Dynos

Adie · March 23, 2007

As Dave Ellen is such an expert on Dynos, how they work and readings etc.. perhaps you can explain to us all the workings and what the graphs mean and how they are calibrated etc etc....

Here is a pic of my latest dyno graph. Perhaps you can explain what it all means:

I also have all my other dyno graphs you can cast your expertise on. Please I would feel honored....

Or you could make your statements of my car not being as it is although the graphs are in front of you to see. Or better still.. continue telling us your figures for your cars (which change considerably) or your products.. BUT YOU HAVE NEVER GIVEN A DYNO SHEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thankyou :)

Mr Morse · March 23, 2007

BUT YOU HAVE NEVER GIVEN A DYNO SHEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yes he has.....

And thank you too

Adie · March 23, 2007

BUT YOU HAVE NEVER GIVEN A DYNO SHEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yes he has.....

And thank you too

and where is that then???

Mr Morse · March 23, 2007

The search function is a wonderful tool....

The dyno graph for my equal length IS300 manifold were posted on this very same forum.....

Dave-Ellen · March 23, 2007

Here you go

think it said 255bhp at .5 bar :winky:

Adie · March 23, 2007

The search function is a wonderful tool....
The dyno graph for my equal length IS300 manifold were posted on this very same forum.....

Can you please explain what it means to us then? The workings / graphs etc etc a

Here you go
think it said 255bhp at .5 bar :winky:

Sorry that is Nico's car. Not the prolex flyer!!!

What does the graph mean then please Dave. Can you please explain how it all works?

Cheers Pal :)

Dave-Ellen · March 23, 2007

What exactly would you need clarifying ?

I do know that exponents of differents dyno's spout forth that theirs work better than others.

Also that for a graph to be accurate I'm told the BHP and Torque curves must cross at 5250 rpm.

For non hub dynos things I';m told such as tyre pressure and camber angle can affect the readings given

Few other things I've read up on but cant remember off hand.

Looking to get my own dyno in 2 years, if Prolex continues to grow as it is currently doing, will dig the pepers out some time soon and refresh my feeble memory.

One thing is important though thats something to do with knowing the difference between tractive torque and the torque an engine produces if you get the two mixed up you can end up with a dyno that can't handle the power you were expecting. Can't remember the exact detail though there was a discussion on here a while ago (2 years maybe)

On the Prolex flyer I'll post the final charts up when she's finally done...still got a few things to do to her....

Hope I've helped

Adie · March 23, 2007

Thank you for that :)

What figures do my curves cross at?

I was just wanting to know what it means as I myself do not know / understand. But after being informed of your thread on your forum that my figures are incorrect due to false dyno readings and that the dyno graph I have posted again here is probably false. Then I was just wondering what is wrong with it, as you seem to have a very good knowledge on such matters. :)

It would be such a shame if my car was not infact the figures shown..

Mr Morse · March 23, 2007

Thank you for saying thank you :D

Adie · March 23, 2007

Thank you for saying thank you :D

No worries and I thankyou too :)

Adie · March 23, 2007

Somebody informed me of the thread on the Prolex forum in which my car was AGAIN slagged off and things were made up. ( No it wasn't Mark) This time that my dyno sheet that I've actually shown (unlike some) was false.

Again I put this down to jealousy. It seems the thread started the same time I posted the graph on LOC. The latest drivel was added after I put the figures in my signature.

SOooo I thought lets see what will happen if I add ' First / Only 1G-FE IS 200 over 400 bhp in UK to my signature, which was this afternoon.... Again straight away more comments.. A coincidence?? I think not.

Dave please understand that the lies you keep saying about me / my car I will find out. So again please STOP running to your forum to post a reply when you can quite easily post here and we can discuss it in a civil manner.

GROW UP AND STOP MAKING UP BULLS++T..

Feathers ruffled? They most certainly are! Please stop for all our sakes ;)

Again Thankyou :)

Dave-Ellen · March 23, 2007

Somebody informed me of the thread on the Prolex forum in which my car was AGAIN slagged off and things were made up. ( No it wasn't Mark) This time that my dyno sheet that I've actually shown (unlike some) was false.
Again I put this down to jealousy. It seems the thread started the same time I posted the graph on LOC. The latest drivel was added after I put the figures in my signature.

SOooo I thought lets see what will happen if I add ' First / Only 1G-FE IS 200 over 400 bhp in UK to my signature, which was this afternoon.... Again straight away more comments.. A coincidence?? I think not.

Dave please understand that the lies you keep saying about me / my car I will find out. So again please STOP running to your forum to post a reply when you can quite easily post here and we can discuss it in a civil manner.

GROW UP AND STOP MAKING UP BULLS++T..

Feathers ruffled? They most certainly are! Please stop for all our sakes ;)

Again Thankyou :)

Firstly I did not see your signature and am not in any way jealous of you or your car.

Some links you may want to read are below.

How to know if a dyno figure is true or false

something on power losses and BHP calculation

something on dynos

something on correction factors

Not sure what you mean by false dyno sheets. Mine are not :winky:

Adie · March 23, 2007

Just a HUGE coincidence then

I never said your dyno readings were false. What I meant is that I post up my power figures on my car. I dont claim to have x amount of power. I post proof which in your eyes is incorrect. :duh: Where as you claim to be running 246 bhp? Other posts 270 bhp? Other posts 280 bhp? Again no dyno graphs.

So untill you know what you are on about or have the common decency to not comment about things that are none of your concern to other people in public, then just accept that you are wrong :)

fact are adrians graph shows that the dyno was not set up properly so figures are inaccurate.

Please explain your facts that my figures are inaccurate.

These started of as a wind up and certainly seem to have worked.

