Different Types Of Car Paint

finest1 · April 24, 2008

hi all,

i've really enjoyed and gasped at the great results everyone has been getting using a well structured car cleaning routine.

im not real technically minded and still lost in all the waxes and polishes and the best products.

i read somewhere, not sure if it was on this forum, that there are different types of paint, ie the paints or painting procedure done pre yr2000 is different than post yr 2000 cars? is this true?

most of the cars i have seen here are post 2000.

ok,

i picked up a great gs300 sport mk1, and i want to make it gleam like it once did. although the second owner did garage it and looked after it, it does need some attention. there are lots of swirl marks and chips here and there. paint is metallic paint .the car is 10 yrs old.

my question is regarding products, which ones should i use?

so far ive got a good shampoo, and looking to get a clay product. after that im lost. so many products, so many opinions and reviews!!

questions are:

is it true about paint used before yr 2000 and after?

after i clay my car, what next? and what products to use for max results on metallic paint, very interested in wet look, but i've only seen this on non-metallic paint.

thanks in advance!

keep posting the pics, they really motivate me to do mine!!

this is what it looks like washed, and taken in lower light. when the sun gets to it, swirl city !!

help me make this car look great

thanks

PCIronmike · April 25, 2008

After the clay use a god polish , i.e. Meguiar's , step 2 ,deep crystal polish , this should remove any swirl marks , follow the instructions on the bottle , after that use a good quality Carnauba wax like Collinite 476s or Collinite , Marque D' Ellegance #915 . that should get you a superb shine , after 24 hrs you can add more wax , its up to you , in between you can always just wash your car and use a detailer to keep it looking tip top .

Hope this helps .

If ya get stuck give me a pm and I'll try to sort it .

Regards

Paul.

B)

dgman · April 25, 2008

hi all,
i've really enjoyed and gasped at the great results everyone has been getting using a well structured car cleaning routine.

im not real technically minded and still lost in all the waxes and polishes and the best products.

i read somewhere, not sure if it was on this forum, that there are different types of paint, ie the paints or painting procedure done pre yr2000 is different than post yr 2000 cars? is this true?

most of the cars i have seen here are post 2000.

ok,

i picked up a great gs300 sport mk1, and i want to make it gleam like it once did. although the second owner did garage it and looked after it, it does need some attention. there are lots of swirl marks and chips here and there. paint is metallic paint .the car is 10 yrs old.

my question is regarding products, which ones should i use?

so far ive got a good shampoo, and looking to get a clay product. after that im lost. so many products, so many opinions and reviews!!

questions are:

is it true about paint used before yr 2000 and after?

after i clay my car, what next? and what products to use for max results on metallic paint, very interested in wet look, but i've only seen this on non-metallic paint.

thanks in advance!

keep posting the pics, they really motivate me to do mine!!

this is what it looks like washed, and taken in lower light. when the sun gets to it, swirl city !!

help me make this car look great

thanks

if you want the as new look and be totally rid of the swirl marks you need a random orbital polisher.you can apply polishes by hand but the results are going to be very limited.you see polishes require heat to break down the abrasives held withinand this heat cannot be produced by hand.for a really good introduction to detailing visit autopia,it will help you understand products and there uses.be warned you can really get hooked.

PJ S · April 25, 2008

Cheaters guide: buy and use Bilt Hamber Auto Balm - swirls will vanish after a layer or two.

Proper guide: buy and use Bilt Hamber Auto Balm, along with Auto clay, Auto Wash, sheepskin mitt, RO polisher, Menzerna/3M polishes, and an assortment of microfibre towels, and pads .

Alternatively, forego the polisher, polishes, and pads initially, and employ a local Pro detailer - there's a good few in your area - and learn to look after the car with correct and proper wash/drying technique.

It's one thing to have all the toys - it's quite another to know how to use said toys in a correct manner that minimises causing the marks in the first place.

So, if you wash. clay, dry the car, the Pro can remove the defects, leaving you with a clean slate to maintain thereon in.

I champion the Bilt Hamber stuff on all the forums I frequent, since it IS one brand worth shouting about, and it's 100% British into the bargain. Oh, that and it's priced on the low side for no other reason than there's no marketing BS employed, etc. If this were branded or marketed as Zymöl - you'd pay 20x the £15 BH does!

Collinite too to be fair to them, are thereabouts on price - and it's a good enough product. The only other carnauba wax (BH being a sealant) I like, is Dodo Juice, but again with the Double Wax and now the Supernatural, I feel they're somewhat playing the Zymöl/Swissvax angle now.

