Engine Rattle On Cold Start

Kopite1989 · April 11, 2009

what a jerk.

WHO`S A JERK

ashpilot · April 11, 2009

mines an auto so it cant be the clutch!

andrewis200 · April 25, 2009

mines an auto so it cant be the clutch!

Mine has just started the same thing and it's also auto. Will speak to Lexus Hull next week

Will let you know what they say

swamprat96 · April 29, 2009

I've just sent my IS250 back to the dealer for the second time for a rattle on cold start that is intermittent. There's a service bulletin in the US that describes it - EG017-07 Engine - Brief Knock/Rattle On Cold Start Up. However being in Australia I am having a hard time convincing the dealer to do the rectification as of course it has not done it for them! I have sent them the bulletin after subscribing to ALLDATA for it but I think they are shying away from the big job that it is. It involves changing a pulley on the timing belt.
I'm getting really p***ed off at the dealers attitude as they have only just agreed to replace the drivers seat on my third complaint(the usual squeaky seat so well known on this forum). Now it looks like I have another fight on my hands to get this addressed.

The car is relatively high mileage for its age- 60k at just over 2 years old. It does a lot of motorway work.

My question is- is there a way of forcing them to do the job? It is known as intermittent so they may not hear it. But the fault is known and covered by warranty so why not just do it?

Its the GEARBOX...not the engine, had the same thing...now cured

Nope mines an auto- and it was the idler pulley as the bulletin describes

andrewis200 · May 1, 2009

mines an auto so it cant be the clutch!

Mine has just started the same thing and it's also auto. Will speak to Lexus Hull next week

Will let you know what they say

Update

Spoke to Lexus Hull and it goes in next week. They think it's a heat shield and never heard of this problem.

We'll see what they discover

kenfoxy · May 1, 2009

I can't contribute to this thread but it is a fascinating story. Can't wait for the final outcome. However I have a lot of sympathy for you guys with this problem and hope all is well though it seems it may be a long time before you are certain that the problem will not come back.

andrewis200 · May 10, 2009

I can't contribute to this thread but it is a fascinating story. Can't wait for the final outcome. However I have a lot of sympathy for you guys with this problem and hope all is well though it seems it may be a long time before you are certain that the problem will not come back.

My IS250 went in this week to Lexus Hull who replaced the VVTR unit at the top of the engine.

From all the replies on the forum I think this had been the problem so we'll see if it's fixed.

Ode · May 11, 2009

Apparently this seems not only specific to the is250, as my is220d has also played this tune a few times.

I do little kms and i havent gone in for the 1st service yet, and basically ignored it since it happened only 6-7 times in the last year.

I'm wondering if any other 220d owners are experiencing the same issue.

If so, it doesnt seem to be specific to the engine.

Ode · May 11, 2009

Apparently this seems not only specific to the is250, as my is220d has also played this tune a few times.

I do little kms and i havent gone in for the 1st service yet, and basically ignored it since it happened only 6-7 times in the last year.

I'm wondering if any other 220d owners are experiencing the same issue.

If so, it doesnt seem to be specific to the engine.

nicnac · May 14, 2009

Mine goes in to Lexus Belfast on !st june for this job ...will keep you posted.

starkey444 · June 23, 2009

Mine goes in to Lexus Belfast on !st june for this job ...will keep you posted.

Mine has now been in the Reading Dealership for over two weeks having a second rebuild. I believe mine was the first in the UK to be done and I've been told that as a result of sending my faulty part to Japan for analysis, they redesigned it again, which they give as the reason why my problem re-occured after a year. Clearly I'm not impressed with two engine rebuilds before my car is even two years old.

At least the Reading dealership gave me a RX400 Hybrid as a replacement car. Yes its bigger and more powerful, but it is top heavy round corners. Nice for a couple of weeks but I want my IS250 back. Apparently, the engine is back together and will be tested fully tomorrow.

I think I have a good case to have the warranty extended for the engine, I mean, who knows whether any damage has been done and whether there will be any long term issues? After all, I thought it was fixed first time round but a year later the problem re-occured. So I'm not being palmed off until I have an extended warranty. Not sure whether to ask for another full 3 years o nthe engine!!

I'll update once I get my car back later this week.

nicnac · June 23, 2009

Ok ,

Got my car back today after 23 days.Drove it home and all seems well.I read the technician report on what he did and he had to strip the front end and sump off to retime the engine .I inspected the engine myself and I have to say all appears in order from the outside.It seems to me to have been a thorough job.

They also replaced both rear calipers and pads plus the steering rack and reseated the rear screen for a rattle I had there.New alloys were fitted all round .

They also replaced the water pump which apparently had a small leak (I had noticed a small pink stain on the filter housing but had not mentioned it).

They had to wait for this spare to arrive so that is what took the extra 2 weeks.

Initially I can say they have done a very good job and addressed ALL my issues.Oh and they topped up ATF on Auto transmission.

