Battery Failure

[kev dood]

Well I am glad you have sort of got things sorted a little bit for yourself, but it would be good to hear that Lexus are working on solving this issue in the longer term.

I wonder what is different on the alarm system between the RX and other models? Has anyone measured the current drain on say a GS or LS - both large cars. If similar to the RX, then why don;t their batteries flatten as quick?

Regarding the booster pack, I pressume that the cable is a thick one. The fact that its only over a short period of time will help, as the cable will obviously get hot, but not for any length of time. I guess its pulsed output or something too not continuous?

[robroy]

Well I am glad you have sort of got things sorted a little bit for yourself, but it would be good to hear that Lexus are working on solving this issue in the longer term.

I wonder what is different on the alarm system between the RX and other models? Has anyone measured the current drain on say a GS or LS - both large cars. If similar to the RX, then why don;t their batteries flatten as quick?

Regarding the booster pack, I pressume that the cable is a thick one. The fact that its only over a short period of time will help, as the cable will obviously get hot, but not for any length of time. I guess its pulsed output or something too not continuous?

Kev,

Thanks for post yesterday. My voltge , car stored in locked garage with key in has hardly moved... I will keep it in this mode for a month or so to see what I come up with before I contact Lexus... The booster pack sounds great... My fear is that it could blow a fuse somewhere in the line... any ideas on this from anyone would be of great interest.

Also a very good point re flat batteries on GS and LS models ! Can anyone out there tell us what the Battery size (Ah) is on these cars ?

Roy

[vic1]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-Isolator-Swi...VQQcmdZViewItem is what u will need then

i had planned rx400 as next car,[thanks for sharing this imformation] but will not until this problem is resolved.shame lexus offered this model for sale without giving decent Battery life.recent what car also showed problems with is diesel.Will need many owners contacting what car,autoexpress &shaming lexus to sort all problems before releasing car for sale.&offering fix for current owners..This then leaves rx 300,which has high co2 &band g road tax

[jbanfie]

Right,

With this thread in mind, and the fact that my 400h is in for service tomorrow, I called my dealer - Lexus Poole and suggested that I have the 70Ah Battery fitted as discussed above.

Eventually they came back to me, having read this thread saying that Lexus Coventry had replaced the Battery but it was for a RX300, not a 400h.

Furthermore they had spoken to the region manager who said that there was no replacement part with a high Amp Hour rating.

They did agree that 2 weeks life wasn't special, and I pointed out the literature in the USA states don't buy a 400h if you leave your car for a while, but literature in the UK did not. They basically said watch this space.

As my car is not yet 2 years old, I've got some time to wait. However, if I ever leave my car for 2 weeks and it does not start, I will never buy a Lexus again, simple.

Cheers

Jon

[jbanfie]

Also,

I don't know how many issues Lexus are currently managing with 400h's, but it can't be many by this discussion board. If I was in charge of Lexus UK and I read this stuff on here I would do some simple tests (by leaving a car for 2 weeks) and see what happened.

If the Battery does prove to be of insufficient amp hour rating, I would get something done about it and replace the 12V Battery in every 400h I'd sold, and send a letter to every customer who had spent the money on one explaining the research I'd done and why a new Battery was a good idea. Obviously you wouldn't bother with a recall, just switch them at service time.

Then all the customers would say, wow, how ace are Lexus, I feel really great now because someone cares.

But this might cost 50 quid per customer - oh dear.

[Rob]

not looked at this for a bit but yes i am happy with the booster/jumpstart pack - cables are a bit on the short side and the clamp terminals are a bit cheap and ready but they do the job . not a bad deal for about £25.

[rufels]

During a commercial break one night the Black & Decker battery booster "popped" up.

Wonder whether that would be suitable to carry in the boot?

What do you think?

http://www.blackanddecker.co.uk/automotive...hierarchy/1744/

Hi there,

My new Battery is meanwhile performing but I have not been on holiday since. I am thinking of buying this Battery booster which works via the cigarette lighter plug. Being rather scared to try this, I wrote to Lexus UK to get their permission first. I don't want to blow it all up! They have so far not replied - will let everyone know their response - if it comes.

[Rob]

if the normal 12V Battery is only for the electronics and not to actually turn the starter motor then that booster pack should be fine - I wouldnt expect a mail or at least a posotive one from lexus because if they say its ok and then some numpty does something - well u get the picture.......

[lelandv]

Odd that this seems to have come up.