Still got a lot of time for them, especially compared to Z and S - but BH is my default go to product, although I wouldn't have any qualms subbing Dodo's Shampoo for the Auto Wash, if I'd run out.

But, this is an interesting fact - in BH Auto Balm, one ingredient used costs 6x the price of T1 carnauba (highest grade) flakes, yet still manages to obliterate them on price, not to mention more product as well, and which should last a long time since a little is all that is required for a nice thin layer.

A very unique product in the industry - and are a first rate company who only put out product when they feel they've made something that's at least as good as the best currently, if not the best itself.

Because they're not a boutique wax, it's no wonder they're relatively unheard of, but I know with my continued recommendation on detailing World, that's changing, and knowing (to a degree) what future products are in development, they'll no longer be ignored or passed over in favour of the established players. Their new Auto Foam is THE best pre-wash (snow) foam there is currently available, but the only downside is you can only benefit from using it with a pressure washer and lance. They could've made a low pressure version, but the cleaning ability wasn't anywhere near as good as they wanted, so they decided to go with high pressure version only. Many another company would've let the low pressure one trade off the back of the high pressure one. So, the company's integrity is another major plus point, in my books.

Sorry for the slight ramble - but it had to be said.

Whichever route and products you choose, get the technique right to minimising swirls, and you'll end up with a lovely looking car.

finest1 · April 25, 2008

great!

thanks for the replies.

im actually trying to get away with rotary polishers etc. i think im happy just to get rid of the light surface scratches and the minimise the swirl marks. reason being is the car needs washing and im after the best finish possible. i was thinking about getting a pro. or even lexus do get rid of the chips etc around the whole car, depending on the price. i saved money as the car was below my budget and i got a great deal. im enjoying driving the thing! i get alot of looks in my area because its not a car you see everyday like BMW's or mercs etc.

having said that i saw an RAC polisher for £20, not sure if that is good as an amatuer.

anyway keep em coming in, planning to make a purchase of products soon. feel free to tell me what you used on your cars, and the ones you didn't like.

many thanks

PJ S · April 26, 2008

Anything polisher-wise you see in Argos, Halfords, etc are a joke, and only fit for buffing the wax/sealant off rather than taking out swirls with a polishing compound.

You're realistically looking at having to part with over the £100 mark on a Meguiar's G220/Porter Cable/UDM (the last two being US import only and 110V requiring a stepdown transformer in order to work on our 240V mains supply).

By the time you add a selection of pads and polishes, you're sitting pretty at £150 ish.

Good investment in the long term of course, but for some, it's easier and better money spent on employing a Pro once a year or so, and maintaining their result with proper technique and products.

I've advised on what to use in my previous reply - spend some time reading and absorbing the info on the site (www.bilthamber.com) and you may agree with me that they're a rather special company among a number of me toos, who promote hype and spin over substance.

Don't go thinking that buying a very expensive wax gets you something special - it most certainly doesn't!

The key is the preparation (90%), the rest (10%, and that's being generous) is the wax/sealant.

So, a very expensive wax on a swirled car will not enhance it any more than a £5 one will.

TigerFish · April 26, 2008

Anything polisher-wise you see in Argos, Halfords, etc are a joke, and only fit for buffing the wax/sealant off rather than taking out swirls with a polishing compound.
You're realistically looking at having to part with over the £100 mark on a Meguiar's G220/Porter Cable/UDM (the last two being US import only and 110V requiring a stepdown transformer in order to work on our 240V mains supply).

Can somebody explain in simple terms what one of these ludicrously expensive random orbit car detailers can do that is different to any other random orbit sander/grinder. When I read the guff on various websites regarding the actual specs of the machines involved, there seems nothing on face value that distinguishes the two. So far I keep looking, but as I cannot find any specifics that prove one way or the other (I don't mean someone just saying something is good, I mean the actual technical specification of the item) I am kinda stuck. I'm not going to waste alot of money on an expensive one, and I'm not going to buy a cheap one incase it buggers up the car, so I end up doing neither

finest1 · April 26, 2008

dear all,

thanks again, and to PJ.

yes i had a look at the BH website. i've bookmarked it for now and will make a purchase decision in a few days.

def agree about polishers, im not very technical and when all the costs mount i'd rather get a pro to do it.

many thanks :D

finest1 · April 26, 2008

hi all, a message to PJ,

reading the forums, after claying, a polish should be used. once happy then a wax. looking at the BH website im confused over the Auto balm. is it a wax or polish or both? in practical terms, if i was the car, dry it, clay it, then auto balm, where does the wax come in. again unless its a product that does both. so once i perform the polish stage, all i do is buff it. am i right?

thanks

PJ S · April 26, 2008

Auto Balm is a sealant, but others who I've turned on to it, have used it on a single stage paint, and it would seem it will remove a bit of the paint.