All this was under warrenty.

I will now keep a vigilant eye on the engine for weeps etc over the next few weeks.

well done to Lexus Belfast!!!!....I hope I am not singing too soon!!!!!!

starkey444 · June 24, 2009

Ok ,
Got my car back today after 23 days.Drove it home and all seems well.I read the technician report on what he did and he had to strip the front end and sump off to retime the engine .I inspected the engine myself and I have to say all appears in order from the outside.It seems to me to have been a thorough job.

They also replaced both rear calipers and pads plus the steering rack and reseated the rear screen for a rattle I had there.New Alloys were fitted all round .

They also replaced the water pump which apparently had a small leak (I had noticed a small pink stain on the filter housing but had not mentioned it).

They had to wait for this spare to arrive so that is what took the extra 2 weeks.

Initially I can say they have done a very good job and addressed ALL my issues.Oh and they topped up ATF on Auto transmission.

All this was under warrenty.

I will now keep a vigilant eye on the engine for weeps etc over the next few weeks.

well done to Lexus Belfast!!!!....I hope I am not singing too soon!!!!!!

Hey nicnac, sounds like they've really looked after you well. I get my car back later this week after the second engine rebuild. I'd be interested to see if Lexus Reading bother to change my scuffed alloys too? Just wondering why you needed the steering rack and rear calipers changed? Was there a problem? Is it something I need to worry about? I presume your car is a 2007 model or thereabouts?

nicnac · June 25, 2009

hi Starkey ,

Yes they did a good job for me .My car is June2006 and the steering and brakes were Lexus advisory checks ...they actually told me they needed looking at when I contacted them about the engine.

Checked up on ramps today and all is in order underneat and no leaks.Noticed where they had topped up the auto transmission fluid also the water pump changed.

I initially had some trouble getting them to answer emails but a message to Lexus Uk customer sevice department sorted that out .The Service manager was more than courteous and obiously told the department to keep me sweet.

I am going back to collect the lens from the clock module which i scratched when changing map dvd and intend to throw a crate of beer into the service technician.

when you get your car back get all the info you can to share with others here as I think this problem is more common than than you would think by reading here .

starkey444 · June 25, 2009

Hmmm, found a worrying thread on this problem on the US forums where a number of people have had the problem re-occur just like mine. One guy had it re-occur after 20 months. This poses a serious question about warranty. Mine has re-occured one year after the first fix, luckily I'm still in warranty. But what happens if I get my car back this week and it is fine for 20 months after which it re-occurs (out of warranty), who pays?

I'll be talking to Lexus Reading today about warranty extension. The US Lexus forums also note that they are on the 5th revision of the fix which doesn't inspire confidence that they've actually nailed it yet.

Here's the link (its 31 pages long!!)

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-second-...threads-31.html

nicnac · June 25, 2009

This post mentions latest TSIB in America.Would like to have a look at it TSIB L-SB-0156-08

Anyone have access to this ?????

starkey444 · June 29, 2009

Finally got my IS250 back on Friday after a month in the dealers. Have been driving around over the weekend and all seems fine. No leaks, drives well and most important no rattle on startup. Lets hope it stays that way. Lexus Reading also put a full tank of petrol in and gave a car a decent valet including polishing it. And they're ordering a new set of alloys - I still can't believe Lexus havent cracked the corrosion issue with their rims - they've had this problem since I had my first IS200 nearly 9 years ago!

Anyway, biggest issue I have is about the warranty for the engine rattle. If this really is the 5th iteration of a fix, then I can't be confident the rattle won't return after my IS has run out of warranty. Looks like Lexus GB might be coming up with something on that score - will find out later this week and will post here when I find out.

Ian-Mcr · August 4, 2010

Finally got my IS250 back on Friday after a month in the dealers. Have been driving around over the weekend and all seems fine. No leaks, drives well and most important no rattle on startup. Lets hope it stays that way. Lexus Reading also put a full tank of petrol in and gave a car a decent valet including polishing it. And they're ordering a new set of alloys - I still can't believe Lexus havent cracked the corrosion issue with their rims - they've had this problem since I had my first IS200 nearly 9 years ago!

Anyway, biggest issue I have is about the warranty for the engine rattle. If this really is the 5th iteration of a fix, then I can't be confident the rattle won't return after my IS has run out of warranty. Looks like Lexus GB might be coming up with something on that score - will find out later this week and will post here when I find out.

Ian-Mcr · August 4, 2010

Sorry, to sound dumb. I've just stumbled across this article whilst just browsing the forum.