Just a couple of points:

The handbook specifically says that "jumping" the 12v Battery should not be done due to potential damage. That's beside the point, however, I could have sworn that in the specifications there was a very mild trickle charge from the 240v Battery unit to replenish the 12v if the voltage drops below a certain level over time -- I remember reading that somewhere... hmm...

Second point is that when I had my 400h, I had once left it for 27 days due to holiday/travel, returned to it with no problem...

Strange that the original poster's couldn't hold a charge for 15-21 days.

Just musing over this one...

Leland

[rufels]

During a commercial break one night the Black & Decker battery booster "popped" up.

Wonder whether that would be suitable to carry in the boot?

What do you think?

http://www.blackanddecker.co.uk/automotive...hierarchy/1744/

Dear Great Dane,

I took this up with Lexus. My Lexus agency thought it a good idea. I asked them to take it up with Lexus UK Technical Department on my behalf. They in turn also thought it a good idea, thought it should work, but before sanctioning its use, they will be testing it out in their workshop.

Hopefully we are getting somewhere.

I presume once it is shown to work via the cigarette lighter, all RX400h cars should be provided with one.

Thanks for the Booster suggestion!!

Ruth

[kev dood]

IS200 manual also says something about not jumping the car - think its cos it can cause a voltage spike when you connect it all up which can fry the ECU. Should be ok if you connect leads in right order though.

According to manuals you shouldn't put neutral to the Battery -ve either, but to the engine somewhere, cannot remember why.

So, I thought that for the RX400h, the 12V Battery provided some voltage to ecu's etc but the main 280v Battery supplied the starter etc. Therefore, if the 12V Battery goes low, it won't start. I guess the 12V Battery is also used for the alarm etc? But what about if the 280V batter also goes low - how low and how quickly will it need to be/drop before its too low to turn car over?

To me, the key point is that there is too much residual current drain when the car is all locked up and stationary for the current Battery to last for more than 2 wks. Fix is, buy a better Battery (which will give you longer before it goes flat) or Lexus to sort out why only the RX400h has this issue above their other models.

Longer term, I think Lexus should do both!!

[Great Dane]

Dear Great Dane,

I took this up with Lexus. My Lexus agency thought it a good idea. I asked them to take it up with Lexus UK Technical Department on my behalf. They in turn also thought it a good idea, thought it should work, but before sanctioning its use, they will be testing it out in their workshop.

Hopefully we are getting somewhere.

I presume once it is shown to work via the cigarette lighter, all RX400h cars should be provided with one.

Thanks for the Booster suggestion!!

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

Wonder whether you have heard back from Lexus. If they approve of the Black & Decker booster I will buy one immediately. You never know when it happens to you, so better safe than sorry.

Look forward to hearing news from you.

[rufels]

Just reporting back:

Lexus thought the Black & Decker was a good idea, but have not reported on their tests. If they DO finally advise it, I think we should all get a free one. As mentioned previously, they eventually replaced my 12V Battery a couple of months ago. I returned yesterday after 21 days abroad, and the car which had been standing outside, started with no problem. Perhaps I had had a dud Battery all the time. I am still worried about leaving the car for a longer period - will have another chance to test it on my next longer vacation. When I hear from Lexus about the Black & Decker I will share this information. Ruth

[dncm1]

I have a 2007 spec RX400h bought last July. In October I left it at home and went off to Australia for six weeks. Having read this thread I confidently expected that the Battery would be flat as a pancake on my return. I didn't bother to take any precautions (like turning the alarm or auto-lights off).

When I got back, however, it started first turn. So, either I'm lucky, or Lexus have done something to the RX400h to solve this problem.

[MosesMulenga]

Do you remember whether you had your lights set to "auto" or not, as mentioned earlier in this thread?

I have a 2007 spec RX400h bought last July. In October I left it at home and went off to Australia for six weeks. Having read this thread I confidently expected that the battery would be flat as a pancake on my return. I didn't bother to take any precautions (like turning the alarm or auto-lights off).

When I got back, however, it started first turn. So, either I'm lucky, or Lexus have done something to the RX400h to solve this problem.

[dncm1]

Do you remember whether you had your lights set to "auto" or not, as mentioned earlier in this thread?

I have a 2007 spec RX400h bought last July. In October I left it at home and went off to Australia for six weeks. Having read this thread I confidently expected that the battery would be flat as a pancake on my return. I didn't bother to take any precautions (like turning the alarm or auto-lights off).

When I got back, however, it started first turn. So, either I'm lucky, or Lexus have done something to the RX400h to solve this problem.

