Is220d Sport Faster Than Is250 Auto?

[javadude]

I had an IS250 auto yesterday as a courtesy car. I was looking forward to the extra power. Has anyone else noticed that the IS220d Sport actually seems faster than the IS250 auto?! I know on paper it has less power and takes longer to 60 but driving both in real life the diesel seems faster. Perhaps its because of the torque? Put your foot down in the IS250 and it just drops a gear, revs, growls and feels guttless. Perhaps its just me...

[Parthiban]

I think you're probably right, I've not driven the IS220d, but have done other diesels and they do "feel" a little quicker because of the extra mid-range punch from the higher torque.

It's also partly due to the fact the petrol will have more linear and progressive power building up to higher revs, whereas the diesel chucks it all in in one big lump and then runs out of breath much quicker...........

[FinLex]

I mentioned this in the "New Model IS 220d" thread only a couple of days ago. Naturally I was told I was "misguided" and talking "absolute rubbish". I'm sure you will, too. SOP on this forum.

[gti1]

I mentioned this in the "New Model IS 220d" thread only a couple of days ago. Naturally I was told I was "misguided" and talking "absolute rubbish". I'm sure you will, too. SOP on this forum.

ooooh I feel this could be the latest thread to watch!!!

[Tel]

Definitely you:did you leave the foot-break on!

Tel

[Tango]

I think you're probably right, I've not driven the IS220d, but have done other diesels and they do "feel" a little quicker because of the extra mid-range punch from the higher torque.

It's also partly due to the fact the petrol will have more linear and progressive power building up to higher revs, whereas the diesel chucks it all in in one big lump and then runs out of breath much quicker...........

Well it doesn't provide the grunt when you need it coming out of junctions! Had me worried a few times with a 220D courtesy car, and before the oilers tell me I have to adapt my driving style, I've previously put 138,000 miles on a turbo diesel saloon.

But yes, ignore the published facts, of course the diesel is a lot quicker than the 250 petrol. There, now do you feel better

[Parthiban]

Well it doesn't provide the grunt when you need it coming out of junctions! Had me worried a few times with a 220D courtesy car, and before the oilers tell me I have to adapt my driving style, I've previously put 138,000 miles on a turbo diesel saloon.

But yes, ignore the published facts, of course the diesel is a lot quicker than the 250 petrol. There, now do you feel better

Lol! Yeah sorry if I went a bit "pro-diesel" for a bit but what I meant was that while the "FEEL" quicker, in reality they aren't.

In a short 5 second overtaking manouvre they probably are quicker but in real terms they're not - it's simply that split second punch that pushes you back in your seat that makes it feel like the car is faster but in reality the petrol is much better.

The problem is that the petrol is so refined in its power delivery that you notice it less - it's more a case of building the speed so effortlessly and then not realising you were doing 120mph (which is quite easily done in the IS250 auto, obviously on unrestricted roads :winky: )

I'd never buy a diesel because I hate the way it's so hard to find the power in the range - one second there's tons of it, the next there isn't any left, but I can totally understand why people think they're quicker than petrols..........

I think that's enough back-tracking for now, but even though it's slow and uneconomical, I'd much rather drive my petrol IS200 than any diesel

[Noel]

So from this discussion what you really need is an IS220D auto.... :) strange Lexus didn't do this already...

My Brother drives a Merc 4X4 (M 320D auto 3lt turbo diesel with 220bhp with 500+nm of torque) when you floor that it pushes you almost into the back seats, from 0 -50 mph it's a 2 tonne monster but progress from there up ain't nothing exciting...

[javadude]

Well it doesn't provide the grunt when you need it coming out of junctions!

Yeah I agree. If you hold the revs 1.5-2k, put it into first, floor it and then change to second when it hits 4k then it takes off pretty quick, but... if u start off with the revs lower or let them drop then it bogs down, you go no where and die....

But yes, ignore the published facts, of course the diesel is a lot quicker than the 250 petrol. There, now do you feel better

I wonder if there are published figures for 50-70 etc somewhere.