I take delivery of my 2006 IS250 next week from a Lexus dealer. I noticed the engine rattle on startup on the test drive, after a second the engine sounded really sweet so I just (stupidly) presumed it was because the car has been stood on the forecourt for a while and it was parked uphill. Will this be covered under the Lexus Approved Used Car Warranty?

david gray · March 31, 2014

Hi I have the same engine rattle on start up from cold,not all the time though,sometimes its ok for several days before it rattles,but yesterday it was stood in hot sunshine for about four hours when i came to start it it rattled more aggressive like never before so i decided to investigate on this site,i contacted lexus dealer but he said it was not covered due to been 07 year mileage is 42,000, he just fobbed me off so i asked for price for parts to do my self and they came to at least £1000.00.i think it is not right for us british to loose out against the americans.i will have to do a bit more investigating

regards

dave

david gray · April 13, 2014

Hi All you guys out there.

Just to give you a up date on 250 lexus brief rattle on cold start up,after reading all comments about various reasons for rattle I came to the conclusion that it isn't as serious as you think,one comment was oil draining from camshaft bearing depending where it stopped so I decided to change oil and filter,also I was looking at oil additives and came up with powerenhancer and found some additive called archoil AR9100 advanced friction modifier and oil additive priced at £16.15.just add to engine oil and up to now I have not had engine rattle so fingers crossed hope it does the trick,i will keep you posted.

regards

dave

james250 · June 4, 2014

I had the warranty work carried out on my car almost 5 years ago when it was at 59k miles, Lexus did a top end rebuild. The noise disappeared until few months ago and I keep getting the noise intermittently. Changing oil doesnt make a difference. After fresh oil change a few days later I still heard the noise. Here's a video I have found on youtube:

and it's exactly the same except sometimes the rattle is longer than the one in the video.

Obviously car is now way out of warranty and wondering what I should do. Does anyone know what exactly this noise is and is it damaging anything in the engine?

is200 Newbie · June 4, 2014

I changed my oil at the weekend and only filled it until it was partially on the bottom level of the dip stick. It made the rattle as in the video above, I topped it up and it was gone. It has done this before. On a hot day just like yours after the car had stood for a while.

Its definitely the VVTI valves making the noise - the Mazda 6 does exactly the same on a friends car and Mazda have told him its the reservoir that the valves partially sit in that don't have enough oil in when initially started so for a second it makes the noise until the oils flooded/coated the valves. This makes me believe it is the oil or a blockage due to the type of oil being used being too thin or producing gunk within the engine.

have you just done an oil change? What oil have you used? I use an engine flush on mine which as far as I can tell helps as the noise only seems to happen on mine when its due or around when its due an oil change.

james250 · June 4, 2014

My most recent oil change I did back in mid-april and i have covered about 3.5k miles so far in the oil. After the oil change I experienced the noise about 2 weeks later, then after that its just been coming more intermittently. For the first 2 weeks I didnt get the noise at all, oil level hadn't dropped or anything and oil colour was still good. This is my second DIY oil change. If i recall, the noise started coming back since my first DIY oil change. My most recent oil is Mobil 1 5W30. Before that was 5W30 Castrol Magnatec which gave me strange issues. Wondering if I should maybe do an engine flush before the next oil change? maybe gunk buildup somewhere? engine sounds a bit louder than usual too.

ChumpusRex · June 4, 2014

I find that my rattle is much quieter if the engine is slightly overfilled with oil. About 5 mm above max on the dipstick - works out at about 1/2 litre above the full mark.

However, I had a local garage service it recently; they apparently put 5W30 in but it rattled like crazy after that - severe long rattling every single start.

I put a can of BG MOA (which is some kind of friction modifying oil additive/detergent boost) in and it has completely silenced the engine. No idea whether it was just the overfilling or whether it's done something to the oil, but the engine went from absolutely ridiculous rattling to completely silent, instantly.

My current theory is that if the oil is too thin, then the VVTI can rattle because it can drain out. Engine oil does get thinner with use, as the friction snaps the long-chain molecules - it then reaches a minimum about 10k miles, after that the lighter components of the oil evaporate faster than the heavy ones shear, and the oil thickens up again. If the oil going in is too thin (e.g. a 0W20) then it may mean lots more rattling even when the oil is fresh. The MOA I added was a thick syrupy stuff, so I'm guessing that it thickened up the oil a bit.

The rattling is supposed not to be serious on the IS250 - the valve timing adjuster gear mechanism is controlled by engine oil hydraulic pressure, but when the engine is stopped, the oil can leak back and cause pressure to be lost. Then, when the engine starts the mechanism flails around making a rattling noise until hydraulic pressure comes up, and starts controlling the mechanism. In 2010, Toyota added a spring-loaded locking mechanism that locks the adjuster into "start" position until hydraulic pressure reaches operating level.

However, lexus did recall the IS350 for the same issue, because they had a number of timing adjusters disintegrate during hard acceleration, after fatigue due to excessive rattling.

I wonder whether a slightly thicker oil (e.g. a 10W40) might be worth trying to see if it makes it better, or possibly someone might want to try a thinner oil - e.g. a 0W30 or a 5W20 - and see if it gets worse.