Why Is The Is 200 A Better Car Than The Old 3-series (e46)?

japthree · April 1, 2008

I haven't driven a 3-series (yet) but anyone who has (the 1998-2005 version) does it drive/handle better than an IS?

The majority of reviews online and in the UK motoring press (Auto Express, Autocar, What Car?, evo, Topgear, car, Parkers, and other mags you can think of - if any?) summed up that the Lexus is better value for money but as for driving/handling the BMW is better.

The same goes for the current 3-series (E90) v Is 250/220d. "Nice try Lexus..., but BMW wins again..."

Please comment solely on the E46 (and not Audi A4, etc) as that is what the IS was created to compete against.

I remember "car" magazine gave a glowing final report to the IS 200 in its Feb 2001 edition.

Can anyone find online reviews where it states the Is is a better driver's car than the E46?

I want to prove my BMW "friends" wrong!

lee_iceman · April 1, 2008

Just have a drive in your mates and let him have a drive in your IS and then compare yourselves ;)

Parthiban · April 1, 2008

Can anyone find online reviews where it states the Is is a better driver's car than the E46?

You won't find that anywhere mate, according to reviews there is no better drivers car than the 3 series, and I think I probably agree............

In terms of use on the road though, the difference is not noticeable and I prefer that the Lexus provides a better balance between luxury and driveability (which is the reason I bought it in the first place!)

maneesh · April 1, 2008

it's not necessarily the handling or road holding that the 3 series beats the IS on, but the steering feel and feedback to the driver. That's one thing that BMWs provide head and shoulders above the competition.

Noel · April 1, 2008

Your IS will last longer....

tHomBleached · April 2, 2008

3 Series is the drivers car, has always been, and always will. sorry!

Take solice in the fact that the IS200 is a car keepers car!

maneesh · April 2, 2008

Here is one review that reckons the IS steering is better than any BMW since 1986

IS200 better than BMW steering review

Anees · April 2, 2008

it's not necessarily the handling or road holding that the 3 series beats the IS on, but the steering feel and feedback to the driver. That's one thing that BMWs provide head and shoulders above the competition.

I was going to say the exact same thing; the steering feel is superb on the BMW e46. I would say that the IS200 steering is lighter and probably sharper but you do feel more in touch with your front wheels through the BMW steering wheel and that encourages confidence.

Obviously you can make your Lexus handle better with various coilover, ARB, chassis braces etc but I don't think you would ever get that same steering feel and feedback; but over a BMW 316 - 320 I'd much rather have the Lexus.

tyrrp · April 2, 2008

I haven't driven a 3-series (yet) but anyone who has (the 1998-2005 version) does it drive/handle better than an IS?
The majority of reviews online and in the UK motoring press (Auto Express, Autocar, What Car?, evo, Topgear, car, Parkers, and other mags you can think of - if any?) summed up that the Lexus is better value for money but as for driving/handling the BMW is better.

The same goes for the current 3-series (E90) v Is 250/220d. "Nice try Lexus..., but BMW wins again..."

Please comment solely on the E46 (and not Audi A4, etc) as that is what the IS was created to compete against.

I remember "car" magazine gave a glowing final report to the IS 200 in its Feb 2001 edition.

Can anyone find online reviews where it states the Is is a better driver's car than the E46?

I want to prove my BMW "friends" wrong!

Right. I am in a good position to comment here. We actually have one of each. I drive a 2001 IS 200 Automatic and my wife drives a 2001 BMW 318 Automatic. They have similar spec other then my IS has half leather and the BMW has all cloth. They also have almost the same size engine other then the IS being 6 cylinder and the BM being a 4 pot.

Firstly on power. The IS has it much quicker off the line but the BM delivers it more evenly all the way up. My wife has nearly put mine into a couple of walls by not expecting the early power compaired to the BM.

Ride. The BM feels smother alright but I actually feel it's to soft much prefere the feel of the IS.

Grip. Yea, it's the BM but not by much.

Practicality. Again the BM is bigger inside and in the boot. We always use hers when you are going anywhere at the weekends that we might end up buying something bigish.

Finish. Again, I have to say that the hard plastic of the IS lets it down here. It has a nicer overall look and the fit is better but the soft touch plastic in the BMW makes it feel a bit more expensive.

Running costs. Well we all know about the bad mpg of the IS. The BM is better but not by a whole lot. However for day to day problems of 7 year old cars the BM is much more troublesome and thus more expensive.