If this is the case then you are lying about your facts... Lets hope you don't find out how much you have wound me up!

Bazza · March 23, 2007

The search function is a wonderful tool....
The dyno graph for my equal length IS300 manifold were posted on this very same forum.....

still waiting to see the final dyno readings

whats the progress on black betty mike ?

:D

IRLRs200 · March 23, 2007

Sorry lads just curious are the figure you's are talking about at the fly or at the wheels? Some good figures all round! time for me to get tuning!

Adie · March 23, 2007

Sorry lads just curious are the figure you's are talking about at the fly or at the wheels? Some good figures all round! time for me to get tuning!

the power graph is at the hubs :)

MacRS200 · March 24, 2007

The point at which the power and torque curves cross should actually be 5252.113122 rpm and that is not exact, as Dave stated before it should be 5250 EXACTLY, sorry Dave but you are wrong.

The "crossing point" of the above long and boring rpm number assumes that the y axis of the plot uses the same horizontal line for the same number attached to both power and torque e.g. 1bhp = 1 lbf/ft. Change that and the point will move.

If anyone is interested the actual formula for power is 2 x Pi x Torque x Revs, so armed with that, how much power is an engine producing, revving at 3000rpm if it gives 170Nm of torque at those revs? Answers on a post card, either HP or Watts, I would expect Dave to be first up here

Interestingly when Watt measured HP he forgot to allow the poor horse any allowance for transmission losses so 1hp is actually more at the horse as opposed to the rope

@ IRLRs200 - The figures are estimated by the Dyno at the fly.

edit - Stand corrected Adie :D

Edited March 24, 2007 by MacRS200

Noel · March 24, 2007

From memory... i don't think any of the lines crossed on the dyno charts i saw at the Irish rolling road day.... does it depend on the equipment used?

MacRS200 · March 24, 2007

From memory... i don't think any of the lines crossed on the dyno charts i saw at the Irish rolling road day.... does it depend on the equipment used?

Depends on the scale being used for Torque and Power, like I said above if the line for say 150 is both power and torque the lines will cross at 5252'ish rpm. If you change that then the cross point will change, or if the scale is majorly different they may not cross at all, if you dyno in metric then forget all the stuff on this thread.

Dave-Ellen · March 24, 2007

Just a HUGE coincidence then
I never said your dyno readings were false. What I meant is that I post up my power figures on my car. I dont claim to have x amount of power. I post proof which in your eyes is incorrect. :duh: Where as you claim to be running 246 bhp? Other posts 270 bhp? Other posts 280 bhp? Again no dyno graphs.

So untill you know what you are on about or have the common decency to not comment about things that are none of your concern to other people in public, then just accept that you are wrong :)

fact are adrians graph shows that the dyno was not set up properly so figures are inaccurate.

Please explain your facts that my figures are inaccurate.

These started of as a wind up and certainly seem to have worked.

If this is the case then you are lying about your facts... Lets hope you don't find out how much you have wound me up!

I did not see your signature and thats a fact. Believe whatever you want to believe.

Did you read the links I put up for you ? I think the first one is pretty conclusive :winky:

On my cars output it has changed, is changing, as I'm trying different things on it which when proven I will offer up for sale.

When the work is done and products ready for sale dyno sheets (before and after) of the varying products will be available for viewing for those who are interested/ customers either in printed form or on my website.

See you at the Pod then :winky:

The point at which the power and torque curves cross should actually be 5252.113122 rpm and that is not exact, as Dave stated before it should be 5250 EXACTLY, sorry Dave but you are wrong.
The "crossing point" of the above long and boring rpm number assumes that the y axis of the plot uses the same horizontal line for the same number attached to both power and torque e.g. 1bhp = 1 lbf/ft. Change that and the point will move.

If anyone is interested the actual formula for power is 2 x Pi x Torque x Revs, so armed with that, how much power is an engine producing, revving at 3000rpm if it gives 170Nm of torque at those revs? Answers on a post card, either HP or Watts, I would expect Dave to be first up here

Interestingly when Watt measured HP he forgot to allow the poor horse any allowance for transmission losses so 1hp is actually more at the horse as opposed to the rope

@ IRLRs200 - The figures are estimated by the Dyno at the fly.

edit - Stand corrected Adie :D

Mac...check the first blink link even :winky:

Adie · March 24, 2007

I have not read the links that you have googled because I could do that myself. What I wanted was for you to explain how it works using your infinite wisdom on such matters...

fact are adrians graph shows that the dyno was not set up properly so figures are inaccurate.

So I again ask what are the facts in your statement above

@ Neil - Thanks for that mate :)

Adie · March 24, 2007

See you at the Pod then :winky:

Yes. Perhaps you can explain to me why you feel the need to ruffle my feathers and wind me up? Or even maybe an apology :)

Dave-Ellen · March 24, 2007

See you at the Pod then :winky:

Yes. Perhaps you can explain to me why you feel the need to ruffle my feathers and wind me up? Or even maybe an apology :)

Not sure about an apology :P cup of tea & a chat would be agreeable

first link confirms what I say on which my comments are based_-_-_ namely if bhp & torque dont cross at 5252 rpm the dyno reading is inaccurate. your graph doesnt. could be that the reported figures are higher in fact...........

MacRS200 · March 24, 2007

Mac...check the first blink link even :winky:

Actually, no Dave but I have now, gives how power is measured but not why the formula is what it is. Perhaps you can explain where the number 5252 comes from.

I don't need derivation from first principals, being an Engineer I can and have done that, just simple terms will do :winky:

marcus · March 24, 2007

Hi all, keep it copmeing guys i like a good read :D as i know f* all about dynos......all i know is is when my swap is done i want 800 BHP oopps said to much. :P