Discs And Pads ? Dealer Or No?

[Teeonethousand]

Hi All

I didn't want to hijack the '20k Service' thread but the issue of discs and Pads is worth a few opinions I think. In the past I have had company cars and often saw a 'new discs and pads' item on the service bill - when it's not your dosh you don't think about it. However - on one occasion they did not have the parts in (merc) - when I took it back next time (several other things needed also) they did not mention it - miracle of miracles they were OK again! Worse - on my wife's car (an Audi at the time) it came back from service with a massive list of stuff supposedly needing doing along with a call from the salesman asking if we had thought of changeing it. The estimate was £1200 - I took it to our village garage and most of what they said was rubbish including the need for discs/pads which the mechanic said was fine. He fixed what really did need doing - total bill £80.00 . I took the whole issue to trading standards but they turned out to be toothless.

Anyway - bottom line is, now it's my money, I will not let anyone do anything other than service to any of my vehicles - I prefer a second opinion and prefer to get it done locally at local rates and even using aftermarket parts (often the same part but with a different stamping). I will take the risk with the warranty.

Same goes for aircon and brake fluid changes - never heard it it being routinely neceassary until someone thought up some additional 'services'

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

Hi All

I didn't want to hijack the '20k Service' thread but the issue of discs and Pads is worth a few opinions I think. In the past I have had company cars and often saw a 'new discs and pads' item on the service bill - when it's not your dosh you don't think about it. However - on one occasion they did not have the parts in (merc) - when I took it back next time (several other things needed also) they did not mention it - miracle of miracles they were OK again! Worse - on my wife's car (an Audi at the time) it came back from service with a massive list of stuff supposedly needing doing along with a call from the salesman asking if we had thought of changeing it. The estimate was £1200 - I took it to our village garage and most of what they said was rubbish including the need for discs/pads which the mechanic said was fine. He fixed what really did need doing - total bill £80.00 . I took the whole issue to trading standards but they turned out to be toothless.

Anyway - bottom line is, now it's my money, I will not let anyone do anything other than service to any of my vehicles - I prefer a second opinion and prefer to get it done locally at local rates and even using aftermarket parts (often the same part but with a different stamping). I will take the risk with the warranty.

Same goes for aircon and brake fluid changes - never heard it it being routinely neceassary until someone thought up some additional 'services'

I hear what your saying, especially about the discs and pads. Time was when the discs were a little worn the garage just skimmed them and they were good for another 30k - now they just want to open a box and bolt new ones on.

I would never worry about my aircon for the first few years, as long as it is used regularly and blows cold I don't think you have a problem. Brake fluid though should be changed every couple of years because it absorbs moisture and becomes more compressible and therefore less effective. I wouldn't take chances on safety.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I've often been sceptical about these things too. The car industry is full of non-sense, there's no doubt. Where else do you go where they charge you £75-125 per hour for labour???? And for what, replacing a bit here, checking a bit there or shoving in some oil...no one actually repairs anything now. It's all replacement.

I remember how I would go with my dad every year to have our Cortina's starter motor re-built by our local mechanic...now that was real motor mechanics!

The minute you walk into most firms dealing in automotive bits and pieces, they treat you like an idiot. I must say that the Lexus dealers are better than most, and will not tinker unless necessary, and given the amount of info on Discs and pads I would get a 2nd opinion before changing them, for say non OEM ones if they are available.

These may be made of slightly harder stuff and might last longer - unless of course the cars/bits are covered under Lexus warranty.

I always thought that brake fluid absorbed moisture and this LED to brake pipe corrosion - that was the primary reason for changing it more often 'cos you could end up with an expensive brake pipe replacement job? Nowadays they use non corroding pipes, so then I suppose the viscosity will change as it attracts moisture and hence brake performance. But over 2 year? Who knows...we need a "Braniac test"...

Better not to mess about with brakes, tyres, steering etc...and the automotive trade knows it - so they play with your conscience...

Whilst main dealers are more expensive, i've also been let down by back street and specialists in the past too. At the main agents, no one really benefits personally as they earn a wage - unless they are bonus'd on targets. At small garages, the gaffer earns the keep, and every penny out of you is one for him personally!!

Best answer - DIY...once it's out of warranty!

[ihpj]

I too find it cynical when (if?) you are told by the Main Dealer that the 'brakes need doing' etc. only after nominal mileage.

apart from the cynical explanation that exists (and to one which i myself subscribe to!) is that the reason they throw up brakes is that it not only prays on our sense of vulnerability (after all who wants a car with dodgy brakes?) is that many folk wont know how to check them with any level of confidence. So with doubt they can extract more money from you for a job which is very UN-labour intensive, but maximises cost to you (which makes more profit for them). But, and bear with me here, another POV is that they with the extended service intervals on many cars, I was explained that they take the view of how worn the pads/discs are today, with when the car is likely to come in for servicing and how worn they will be then. If they estimate (guesstimate?) they will be below min. they will suggest you get them changed - all from a liability POV should it all go horribly wrong.

I know which theory I subscribe to and yes, Lexus do not have extended service intervals (yet) but I thought I'd share that with everyone - believe what you want to ;)

[DarrenJBird]

Well I just had front discs and pads replaced on my 55 plate IS250 SE auto and had 60k on the clock and Lexus Brighton charged me £325 to supply and fit.

I was getting vibration when braking at motorway speeds. I reported it to my dealer, and without even looking at it they ordered the parts and booked it in.