All in all I still think the IS is a better car. If I didn't then her indoors would be driving it and I would be in the BMW. We have thought about changing one of the cars a couple of times and we only ever mention the BM as the one to go no matter which one of us gets the replacement.

One really bad thing I find in teh BMW is with the cruise control. On the IS when you push the SET button you can take your foot off the pedal straight away and the cars sits at the speed you are at. With the BM however if you take your foot off the pedal it slows down a bit and you have to go slightly over the speed you want it to actually set at.

ivanovoitch · April 2, 2008

However for day to day problems of 7 year old cars the BM is much more troublesome and thus more expensive.

And there lies the rub...

I owned a 2002 e46 for ten months. On the surface it was good buy but in reality I ended up spending 2K on repairs (big long list both mechanical & electrical) and then lost another 2.5K when I sold it on after it developed an oil leak from around the water pump.

As a coincidence I bought the Lex ten months ago. Since then I've paid €300 for a full service & €500 on a set of tires. If I sold it tomorrow I reckon it will have depreciated by about €1500. The only problem this car has had is Err3.

Both cars were/are of similar price, age, mileage, condition. Both had a FSH.

I know which I won't be buying again.

(BTW I love Beemers, have owned many and am planning on an e60 once the Lex gets the chop)

japthree · April 2, 2008

http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/Lexus_IS%20200_...est.html?id=265

the reviewer here prefers the Lexus to the BMW:

"However you view the Lexus, from counting beans to racing pulses, it stands out from the crowd. With looks enough to make grown men weep, and the kind of tactile responses that would make a night out with Liz Hurley seem like a date with a floorboard, driving the Lexus IS 200 has to be one of the most rewarding experiences I have encountered in many years."

stuie · April 4, 2008

However for day to day problems of 7 year old cars the BM is much more troublesome and thus more expensive.

And there lies the rub...

I owned a 2002 e46 for ten months. On the surface it was good buy but in reality I ended up spending 2K on repairs (big long list both mechanical & electrical) and then lost another 2.5K when I sold it on after it developed an oil leak from around the water pump.

As a coincidence I bought the Lex ten months ago. Since then I've paid €300 for a full service & €500 on a set of tires. If I sold it tomorrow I reckon it will have depreciated by about €1500. The only problem this car has had is Err3.

Both cars were/are of similar price, age, mileage, condition. Both had a FSH.

I know which I won't be buying again.

(BTW I love Beemers, have owned many and am planning on an e60 once the Lex gets the chop)

So you prefer the lexus so you will be buying a bm next

TigerFish · April 4, 2008

The BM is better but not by a whole lot. However for day to day problems of 7 year old cars the BM is much more troublesome and thus more expensive.

I'm not convinced of that by my own experiences of Lexus and BMW. My prevous car was a 1992 E36 325 Couple. I owned it for nearly 7 years and covered 210,000 miles in it. Over that time (excluding the normal wear and tear service parts) it had a couple of ball joints, a steering rack and that is pretty much it. Parts were cheap as chips unlike the Lexus parts. It was a very cheap car to run indeed from that perspective. I'm assuming the E46 can't have gone that far back in reliability compared to an E36, but maybe I am wrong with that. I could've just been lucky with my E36, but the BMW was an exceptional car to own and drive.

Anees · April 4, 2008

It is nice to get such balanced view points on both cars - on the BMW forum it would definetly be 100% in favour of the BMW.

My mate is a mechanic and he says to me constantly(!) when I bring my "German peice of s**t" as he calls it in for an oil change that Jap cars are much easier to work on and better built from a mechanics point of view. They are built with common sense, where as the German cars he works on seem to be built by designers that don't appreciate making maintenace striaight forward.

He says that a 11 year old German car just would not last anywhere near as well as the equivalent Jap car. He had a look at my Aristo (1997 car) and apart from play in the rear rack that I am getting sorted everything else was great. A similar aged BMW 5 series in all likely hood would have had all sorts of things going on.

The only real reason I got my BMW is because of the engine - it is just in a different league to the Lexus and the rest of the car has now really grown on me; but a fair comparison with an IS200 would be a BMW 318 - 320 in which case I would rather have the lexus.