The lights were set to auto. As I indicated in my earlier post, I didn't bother to take any special precautions to save the Battery as I fully expected it to be flat on my return.

[billygarrett]

Do you remember whether you had your lights set to "auto" or not, as mentioned earlier in this thread?

I have a 2007 spec RX400h bought last July. In October I left it at home and went off to Australia for six weeks. Having read this thread I confidently expected that the battery would be flat as a pancake on my return. I didn't bother to take any precautions (like turning the alarm or auto-lights off).

When I got back, however, it started first turn. So, either I'm lucky, or Lexus have done something to the RX400h to solve this problem.

The lights were set to auto. As I indicated in my earlier post, I didn't bother to take any special precautions to save the Battery as I fully expected it to be flat on my return.

Just to say, I parked my car in my garage for 3 weeks while I went to Florida. When I got back last week it was completely flat!!! Fortunately I had my Battery charger/200amp booster close by and could start it immediately.

Yesterday, I left the key in the ignition switch for approx 1 hour in the "off" position and had a flat Battery on my return, thanks I think to the steeering column tilt solenoid. I had to get a jump start from my friend.

My next mod is to install an alarm to remind me to remove the key entirely as I have done that trick several times and I am fed up of it!!!!!!

I am convinced the Battery should be of the caravan leisure type which ids suitable for low current drain over a longer period.

Regards

Billy

[williz]

Just reporting back:

Lexus thought the Black & Decker was a good idea, but have not reported on their tests. If they DO finally advise it, I think we should all get a free one. As mentioned previously, they eventually replaced my 12V battery a couple of months ago. I returned yesterday after 21 days abroad, and the car which had been standing outside, started with no problem. Perhaps I had had a dud battery all the time. I am still worried about leaving the car for a longer period - will have another chance to test it on my next longer vacation. When I hear from Lexus about the Black & Decker I will share this information. Ruth

thanks to make me aware of the Black&Decker BDV040!

i tested it and it worked great.

it fits perfectly in front of the middle console and is fixed by moving the middle console to the most forward position.

If necessary the unit can be charged while driving by pressing the charge button. The led's show the charging condition.

If the RX400h's 12V Battery is having less then 10V the power up sequence (starting) is not longer possible.

In this case you bring the ignition key to the radio position (in this position all 12V plugs are connected to the 12V system), make sure that all 12V devices are switched off, B&D BDV040 is connected to the 12V plug, switch the B&D on and press the vehicle boost button.

The voltage comes up to about 11,9V. Wait for 2-4 minutes and then turn the ignition key to the starting position and READY comes up.

[BosniaLexus]

We need a resolution to this, without installing black and decker or any other Halford device (see IS250 thread for reasons to buy nothing from Halfords anyway - parking ticket to a member for staying in the shop too long!).

This issue, and no other, has deterred me from looking at the rx400h.

In the Balkans, my old IS200 started every time, and I used to part it outside for weeks on end. In winter i dug it out of snow.

Nothing but nothing says "unreliable" faster than a car that refuses to start for whatever reason.

Its odd to see RS owners providing technical advice to Lexus UK. This should happen in reverse. I hope you keep this topic going, and I suspect here are many, like me, watching it to see h if there is a simple fix or a lexus fix

[billygarrett]

We need a resolution to this, without installing black and decker or any other Halford device (see IS250 thread for reasons to buy nothing from Halfords anyway - parking ticket to a member for staying in the shop too long!).

This issue, and no other, has deterred me from looking at the rx400h.

In the Balkans, my old IS200 started every time, and I used to part it outside for weeks on end. In winter i dug it out of snow.

Nothing but nothing says "unreliable" faster than a car that refuses to start for whatever reason.

Its odd to see RS owners providing technical advice to Lexus UK. This should happen in reverse. I hope you keep this topic going, and I suspect here are many, like me, watching it to see h if there is a simple fix or a lexus fix

I agree entirely! I have found it most embarassing having to explain to frinds and family why my £45000 car keeps letting me downn while there cheap old jalopies don't cause them any problems!!!!

[rufels]

I heard back from Lexus today. The Lexus quality engineers tested the Black and Decker mentioned before, and their verdict is that it is NOT APPROPRIATE as its output is too high. They haev no further suggestions at the moment, but the case is still open and they "are working on it".

I am off on a three week trip tomorrow - maybe it'll start on my return - fingers crossed. Ruth.

