Back Skipping Out

[sparkystav]

If you speak to Tony at WIM he highly recommends Drury Lane near Manchester for Geog as well.

Stav

[TigerFish]

Still driving irresponsibly? Funny how I could drive at the same speed in my ZS180, in the wet, and not have any funny moments like this.

Isn't the Rover front wheel drive?? Not really comparable mate. If you are gonna drive the Lex around the same as the MG, I would brace yourself for a few more "moments".

[Paradroid]

Yes it's front wheel drive. One of the better handling ones though thanks to Honda double wishbone suspension :D It's got loads of grip and is very forgiving to drive, even wet roads don't really bother it.

You can tell I rate the ZS but so far the Lexus feels very good indeed. Grip is great, it turns in really well, and the steering is nice and sharp and accurate.

As you say though, I'm new to RWD and am still getting used to it. I don't get the power down as hard or as early as I did in my MG.

Obviously there's a difference between fun tail-out moments and it happening all the time when it's wet though :) I don't drive like a loon, just drive "briskly" when appropriate to do so. I'm sure that when the tyres and geometry are sorted, the Lexus will have more grip than my average driving abilities will ever need!

[Paradroid]

Are these the right geometry settings?

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/knowledge...mp;id=1&c=5

[Andy-R]

@andy-r, yes I see you're in Skem, I'm just down the road in Wigan :)

Was speaking to a mate today from Skem who's found a really good place for tyres in Wigan, so I'm going to go there in the next week or two and get two new tyres on the rear. Just need to wait for pay day really!

Yep happy Skem not.

Pem tyres are good mate ask them about the Geo aswell, they aint got the technology of places like WIM but may be able make it a bit better untill you find somewhere to get it done proper.

[DJ Wozza]

Are these the right geometry settings?

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/knowledge...mp;id=1&c=5

I beieve they are th original settings from Lexus. Speak to Tony @ WIM, he has all the correct data.

[Rikos]

To be honest i think you where just driving like a :tsktsk: !!!!

Only kidding! I have to agree with everyone and you shouldnt have 2 different tyres on opposite sides of the back..... especially one with lot's of grip and one with hardly any!!

I had Nexens and they gripped well but i had to have 2 changed after hitting something in the road which caused them to bubble. I now have Goodyear Eagle F1's on the back which are brilliant. Also, when looking at tyres for the lex you should get the extra load versions.

[Paradroid]

To be honest i think you where just driving like a :tsktsk: !!!!

Only kidding! I have to agree with everyone and you shouldnt have 2 different tyres on opposite sides of the back..... especially one with lot's of grip and one with hardly any!!

Ha ha, you nearly got me going again then!!!!

I think it's going to be a case of asking Tony for the right settings then going to either Manchester or Blackburn to get it done. Looking to get tyres sorted first (end of month), they seem like the top priority, then the geometry done sharpish before the tyres wear unevenly.

@andy-r - thanks for the recommendation, I know of Pem tyres. They messed up the rims on one of my previous cars so I don't go there any more. I have a recommendation for you - "Wheel Quick" just down the road from Pemberton on Enfield St. My mate with a ZS180 has been offered 4x Vredestien Ultracs for something like £360 fitted, which sounds like a deal to me. Apparently the Vredestiens are a wet weather tyre, but are as good as almost anything else in the dry too. Given that I'm a bit worried about the IS in the wet, I think I will give these a go and will let you all know how it goes :)

[Andy-R]

@andy-r - thanks for the recommendation, I know of Pem tyres. They messed up the rims on one of my previous cars so I don't go there any more. I have a recommendation for you - "Wheel Quick" just down the road from Pemberton on Enfield St. My mate with a ZS180 has been offered 4x Vredestien Ultracs for something like £360 fitted, which sounds like a deal to me. Apparently the Vredestiens are a wet weather tyre, but are as good as almost anything else in the dry too. Given that I'm a bit worried about the IS in the wet, I think I will give these a go and will let you all know how it goes :)

No worries matey, have you checked out camskill I got my Falkens for £240 delivered then a tenner a wheel to fit so £280 all in and I really can't complain about them they have been superb wet or dry and quiet on the road aswell, I see where your going with the wet weather tyres tho with the amount of rain we get i'm trading my Lex in for a boat

[Paradroid]

No worries matey, have you checked out camskill I got my Falkens for £240 delivered then a tenner a wheel to fit so £280 all in and I really can't complain about them they have been superb wet or dry and quiet on the road aswell, I see where your going with the wet weather tyres tho with the amount of rain we get i'm trading my Lex in for a boat

£280 for a full set of 4? Hmmm that's pretty good actually, cheaper than the Vredestiens I've been looking at. You got the FK 452's right Andy?

Dorian

[Andy-R]

No worries matey, have you checked out camskill I got my Falkens for £240 delivered then a tenner a wheel to fit so £280 all in and I really can't complain about them they have been superb wet or dry and quiet on the road aswell, I see where your going with the wet weather tyres tho with the amount of rain we get i'm trading my Lex in for a boat

£280 for a full set of 4? Hmmm that's pretty good actually, cheaper than the Vredestiens I've been looking at. You got the FK 452's right Andy?

Dorian

YEP

[84Stoney]

If you have one tyre with substantially more grip than the one on the other end of the axle, not only will it affect the grip and handling, it will pull to one side under acceleration and braking. As well as that, the diameters and therefor circufrances of the wheels will be a few mm different, that can spanner the whole differential as the wheels on either side will rotate at (admittedly only very slightly) different speeds to each other!

In the wet i have never driven anything with more grip than Yokohama Parada Spec II. Although Flacon and Toyo are probably near enough as good.

[Paradroid]

Just thought I'd update this thread as I know people like to hear tyre recommendations.