TigerFish · April 4, 2008

My mate is a mechanic and he says to me constantly(!) when I bring my "German peice of s**t" as he calls it in for an oil change that Jap cars are much easier to work on and better built from a mechanics point of view. They are built with common sense, where as the German cars he works on seem to be built by designers that don't appreciate making maintenace striaight forward.

Funny you should say that, can't comment on an E46, but from an E36 perspective, routine maintenance was a doddle. Oil filter was at the top of the engine bay, airfilter required no tools to change. Take off the top plastic cover of the engine, undo two nuts on each coil pack and the plugs were there. I could do a full service in around 20 minutes. Gs300, have to remove the throttle body to get to the plugs!! Dizzy cap and rotor arm (how quaint ), Oil filter down the side of the engine and spills oil all over the shop, airfilter pretty easy with one nut. Sounds like the germans had the sensible head on that day.

ivanovoitch · April 5, 2008

However for day to day problems of 7 year old cars the BM is much more troublesome and thus more expensive.

And there lies the rub...

I owned a 2002 e46 for ten months. On the surface it was good buy but in reality I ended up spending 2K on repairs (big long list both mechanical & electrical) and then lost another 2.5K when I sold it on after it developed an oil leak from around the water pump.

As a coincidence I bought the Lex ten months ago. Since then I've paid €300 for a full service & €500 on a set of tires. If I sold it tomorrow I reckon it will have depreciated by about €1500. The only problem this car has had is Err3.

Both cars were/are of similar price, age, mileage, condition. Both had a FSH.

I know which I won't be buying again.

(BTW I love Beemers, have owned many and am planning on an e60 once the Lex gets the chop)

So you prefer the lexus so you will be buying a bm next

It's true to say that my IS is a much better car than the singular E46 I owned & despite being smaller, it's on a par with my last e39. As there isn't anything better (for the same money) than the E60 523 it will deffo be the BM next. Given the technological differences between the much newer IS and the now very old E36's & E34's you can't compare them. But leaving aside the Naskil and suspension issues (and not forgetting that they're now Chav specials) you could do a lot worse than have a good one of either as your daily drive.

nickolarup · April 7, 2008

OK, I've owned both cars in the past year also. (in fact 2 x IS)

328i SE e46

IS200SE

IS300 Sportcross

BMW feels good on the road, sporty, hard ride but great feedback from steering, setup very well. However the worst car I've ever owned (had about 20) in terms of faults within 8 mths of owning had chassis tear away from Diff, pulley on engine snap off (both common faults with BMW of that year 2000-2001), window motor pack up, ball joints and bushes on front wear out, wrong springs on back (OK previous guy did this), rad expansion tank split. Also very common cars. I think I was unlucky and they are not all this bad, but think they are over rated and not as reliable as Japanese cars (had a few Audis also and niggly faults with them but not this serious)

Lexus, all round more comfortable/effortless to drive but not as sporty. Slower even though more BHP. Much rarer, unique looks, lots of toys (even though my BMW had lots of extras). Hopefully more reliable..... More expensive on fuel (25-26mpg v 29mpg in BMW).

Nick

However for day to day problems of 7 year old cars the BM is much more troublesome and thus more expensive.

And there lies the rub...

I owned a 2002 e46 for ten months. On the surface it was good buy but in reality I ended up spending 2K on repairs (big long list both mechanical & electrical) and then lost another 2.5K when I sold it on after it developed an oil leak from around the water pump.

As a coincidence I bought the Lex ten months ago. Since then I've paid €300 for a full service & €500 on a set of tires. If I sold it tomorrow I reckon it will have depreciated by about €1500. The only problem this car has had is Err3.

Both cars were/are of similar price, age, mileage, condition. Both had a FSH.

I know which I won't be buying again.

(BTW I love Beemers, have owned many and am planning on an e60 once the Lex gets the chop)

So you prefer the lexus so you will be buying a bm next

It's true to say that my IS is a much better car than the singular E46 I owned & despite being smaller, it's on a par with my last e39. As there isn't anything better (for the same money) than the E60 523 it will deffo be the BM next. Given the technological differences between the much newer IS and the now very old E36's & E34's you can't compare them. But leaving aside the Naskil and suspension issues (and not forgetting that they're now Chav specials) you could do a lot worse than have a good one of either as your daily drive.

japthree · April 8, 2008

Don't people just think Lexus - it's really a Toyota and hence aren't even interested in driving it? Don't knock it till you've tried it.