So from this discussion what you really need is an IS220D auto....

Hmmmm yeah thats what I wanted. It's a shame they don't do one.

Perhaps I'll just have to get an ISF next then there'll be enough power and torque....

[giorgoXXI]

I had an IS250 auto yesterday as a courtesy car. I was looking forward to the extra power. Has anyone else noticed that the IS220d Sport actually seems faster than the IS250 auto?! I know on paper it has less power and takes longer to 60 but driving both in real life the diesel seems faster. Perhaps its because of the torque? Put your foot down in the IS250 and it just drops a gear, revs, growls and feels guttless. Perhaps its just me...

This is from a Yahoo car review of the IS 220D:

You can either buy an IS thats quick but loud - this one - or opt for the petrol IS250 which isnt loud but nor does it feel particularly quick.

And thats a review of the normal 220D, not the Sport version with the improved gear ratio. So you are not the only one that feels that the 220D is quicker than the 250...

[Tango]

The published figures for the Sport IS220D in comparison to the IS250 Auto show the 250 to be half a second quicker 0-62 mph, and the IS250 Manual to be 0.8 secs quicker. The IS220D is also 7 mph slower on top speed. http://www.lexus.co.uk/range/is/specifications/index.aspx So much for the 'seat of pants' dynometer. Noisier probably does feel quicker.

Final drive ratio and bhp:

Sport 220D - 3.2 and 175 bhp@3,600 rpm

Auto 250 - 3.91 and 204 bhp@6,400 rpm

So even with the much lower ratio of its final drive the IS220D is slower than the IS250 Auto and Manual.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I posted something similar when I first drove the 2 variants nearly 2.5 years ago. Round a twisty track the 220d could edge over a 250 it 'cos of the extra torque. On long straights however the 250 would win due to the extra topspeed/higher revs/more BHP further up the rev band of the petrol as opposed to the narrow power band of the diesel...

The very high gearing of gears 1 and 2 in the diesel make it a bit of a nonsense. Most diesels are like this, but the IS seems to show it more...

I also think that due to the narrow power band of the diesel, the non-sport oiler might be faster coming out of bends where it stays in the "Torquey sweet Spot" a tad longer. From a standing start the sport diesel would be quicker!!

And Tango - yes indeed you do need a new fresh driving style for the 220d, regardless of how many miles you've covered in a diesel previously! I still haven't mastered mine! I too have covered 140000 miles plus in oilers...

[Tango]

I also think that due to the narrow power band of the diesel, the non-sport oiler might be faster coming out of bends where it stays in the "Torquey sweet Spot" a tad longer. From a standing start the sport diesel would be quicker!!

Look at the official figures Jamboo, the 0-62 mph times are from a standing start...!

Presuming everyone thinks the 220D Sport is quicker than the standard 220D, Lexus say otherwise http://www.lexus-europe.com/range/is/speci...ubmodel=IS_220d

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I also think that due to the narrow power band of the diesel, the non-sport oiler might be faster coming out of bends where it stays in the "Torquey sweet Spot" a tad longer. From a standing start the sport diesel would be quicker!!

Look at the official figures Jamboo, the 0-62 mph times are from a standing start...! Just face it the IS220D is not quicker and is inferior to the petrol version in everything but fuel consumption.

What I should have said clearly (and not merely implied) is that on a rolling start or coming out of a bend moving the IS220d will be quicker. IF you get the gearing right the mid range acceleration is awesome - it has the same torqu figure as a Porsche Carrera (295lb's/ft) - no IS250 will catch it and I'm pretty sure of that (though haven't tested them side by side). You are right however - From a standing start the poor gearing in 1st and 2nd in the diesel and narrow delivery lw down (2000-3600RPM) means the 250 will rev higher and deliver the power at 4500+RPM will always be quicker on a sprint...

So round a track it could be perilously close...the offical figures are merely sprint figures....

