilers is anything to go by - they must have cost me well over £2k in the last 14 or so years. I can't imagine that the extra gas you might have had to pay for would come any where near that

[Boothby Coggles]

I've now got an answer to my original question. Had a plumber in today & he says that a condensing boiler should last 10 to 15 years.

He's never heard :o of Malvern boilers & I shouldn't have had to fork out in the 7 years I've had this one for the repairs it's needed, (about £700).

The heat exchanger has gone (again) and can be replaced but we've decided it's not worth it as we would always be waiting for the next problem. So it's £2.5k for a new boiler & cylinder. Oh Joy

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Why not ask Fargo ( on here ) for a quote, he's good ;)

[Boothby Coggles]

Why not ask Fargo ( on here ) for a quote, he's good ;)

Thanks for that but already committed to the plumber due to pressure from the wife, she always suffers from the cold. Also I think Fargo is Middlesex based which is too far away.

[Fargo]

yep, im farrrr away from you.

i work for the dreaded BG, most manufactures give average lifetime of 8 years so i hear, but with regular servicing and water treatment they last longer.

You say the heat exchanger has gone again, you have to ask why, do you have sludge or scale issues as these are the main reasons, was it your main h/e or hot water one.

Also i would go with a worcester or valiant boiler next time as unfortuantly with boilers you get what you pay for

Cost wise i would expect someoen to charge you approx 3-400 quid for a straight boiler swop (combi for combi).

[Boothby Coggles]

yep, im farrrr away from you.

i work for the dreaded BG, most manufactures give average lifetime of 8 years so i hear, but with regular servicing and water treatment they last longer.

You say the heat exchanger has gone again, you have to ask why, do you have sludge or scale issues as these are the main reasons, was it your main h/e or hot water one.

Also i would go with a worcester or valiant boiler next time as unfortuantly with boilers you get what you pay for

Cost wise i would expect someoen to charge you approx 3-400 quid for a straight boiler swop (combi for combi).

It was the main h/e both times. The plumber has said that it could be down to the hot water cylinder - It is apparently the original one installed in the house when it was built in about 1980. The coil in the cylinder could be letting air in to the system causing holes in the h/e.

As regards the boiler the last 2 we've had were Malvern non-combi condensingn& the new one will be a Worcester.

The plumber did say that the faults we've had since 2001 shouldn't have occurred:

2004 New burner "heat shield"

New 3 way valve

2005 New control board

2007 New ceramic board kit & thermistor (Is this ceramic board kit the same as the heat

shield in 2004?)

Also the usual servicing & system pump.

Fargo, did I read it right as £300-£400 for a straight boiler swap? Seems rather low to my (very) inexperienced eye. Surely the boiler alone would be anything up to £1000, or more for some boilers.

[Bazza]

Fargo, did I read it right as £300-£400 for a straight boiler swap? Seems rather low to my (very) inexperienced eye. Surely the boiler alone would be anything up to £1000, or more for some boilers.

presume that is just the labour charge, excluding the boiler

[B15RUP]

The boiler you require is obviously tied to the size/demand of your property, for example a regular sized 3 bedroomed semi - a Vaillant condensing combi boiler with timeclock etc should cost you in the region of £800 to £1000 pounds (cheaper if you have friends in the trade) and it shouldn't be no more than a days work hence the £300- £400 pounds Fargo is referring to.

[Boothby Coggles]

The boiler you require is obviously tied to the size/demand of your property, for example a regular sized 3 bedroomed semi - a Vaillant condensing combi boiler with timeclock etc should cost you in the region of £800 to £1000 pounds (cheaper if you have friends in the trade) and it shouldn't be no more than a days work hence the £300- £400 pounds Fargo is referring to.

Thanks - We've a 4 bed detached and it will be a new boiler & cylinder. With it being a different make of boiler & the cylinder I imagine that there will be more work than a straightforward "drop in" for the new boiler, e.g. flue in a different position etc. However, from what you guys are saying it does seem that the price we've been quoted is on the heavy side. But my wife's paying for it & she's of a very impatient nature so she's happy to throw money at it .

Thanks for all your help & comments :D

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Does sound very expensive. Earlier this year I had a swap to a condensing boiler ( Worcester Bosch 24RI if I recal ) to feed 13 radiators plus I had a new timer 3 time slots, different for weekday and weekend and water and radiators separate, also a wireless stat. Ten also had a tank fitted in the loft to make it a pressurised system. Change and more from £2k.

[Fargo]

yes, is labour cost i quoted.

change the cylinder if your gona change the boiler, or in fact why not just update to a combi system. or at the least a fully sealed system.

Must admit ive not heard of the coil in the hot water cylinder sucking in air, im just thinking how as the cylinder in always full if water and therefore there is no air to be sucked in. also if theres a hole in the coil then when the boiler is off then surly your get horrible crappy water seeping back to the hot water supply.

Most likely culprit for air intake is the expansion vessel in the loft, or in particular the way the open vent/cold feed is plumbed in.