I was thinking a Lexus is like an apple computer - niche market, small user base, but reliable, a bit different and more expensive than a Windows PC, etc

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/carsearc...;makeName=Lexus

check out the second link for the Sport model - in some places it's better than the E46.

"...Possessing neither of the aforementioned attributes, class-conscious types find it all to easy to dismiss the car before even turning the key. To do so is a big mistake, though. By virtue of its conservative looks and critically acclaimed reliability it appeals mainly to buyers of a sensible disposition - but there's more to the IS200 than meets the eye."

"...the asking price is anything but daylight robbery."

A friend of mine bought the SE spec 2005 model and did he get a deal with the kit added to it before it went out of production.

"Conservatively styled IS200 is a surprisingly good driver's car"

It's hardly conservatively styled though? Maybe it looks Avensis/Accord in places but it STANDS out!

Ross B · April 28, 2008

my dads got the 323 and ive been driving it about since my is broke down and i would says the lexus is easier to drive. His is auto so that could ahve somthing to do with it as i prefer manual but the steering on the 323 although very responsive is a bit heavy compared to the IS and its a bit sluggish as the accelerter is quite stiff.

I would say 323 owns the motorway but running around town id rtaher drive the IS its much more fun to drive

japthree · May 14, 2008

... Curious - but is the IS200/300 better than the current 3-series (E90) in any way? If you've driven both please can you comment?

Always thought the current 3-series "head on" is very IS200 - same sort of headlight shape for instance...?

I'm a layman when it comes to the engines but the IS' is a straight-six and the 320i/d is a 4-cylinder one (as opposed to the E46 old 3- series 320i which was a straight-six) so does this mean the IS' engine is better, smoother, etc?

maneesh · May 14, 2008

... Curious - but is the IS200/300 better than the current 3-series (E90) in any way? If you've driven both please can you comment?
Always thought the current 3-series "head on" is very IS200 - same sort of headlight shape for instance...?

I'm a layman when it comes to the engines but the IS' is a straight-six and the 320i/d is a 4-cylinder one (as opposed to the E46 old 3- series 320i which was a straight-six) so does this mean the IS' engine is better, smoother, etc?

straight six cylinder engines are generally smoother than any other engines in most cars. see below from wikipedia

There are four different forces and moments of vibration that can occur in an engine design: free forces of the first order, free forces of the second order, free moments of the first order, and free moments of the second order. The straight-6, flat-6, and V12 designs have none of these forces or moments of vibration, and hence are the naturally smoothest engine designs. (See the Bosch Automotive Handbook, Sixth Edition, pages 459-463 for details.)

Engines with particular balance advantages include:

Straight-6

Flat-6

Flat-12

V12

Parthiban · May 15, 2008

Interesting, I've always thought that V6s are the smoothest of the lot (just based on cars I've been in) - I actually think straight 6s have a coarser engine sound than V6s.........

tyrrp · May 15, 2008

Interesting, I've always thought that V6s are the smoothest of the lot (just based on cars I've been in) - I actually think straight 6s have a coarser engine sound than V6s.........

It is really the vibration they are refering to here not the engine sound. You can dampen sound easier then vibration.

Jack300 · May 15, 2008

If Lexus tried to take on the 3 series with the is200/300 and we can't really differentaite between the two, then they done a marvelous job. When you think about it, the amount of evolution and fine tuning that must have gone into the 3 series over the years should put it miles ahead. Imagine what the IS would be like with that amount of development...

But for me, I can't be doing with the image of a BMW no matter how good they are.

Cheers

jack

MikeoftheNorth · August 8

On 4/2/2008 at 10:29 AM, Anees said:

I was going to say the exact same thing; the steering feel is superb on the BMW e46. I would say that the IS200 steering is lighter and probably sharper but you do feel more in touch with your front wheels through the BMW steering wheel and that encourages confidence.

Obviously you can make your Lexus handle better with various coilover, ARB, chassis braces etc but I don't think you would ever get that same steering feel and feedback; but over a BMW 316 - 320 I'd much rather have the Lexus.

Chassis braces are less relevant to the lexus than the BMW because of the different suspension. If you read group tests including is300 (same chassis) It fares very well indeed. Road and track, I think citing narrower tires for it only coming 3rd and many indicate that while the BMW handles better at extremes, the IS balance between ride quality and handling is better. Which you'd expect from double wishbones.