I suppose 60k from a set of discs (had the pads done at 30k) is not to bad, so wasn't to peeved off about it

[Matus]

when braking at motorway speeds. I reported it to my dealer, and without even looking at it they ordered the parts and booked it in.

but in this case they did right thing.

if the discs vibrate, then they are wavy, so you have two options:

1. take them out and lathe them

2. replace them

ad 1 - this will make the discs narrower so they will be more sensitive to get wavy again. And you pay the labour.

So I think the best is to replace. And 60k is OK.

[Tango]

when braking at motorway speeds. I reported it to my dealer, and without even looking at it they ordered the parts and booked it in.

but in this case they did right thing.

if the discs vibrate, then they are wavy, so you have two options:

1. take them out and lathe them

2. replace them

ad 1 - this will make the discs narrower so they will be more sensitive to get wavy again. And you pay the labour.

So I think the best is to replace. And 60k is OK.

I've yet to see a 'warped' or 'wavy' disc...if anyone has one I'd really like to see it.

[chandru]

ya 30k for pads seems bout right..not sure how long discs last on average

[Matus]

I've yet to see a 'warped' or 'wavy' disc...if anyone has one I'd really like to see it.

I've got them on the Tatra. But I am not sure if you wil come here :D

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I've yet to see a 'warped' or 'wavy' disc...if anyone has one I'd really like to see it.

I've got them on the Tatra. But I am not sure if you wil come here :D

Do they still have Tatra's there? Blimey!

Wavey discs = warped discs, and they are rare now. Largely because the discs on most cars are Ventilated (2 discs "bridged" together). But my old E21 316 had this problem in the 80's, and used to be caused by overheating. It's very scary when you throw the anchor out and the helm warbles at a rate of knots...nearly gave me a "brown" moment the first time it happened...

[Rob]

when braking at motorway speeds. I reported it to my dealer, and without even looking at it they ordered the parts and booked it in.

but in this case they did right thing.

if the discs vibrate, then they are wavy, so you have two options:

1. take them out and lathe them

2. replace them

ad 1 - this will make the discs narrower so they will be more sensitive to get wavy again. And you pay the labour.

So I think the best is to replace. And 60k is OK.

I've yet to see a 'warped' or 'wavy' disc...if anyone has one I'd really like to see it.

i had a set that were "warped" i put them on the lathe and squared them using a DTI on the hub - when running the machine u could see the rotors were not straight. a quick pass and they were ok

[adrian71]

if going for aftermarket discs and pads i can recommend the ones made by blueprint, not the cheapest but top quality! got mine from ALS in exeter, they have a jap parts section and are very helpfull :)

[Alan]

Interesting thread. I'm thinking of getting my brakes checked elsewhere before I book the car in for its next service. Kwik Fit do a free check, and also claim that "Once fitted we will replace worn out brake pads & shoes for free for as long as you own the vehicle". Has anyone taken them up on this, or know anyone who has? I'm wondering what kind of pads they use. See http://www.kwik-fit.com/free-brake-check.asp for their blurb.

[Tango]

Interesting thread. I'm thinking of getting my brakes checked elsewhere before I book the car in for its next service. Kwik Fit do a free check, and also claim that "Once fitted we will replace worn out brake pads & shoes for free for as long as you own the vehicle". Has anyone taken them up on this, or know anyone who has? I'm wondering what kind of pads they use. See http://www.kwik-fit.com/free-brake-check.asp for their blurb.

Free pads and/or shoes, so presumably they'll make their money on the discs then . No way would I trust either of my Lexus to Krap-fit....I replaced my IS200 discs with DBA Gold with Mintex pads, and will soon change out the discs and pads on the 250.

[Teeonethousand]

This forum is fantastic - great points from all on the thread and I am now convinced that when the time comes I will do brakes outside of main dealer service.

The QuikFit thing looks interesting - the only catch i could spot is that you have to authorise all work suggested at any subsequent checks - seems fair enough as you can always bail out of the guarantee if you dont like their suggestions - Alan - if you do this please could let us know how it goes?.

Also v interesting in that sometimes the dealer does discs on warranty - first i have heard but good that Lexus dealers may be really different.

On the extended service interval point - my last but one merc - a company car - wore the brake pads to the metal - when I complained that it should have been picked up they said it was not part of the service schedule of the last service the car had. Sounded like crap to me. Also - when I asked why the wear indicators had not come on they said 'they are only fitted to one side of the pad' - again an obvious response was delivered :=) As it happened the UK had run out of the parts and the car was off the road for 5 days. You couldn't make it up.

Again - great forum - i wonder if Lexus UK read it......I would.

[DarrenJBird]

Also v interesting in that sometimes the dealer does discs on warranty - first i have heard but good that Lexus dealers may be really different.

I had discs (and pads) replaced twice under warranty on my old IS200. I never had to pay for anything to do with the brakes for the 3 years and 80k I had it for....great :D

[Alan]

The QuikFit thing looks interesting - the only catch i could spot is that you have to authorise all work suggested at any subsequent checks - seems fair enough as you can always bail out of the guarantee if you dont like their suggestions - Alan - if you do this please could let us know how it goes?.

I don't know if I'm brave enough without someone else doing it first! I may ask for more details the next time I'm in for tyres - my local Kwik Fit's beaten the lowest internet price by £10 a tyre for quite some time now and always do a good job - and they've even offered to repair a puncture (free!) a couple of times. Will post here if I get more details from them in the future.