So, there seems to be a bit of oxidised paint removal to it, and therefore I'd say it is a bit of an AIO - all in one.

The reaction is chemical, not abrasive - so it'll introduce no new marks, and has greater swirl hiding capability than AG SRP.

2 layers of AB should mask all but the most severe scratches, and give a cracking shine to the paintwork.

As you'll have read, it is unique in its protection of bare metal through stonechips, etc and as the image on the site shows, it outlasts the competition by quite some margin.

You'll still benefit from using it over a well prep'd paintwork, as it's that stage where the bulk of the appearance comes from - the LSP (last stage protection/product) provides the finishing touch and locks in the good work you or someone else has done.

Bottom line, there's nothing else I'm aware of at this moment in time, that is like AB, and for one reason or another regarding the company and the products they turn out, is why I talk about them so enthusiastically. If they were average, run-of-the-mill, I'd say nowt, and just use them, throw them away, or switch to something better.

I've not gone through the vast array of what's out there - and there are some other great and very good products too - but because I'm so pleased with having discovered them, and with what they provide me with, I don't have a burning desire to start throwing money around trying something else just for the sake of doing so.

There might well be something now or down the line which usurps BH products (or specific ones) but for the life of me, I don't see it.

Others, like I've said, whom I turned on to BH, have tried various and numerous other brands, and a number of them are seeing exactly what I saw all those months ago - that's vindication enough for me.

As for process:

wash - 2 buckets (shampoo & rinse)

clay - use hose sprayer or spray bottle

quick rewash

dry

balm - buff 2-3 mins after applying, so section at a time, rather than whole panels - especially if warm/sunny. You can apply a bit of pressure when doing this layer. Thinly does it - a little dip/wipe across the paste goes a long way.

leave for 30 mins (probably enough time to do the whole car)

apply 2nd layer as above - use light touch this time.

stand back and admire.

Of course, if you polish with a machine and compounds, you'll do this after the drying stage. Some would go the extra mile and use a 50:50 split of deionised water to IPA (isopropyl alcohol - local chemist/pharmacy) to make sure the paint is absolutely clean, so the sealant (AB or another brand) has the best possible surface with which to bond to.

Do not top with carnauba wax - there's no benefit since AB is not the typical "sterile-looking" sealant, and the carrier oils/etc will probably remove the AB or the carnauba will fail to adhere to the balm, so the time and effort spent is wasted.

Hope that's of interest and use.

PJ S · April 26, 2008

Can somebody explain in simple terms what one of these ludicrously expensive random orbit car detailers can do that is different to any other random orbit sander/grinder. When I read the guff on various websites regarding the actual specs of the machines involved, there seems nothing on face value that distinguishes the two. So far I keep looking, but as I cannot find any specifics that prove one way or the other (I don't mean someone just saying something is good, I mean the actual technical specification of the item) I am kinda stuck. I'm not going to waste alot of money on an expensive one, and I'm not going to buy a cheap one incase it buggers up the car, so I end up doing neither

A cheap one won't bugger up the paint - it'll just fail to provide enough power to work the polishing compounds effectively. In other words, it'd be only so much quicker and better than if you did it by hand.

A decent one - and there are other ones people use (DeWalt/Bosch/etc) that can provide good results - but the ones listed (which are classed as entry level - I use the £300 Cyclo dual head machine, others a Flex or Metabo) are pretty much designed with polishing in mind, rather than sanding.

If you'd like to mention the ones you're referring to, I'd be happy to check the specs, and look at the images, and offer a reason why they might not be best suited.

If they are just fine and dandy, then feel free to work away and get one, and worry not about how much it cost, but how well it does the job you expect or need it to.

finest1 · April 26, 2008

PJ

thanks for a detailed response.

i think the clay bar is value for money compared to the others i have looked at. i want to polish out some of the swirling and light scratches. how about this:

adding some sort of polish especially made for swirls and light scratches and then finish off with the balm which will form part of the wax or seal stage. does that sound sensible?

what lexus or car do you have and how old is it?

thanks again

rishi

:)

PJ S · April 27, 2008

My Lexus is the '03 Honda Accord 2.4 Executive version - a very rare strictly limited edition version, apparently!