[Maz]

But i got the IS220d not for Speed..... :whistling: :whistling: hehe :P :P

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Part of the joy of a proper diesel is the sheer driveability. The torque is so useful when overtaking, and actually adds to the enjoyment of driving. I know some people like diesels purely for economy's sake, but there are many people who love the thrill of the torque, the way you zip past lorries on A roads etc...and at the same time get excellent economy...

We say that an Auto 220d might have been good, but not with that massive flat spot. I dread to think what the torque converter would have made of it....

[Robertb]

I suspect you're right- the d has oodles of low down torque, the 250 needs to be doing 4500 rpm for peak torque.

But revving a V6 petrol is a pleasurable experience, something that can be rarely said for a d.

Its taken me a while to get used to the IS250 with the auto- it really doesn't like to change down in normal mode, unless you push the backstop. When you do, it flies! It feels markedly more lively in Sport mode.

[Anees]

Has any IS220D owner had there car remapped yet? BMW, Seat, VW, Audi diesels response well to remapping.

Found an old thread:

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...mp;hl=chippeduk

Anees

[jalfa]

Has any IS220D owner had there car remapped yet? BMW, Seat, VW, Audi diesels response well to remapping.

Found an old thread:

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...mp;hl=chippeduk

Anees

I have not seen any report of it here - but I´m soooo eager to try it.

[Anees]

I wish somebody would! :D I'd bet the remapped IS220D with an extra 35bhp and 65Nm of torque would feel much faster then a IS250 on the road.

[giorgoXXI]

Has any IS220D owner had there car remapped yet? BMW, Seat, VW, Audi diesels response well to remapping.

Found an old thread:

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...mp;hl=chippeduk

Anees

Someone in the spanish Lexus forum has tried this one:

http://www.steinbauer.cc/neu/pdf///STEINBA...AT_130_kW_1.pdf

Really expensive (around £900)... but adds 34 bhp and 80 NM of torque.

Apparently, the car feels less slow under the 2000 rpm mark, and although the car feels faster, you don't feel a massive improvement in the performance. Also for the Sport version, since the ratios for 1st and 2nd gear are quite short, the extra power means the car is a bit less comfortable when taking off.

[Roonaldo]

As an IS220d Sport owner who has driven both IS's many times, I'd prefer an IS220d Sport auto (if they did one) over an IS250 Sport Auto.

Whenever I've driven the IS250 for services/recalls etc. The engine feels really gutless in normal driving conditions, and lets be fair, nobody drives normally at 4500+ rpm.

The overtaking ability is excellent. Theres a stretch on my way home from work, uphill goes into 2 lanes for about 1/2 a mile. 4th gear from about 45mph, it goes like a train!

The IS220d feels faster in normal driving conditions. IMHO

[Oakley IS]

The IS220d feels faster in normal driving conditions. IMHO

of course - thats what more torque feels like.

however, Im the sole owner of a 250 in my town except for my dad, while theres quite a few 220's thanks to the taxes here

- and whenever a 220 tries to race, they fail...

just tested the F last week though - that things got torque for real!

[GaryC]

I mentioned this in the "New Model IS 220d" thread only a couple of days ago. Naturally I was told I was "misguided" and talking "absolute rubbish". I'm sure you will, too. SOP on this forum.

You have to adjust to the driving style of a diesel or petrol. Yes if you are travelling at say 40 mph and floor the petrol auto it doesn't seem to do much. I had a C270 CDI before that and did notice it when I booted the petrol. So you have to use the gears and rev higher. But the sound - ooh it's like comparing champagne to cheap lambrusco when you rev the petrol. A beautiful creamy v6 growl as opposed to a weedy unrefined coarse sound. That's what I'm talking.

The petrol is quicker PERIOD. Get over it. Torque is nonsense.

[GaryC]

Finlex sounds like one of those Passat TDI drivers that says "Hey my TDI has more torque than an M3 so it must be quicker".

Complete tosh.

Ha ha ha !!! :D