I put two Vredestein Ultrac tyres on the rear of the car, and moved one of the Semperit tyres so both fronts are of the same type of tyre.

The difference is massive. The back has never stepped out since the Vredesteins were fitted, wet or dry.

For those who don't know this make of tyre they are optimised for wet weather so are pretty much unbeatable in the rain, but they are pretty much as good as anything else in the dry too. They cost me just over £160 fitted for the pair, and I'm really happy with them so far. They are apparently becoming very popular with Civic Type-R drivers, and quite a few of the MG ZS180 drivers I know have gone for the same tyre. The MG owners have noticed a bit more road noise but this isn't an issue on the Lexus! I haven't noticed any noise on mine that's for sure!

I just can't wait till the weekend when another two go on the front. At the moment the front of the car feels a bit iffy but I'm sure it's down to the rubbish Semperit tyres, when the car's got decent tyres all round I've got high hopes for the handling improving as it's been slightly disappointing so far.

Then after that I'd really like to get the geometry done of course to improve things further :)

[DJ Wozza]

new tyres fitted then Geo same day if possible or deffo asap :D

[rhosneigr]

TDI North in Warrington carry out full geometry. I've not used them myself yet but have had a word with the people there and they will set to WIM settings. They are at Aston Ct Kingsland Grange WA1 4SG. Tel 01925289100.

[84Stoney]

when i had a tyre changed on mine the guy and the garage said it doesnt make any difference and that there was no point in changing the other one too

Whoever said this knows nothing about tyres, or cars!

[Rikos]

when i had a tyre changed on mine the guy and the garage said it doesnt make any difference and that there was no point in changing the other one too

Whoever said this knows nothing about tyres, or cars!

I completely agree!!! I just hope that when someone ends up sticking it in a ditch due to this advice, the garage then gets sued and shut down!

[Paradroid]

TDI North in Warrington carry out full geometry. I've not used them myself yet but have had a word with the people there and they will set to WIM settings. They are at Aston Ct Kingsland Grange WA1 4SG. Tel 01925289100.

Oh right, thanks mate that could be very useful.

I'm having to avoid spending any more money on the car at the moment (until I can sell my old one privately) but as soon as that's sorted I'll look into getting the geometry done. Hoping it'll make a big difference as everyone seems really impressed with the change!

[Tony-Bones]

TDI North in Warrington carry out full geometry. I've not used them myself yet but have had a word with the people there and they will set to WIM settings. They are at Aston Ct Kingsland Grange WA1 4SG. Tel 01925289100.

Unfortunately their machine is not up to much.... not even a printout.

This was last year maybe things have changed but it would be wise to ask.

[KnightUnit]

When you have new tyres fitted, they should always be on the back of a car. Period.

You don't mention if your car is Manual or Auto, wether the Traction Control was switched on (normal) or off,

and what speed you were doing or what gear/engine revs. The Semperit Tyre (as stated above are budget a brand)

is possibly the culprit, and with 2 different Tyres on the axle in the wet. I would suggest ultimate grip from the rear

is quite greatly reduced. I would suggest as soon as you can afford to, replace the rears with Falkens or the Nexens

mentioned above.

Also you car may well need the chasis calibrating to the correct positions. It's a long story but basically the IS200

has handling issues/front tyre wear on inside edges, and needs to be set up properly by a specialist to the correct

positions. Do not under any circumstances go to a fast fit type centre and ask them to do the trackig on your car,

as this will be set only to the information supplied by Lexus. The information is wrong. The updated positions were

written by Tony Bones of Wheels-InMotion (WIM) and you car will benifit greatly from a proper set up.

He has done over 300 full geometry set ups on IS200 and does really know what he is talking about.

See here for last weeks meet and further information.

Surely as most of the brakeing is done by the front wheels, its actually safer to have the new tyres on the front where the gripped will be needed if you have to brake hard...

[Steviewevie]

Surely as most of the brakeing is done by the front wheels, its actually safer to have the new tyres on the front where the gripped will be needed if you have to brake hard...

If you're short of grip on the front, then you'll understeer (i.e. go straight on more than turn into the corner). That's potentially not as hard to handle or dangerous as oversteering (where the back steps out) through a lack of grip on the rear. That's why it's recommended to have more grip on the rear if you have two different grip levels.

[KnightUnit]

I was thinking brakeing hard in an emergency in the wet, no grip on the front would be a nightmare.

If I was going round a fast bend and started to understeer, you would be off the road. But with oversteer at least you can steer into it.

Id rather have oversteer which for me is safe and easier to control, and have the braking power there aswell in case of an emergency.

[Andy-R]

PM Anees about where he gets his Geo done (somewhere in Blackburn I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread) as WIM don't really reccomend TDI ;)

[Steviewevie]

I was thinking brakeing hard in an emergency in the wet, no grip on the front would be a nightmare.

If I was going round a fast bend and started to understeer, you would be off the road. But with oversteer at least you can steer into it.

No grip on either axle would be a nightmare, but lower grip on the front than the back should still mean you can brake fine in the wet.

Surely if you just back off the gas when you start understeering the nose will just tuck in, as opposed to having to start opposite-locking to correct oversteer ? Or does that not work on the IS200 ? Haven't had mine long enough to find out yet.

Lower grip on the back would even be more of a nightmare on a RWD car like the IS200, but even on a FWD you should have more grip on the back than the front if there's a disparity.

[Paradroid]

If it helps, I had grip problems at the rear with my weird tyre combination, and changed to a new set of tyres, moving my budgets to the front.

The stability is much improved especially in the wet. I think I'm happier with the set up of more grip at the rear because the back breaking away can catch you out easier than understeer I'd say.

The front of my car is ok even with the budget tyres, but I think the handling of the car will be much better when they are replaced too - this weekend hopefully.