Just reporting back:

Lexus thought the Black & Decker was a good idea, but have not reported on their tests. If they DO finally advise it, I think we should all get a free one. As mentioned previously, they eventually replaced my 12V battery a couple of months ago. I returned yesterday after 21 days abroad, and the car which had been standing outside, started with no problem. Perhaps I had had a dud battery all the time. I am still worried about leaving the car for a longer period - will have another chance to test it on my next longer vacation. When I hear from Lexus about the Black & Decker I will share this information. Ruth

thanks to make me aware of the Black&Decker BDV040!

i tested it and it worked great.

it fits perfectly in front of the middle console and is fixed by moving the middle console to the most forward position.

If necessary the unit can be charged while driving by pressing the charge button. The led's show the charging condition.

If the RX400h's 12V Battery is having less then 10V the power up sequence (starting) is not longer possible.

In this case you bring the ignition key to the radio position (in this position all 12V plugs are connected to the 12V system), make sure that all 12V devices are switched off, B&D BDV040 is connected to the 12V plug, switch the B&D on and press the vehicle boost button.

The voltage comes up to about 11,9V. Wait for 2-4 minutes and then turn the ignition key to the starting position and READY comes up.

[kev dood]

Do they mean the 6A output is too high? If so, then they do a BDV030 which is only a 3A output.

Which? Magazine has looked at the BDV030 and thought it was a good idea, also saying that the BDV040 would be required for cars with an engine size larger than something or other.

I can only guess that Lexus did not like the probable constant current output they this would probably have, incase they have other inline components etc connected up to same port, therefore they could get damaged!

[billygarrett]

Do they mean the 6A output is too high? If so, then they do a BDV030 which is only a 3A output.

Which? Magazine has looked at the BDV030 and thought it was a good idea, also saying that the BDV040 would be required for cars with an engine size larger than something or other.

I can only guess that Lexus did not like the probable constant current output they this would probably have, incase they have other inline components etc connected up to same port, therefore they could get damaged!

Sorry. I can't help but point out that the output that matters is the voltage and it should be between 12 and 13.8 volts.

The hybrid electronic system will only take what it needs so it doesn't matter if it is capable of 20 amps or more.

As long as it is high enough to kickstart the electronics,3 amps or 6 amps or more, that is all that matters provided it is approx 12 volts!

And despite the resounding silence to my last posting , I still say it should have a leisure (e.g. caravan) Battery capable of a safe deep discharge!

Regards

Billy

[kev dood]

ummm, not quite true though, as a lot of Battery chargers supply a constant or pulsed current so they can fast charge a Battery. A trickle charge is just a lower current limit.

If you imagine those wopping great fast chargers that can zap your Battery to charge it in 5 mins (some garages have), then thats how they work! Wack a Battery with 5-10-20 Amps or so and it will gain charge pretty quickly!

A Battery is a low impedance so will take whatever current you give it - though the more you give it, the worse it can be for the Battery!

I guess Lexus are saying that if you connect a 6A max supply up to the Battery then it will take all 6A which is possibly not what the lighter section is designed for!???

[GBR134]

I have just read through this thread. I have a RX400H first registered in March 07, which I bought as an ex demonstrator in late 07. I have just returned from a skiing holiday and found the Battery absolutely flat after standing parked for just less than 9 days. The RAC man tipped me off to this forum so I have read the thread prior to contacting Lexus Norwich. In short Lexus Norwich acknowledged that they were familiar with the issue but could do absolutely nothing as it was being investigated by Lexus UK Technical. I contacted Lexus UK Customer Services (01737 367601) and the charming lady there debated for some time whether this was 'an issue' as I had to understand modern cars have such complex requirements these days! I explained after 18 hours on a coach with a wife and two children a further delay of @ 1 1/2 hours to my journey was a real issue. She reluctantly accepted this and said that the only solution she was aware of was a solar trickle charger however she had no idea, which model I could use, or how to connect it. We left it that she would contact the after sales manager at Norwich who would contact me with full details as he "was bound to know".

Initially I don't see how this can be a viable answer as I frequently fly abroad and am extremely unhappy at the thought that I should be buggering about with non standard accessories when I am leaving a car that I paid £36k for with a list price of £42k every time I want to leave it for 8 or more days. This is before we address the problems of multi-storey or underground car parks.

As already pointed out in this thread the Lexus literature says you may have a problem after longer than 30 days - surely this is misrepresentation when they acknowledge, albeit reluctantly, that they are aware the issue can surface after a much shorter period. I await contact from the after sales guy with interest and will pass on anything I learn that may be of interest.