Tracking/alignment/geometry

[Tony-Bones]

Often wim is asked for recommended centres around the UK. We cannot always recommend but we can offer these guidelines.

Various methods are described to encourage you to resolve tyre wear or handling issues, additionally members in forums are keen to advise but often fall victim to the same miss-information, read carefully and stay ahead of 'alignment the big con'

Tracking/Alignment

Is linear, this measurement shows no concern for any other angle. This form of measurement is the most common in the World and the most damaging.

Angles measured 1

Four wheel Alignment

Uses the rear wheels as a scale to centre the steering rack.... then the front toe..... this is better but is assuming the rear is centred.

Angles measured 2

Four wheel Laser Alignment

Same as above.... be wise!

Geometry/Primary

Will image the exact rear centre line to permit a centred steering wheel.. additionally the front and rear camber positions will be measured. This is the most common form of Geometry and i consider this as 'basic'

Angles measured 8

Full Geometry/primary and Secondary

Is absolute but harder to understand. Few places even with the equipment measure the Secondary angles, these include...

Castor

KPI/SJI/SAI

Scrub radius

included angle

TOOT/Ackerman

Delta curve

and so on

Most areas that involve rapid tyre wear or handling issues need to be read from the 'Secondary' data, even more important if the car has been modified or for diagnostics after an accident.

Angles measured 15+

Not easy reading indeed, millions of pounds change hands every day for 'Alignment', a need to be wise could save you £ssss

One more thing to make the 'blood boil'.. The Primary and secondary Geometry has a customer destination?

1: Primary is the 'dumb' customer version

2: Secondary is withheld unless requested and named the 'Technicians version.

Most shops will say you don't need the secondary angles measured because they are not adjustable..... You do need them measured because they are vital to image the castor and KPI's final positions.

The issue with the IS200/300/sc is the camber/castor relationship. Remove this information then it's like clapping with one hand...

Hope this helps

[Gord]

Tony

With all the different methods you have listed, is there any sort of time related to each one to do the job, eg. is 1 method faster than the other ?

What is the time taken to do the job on average ? or is that dependant on what needs doing ? and who is doing it ?

[jonosafc]

mine need doing have a wobel an 50-60 mph

[Rikos]

Get it booked in then mate you wont be disappointed with the result

[Tony-Bones]

Tony

With all the different methods you have listed, is there any sort of time related to each one to do the job, eg. is 1 method faster than the other ?

What is the time taken to do the job on average ? or is that dependant on what needs doing ? and who is doing it ?

Yes... Anything described a "Laser" obtains information in seconds. The information is basic and the duration suits fast-fit very nicely.. Remember though laser is linear so can only measure one axis.

Geometry can be measured in two forms... Primary and-or secondary angle acquisition. Secondary acquisition obtains much more information but is much more difficult for the operator to understand. Sadly the secondary acquisition is often not measured.

I have aggressively attacked fast fit over the years. Ramming home the FACT front wheel alignment is a conn by offering the customer a solution for their woe's using a method only suitable for a horse and cart. In fact it was this need to shout that made me build wim in the first place.

To truly understand the chassis the image needs to be in 3D.... The car is 3D after all! In answer to your question. There is another dimension that persuades some shops what method to use.... We have X,Y,Z or to simplify in human terms

Forward/backward

Left/right

Up/down

And time......... So 4D. Acquisition and time of the entire image combined with the ability to understand the information is a rare combination....

Hope this helps

[Gord]

Tony

With all the different methods you have listed, is there any sort of time related to each one to do the job, eg. is 1 method faster than the other ?

What is the time taken to do the job on average ? or is that dependant on what needs doing ? and who is doing it ?

Yes... Anything described a "Laser" obtains information in seconds. The information is basic and the duration suits fast-fit very nicely.. Remember though laser is linear so can only measure one axis.

Geometry can be measured in two forms... Primary and-or secondary angle acquisition. Secondary acquisition obtains much more information but is much more difficult for the operator to understand. Sadly the secondary acquisition is often not measured.

I have aggressively attacked fast fit over the years. Ramming home the FACT front wheel alignment is a conn by offering the customer a solution for their woe's using a method only suitable for a horse and cart. In fact it was this need to shout that made me build wim in the first place.

To truly understand the chassis the image needs to be in 3D.... The car is 3D after all! In answer to your question. There is another dimension that persuades some shops what method to use.... We have X,Y,Z or to simplify in human terms

Forward/backward

Left/right

Up/down

And time......... So 4D. Acquisition and time of the entire image combined with the ability to understand the information is a rare combination....

Hope this helps

Thanks Tony

Was only thinking that if someone went to have Tracking/alignment/geometry done, how long would one expect to wait for the job to be done ?

I know what you saying about fast fit centres :shutit:

[Anees]

Was only thinking that if someone went to have Tracking/alignment/geometry done, how long would one expect to wait for the job to be done ?

I know what you saying about fast fit centres :shutit:

How longs a peice of string? It does depend on the number of adjustments needed to the car.

When I've had my geometry done by Drury Lane its taken anything from 1hour (few quick adjustments) to almost 4 hours!

You thinking of getting yours checked mate?

[Tony-Bones]

Quote:Gord

Was only thinking that if someone went to have Tracking/alignment/geometry done, how long would one expect to wait for the job to be done ?

I know what you saying about fast fit centres :shutit:

On average a complete measurement and calibration takes 90min. Obviously evolutionary calibration with added talk time takes longer.... But 90min is reasonable.

[Russdx]

i need my rear wheels camber sorted as they r like at a angle how much to put them stright ?

[Tony-Bones]

i need my rear wheels camber sorted as they r like at a angle how much to put them stright ?

I am well aware you have issues..... This meet : http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...t=0&start=0 offers free analysis from tdi and wim..

[Bazza]

when i had my full geometry carried out by Abbey Motorsports it took nearly 4 hours :o

basically down to their insistance in getting it right, and all at a fixed price !

top job carried out :)