Balm is the LSP, so if you're doing swirl removal yourself, then you'll want to look at 3M ultrafina or Menzerna Intensive Polish, and Final Finish along with a suitable combo of pads and machine.

Start off with the least aggressive combo, and see how that performs, before switching to the next firmer pad and/or polish.

Work the polishes to the point of where they are bordering on dry doing 1-2' sq. sections.

Basic motion (and you'll see this on YouTube videos) is overlapping left-right, then up-down at around 1-2" per second.

Might be best for you to test your technique on a scrap panel from a breaker's yard, to get the hang of things, before hitting your own ones.

Lexus paint is softish, so you shouldn't have too much trouble correcting it fairly easily.

A Pro though, would also have a paint thickness gauge in his inventory, so he'd measure around the car to see what depth of clear he has to work with, and note any low areas where there's a chance of compromising the clear by taking any more off.

If you're adamant to doing the correction yourself, a local Pro would be able to offer a paint report for £20-25 normally - which will be a valuable asset for you to be aware of any areas to avoid altogether or just use FF and a soft pad, to remove the lightest marks.

Typically you don't want to remove more than 5µm of clear in any one session, if you can help it, since most people work on the principle of equal 3rds. So, a paintwork measuring 120µm on average, would be considered to have 40µm of clear. The acid test is to compare the door shuts with the exterior, and that should give you the most accurate idea of what you've got to work with.

Be prepared that depending on what's been done to the paint previously (presuming buffed at least once before in its life) you may not be able to achieve full correction, but only 85-95%, but the deeper scratches will be less V shaped, and more rounded edges, which will make them less noticeable, and easier for the likes of AB to fill and mask/reduce further.

Frothey · April 27, 2008

the other thing to bear in mind is that with clays there are differing levels of aggressiveness. with most japanese paints being fairly soft, too aggressive a clay will induce a lot of marring - you might just be able to pic it up in this pic

its the sort of zig-zag mark, and this was on fairly hard BMW paint! The owner also probably didn't use enough lubrication and pressed too hard.

polyclay or the Sonus green clay is a lot more aggressive than the stuff in the Megs kit, and more suited to claying if you aren't going to polish afterwards.

PJ S · April 27, 2008

Good point Frothey, but whilst the Auto clay is aggressive, in the normally meant way when discussing clay bars, it's nothing like the other aggressive bars on the market, as far as marring is concerned.

Here's an example of what claying alone can do for a car:

Click on images for larger option.

Frothey · April 27, 2008

Hi PJS - we frequent the same "world" lol!

people forget (or don't know) that detailing clay is just an abrasive - it doesn't remove swirls by magic! i also wonder whether some clays have a filling ability from the plasticiser - hence why the swirls go, then come back again.

will be trying the BH stuff at some point, a couple of the pro's use it and rate it, but not sure its worth dumping the stuff I already have to use it - like you say 90%+ is in the prep anyway. maybe when i run out of a couple of things....

finest1 · April 27, 2008

thanks guys,

i think its going a bit too crazy now!,

i washed the car yesterday, and i think there is some wax on it as the water was beading, and it did dry off quicker. i only washed it with car shampoo and dried with microfibre. it looked very good (like the pic i posted). this has revealed that, the paint work and condition is still good. i inspected the light scratches and they are very light ( when i lightly rub my finger over it, it feels no different) this leads me to believe that i need products that are not too specialised and not too abrasive.

im going to go for something retail ,whether its maguiars or something else. reason being, is that i have no car detailing experience like most of you, so i cannot judge whether this product is better than the next one. but i feel this will be a good starting ground. i need mild products, and products that were made for the average joe like myself. hopefully i will be more clued up in a years time to decide where i want to take the detailing, if i feel i can get better results. the good thing is that i will be getting the auto clay (BH), and especially if i can get results similar to PJs!

i have also come to terms that i won't be able to eliminate all the swirl marks, but hopefully reduce it, maybe with regular use, reduce it further

all i have to do is figure out how to remove the "wax" that may already be on the car. will claying do it?

thanks very much for all your advice and tips

rishi

Frothey · April 27, 2008

a strong shampoo/traffic film remover will do it (maybe even washing up liquid :whistle:). just make sure the shampoo hasn't got a wax in it!

swirls can be removed with the right techniques, time, or both! in the absence of having used Bilt Hamber's kit, and trying to keep the products "retail", Autoglym Super Resin Polish is excellent at filling swirls, one or two well worked in coats should do the trick. Follow it with something like 3 coats of Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection, leaving 12hrs or so between each coat. use a little Megs Gold Class shampoo when you wash (dont use too much in the bucket) get some decent microfibres and some decent drying towels (NOT the megs one, they're rubbish!) and some quick detailer for wiping over after you've dried the car and you should be able to keep the car looking great. Using the SRP and EGP on the wheels will help them stay easier to clean, and looking great too. Should last you most of the summer.

as an aside, beading doesn't mean theres wax/protection on it, freshly polished (the bodyshop type) paint will bead with no wax. Likewise, a freshly waxed, but dusty, car may not bead well at all.

TigerFish · April 27, 2008

My first stab at taking the car detailing a bit further than just washing involved meguires. I use the gold class stuff. I used their clay bar, the gold class shampoo and the gold class wax. I was pretty happy with the results as a normal run of the mill car owner. I also use the quick detailer spray each weekend after a wash in between the waxing sessions, I think the quick detailer is well worth it in between. I have very minor swirls, which if I'm honest I don't want to ge to the extent of polishing (as I cannot afford a proper polisher at the mo), so I have just ordered some of the Auto Balm stuff to give it a go, at £15 it is cheap enough to give a shot.

TigerFish · April 27, 2008

get some decent microfibres and some decent drying towels (NOT the megs one, they're rubbish!)

What is wrong with the megs ones just out of interest? I have to admit that I use them, and considering up until I got them I would never consider anything other than a chamois, I found them to be great.

Frothey · April 27, 2008

They dont absorb water particularly well compared with most, and they aren't that soft. I use the ones I bought on the wheels. Try a Sonus Der Wunder (For example) and you'll see what i mean.

same as the gold class wax and p21s - they look great, but aren't particularly durable

problem is, without finding the specialist suppliers, its all most can get. the Autoglym Hi-Def wax is getting some decent reviews and should be fairly easy to find....

TigerFish · April 27, 2008

problem is, without finding the specialist suppliers, its all most can get. the autoglym Hi-Def wax is getting some decent reviews and should be fairly easy to find....

True, I got what I did because Halfords is only 5 mins up the road. I am trying to extend the range, but I don't really intend to become a full blown detailer. Although the talk in this thread of getting a pro in to get the top quality result and then just maintain it has made me think a bit. How much would a pro detailing of the paint work cost roughly?

Frothey · April 27, 2008

depends on the detailer - but bank on £250+ on something the size of a GS. beware people offering a "compound" or "mop" for £50!!

you often see people say they had it done for £75 and it looked great - put a properly detailed car and the £75 in bright sunlight and you'll see the difference......

finest1 · April 27, 2008

funny enough, i was looking at the Autoglym stuff, but read on another website that their swirl remover (whatever its called) contains chalk in it and not that very good. maybe its good for more prestige cars where more complex paint system is used. i am using their shampoo though. anyway thats the problem with a thread like this, for someone like me, im still in the same position as i started! everyone has their own opinion. i still havent read comments from someone with a gs300 pre2000, and what they are using.

im still leaning on the BH clay and the Meguiars system, although i found they have a swirl remover and scratch- x. not sure which is better or more suited to me. Autoglym product line is very confusing. mind you a user called robblexx had some great results with the aqua wax.

in terms of microfibre, im using one ive been using in my house for the past year. it costs 99p for 3 and its buffs up brilliantly. not very good for mopping up water, from a rinse say, but it will work well once a good wax is used and the water is less. use the cloths that have 80/20 ratio. the ones that have 70/30 ratio is good for windows, and buffing.

for swirls remover i saw a product by mothers and another from pinnacle. too many products !!!

TigerFish · April 27, 2008

i still havent read comments from someone with a gs300 pre2000, and what they are using.

Erm

My first stab at taking the car detailing a bit further than just washing involved meguires. I use the gold class stuff. I used their clay bar, the gold class shampoo and the gold class wax. I was pretty happy with the results as a normal run of the mill car owner. I also use the quick detailer spray each weekend after a wash in between the waxing sessions, I think the quick detailer is well worth it in between. I have very minor swirls, which if I'm honest I don't want to ge to the extent of polishing (as I cannot afford a proper polisher at the mo), so I have just ordered some of the Auto Balm stuff to give it a go, at £15 it is cheap enough to give a shot.