Problem Related To Outside Temperature

[Lole]

Hello every body.

I have a RX400H from 4 months.

It's a fantastic car in my opinion.

All was working perfectly.

But...

But from few days, the hybird system doesn't work very well.

Where I live (in Paris - France ) it started to be cold from few days. Not so cold, but let say the outside temperature is going up to 3 ° C during thre night.

Well, my Lexus stay outside during the night.

In the morning the temperature is around 7° C, and when in the morning I drive it to my work during 8 miles (around 25 minutes) : the electric engine doesn't work well. I mean the batteries starts to be in the green level quickly, and as soon as I touch the pedal, the gaz engine starts. When I stop to a red light, the gaz engine doesn't stop.

Than after few hours in the inside garage of my company, I go to lunch and the electric engines start to work normally.

I spoke with my dealer which was very surprised. He never heard about that. Than he call someone, and told me there is a minimum required temperature for the electric engines. He spoke about 60 °. Was it Fahrenheit or Celsius ? He didn't know. FYI 60° C is equal to 140° F. (he wasn't clear, I think he didn't understand what was explained to him)

But anyway, after few minutes of driving, the gaz engine is hot, and that should work ?

Does any body has the same issue ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

PS : I recently posted the same post on the US forum (I didn't notice one was available for UK), and I had 2 answers saying this issue is related to the catalytic converter temperatue and that in winter the electric system is less efficient. I'm a bit concern by that, I've never been told about it before buying this car..But as I didn't see any post on this subject before mine, I'm wondering if this is true for all, or just for my car...

[Noel]

I think he ment 60 degrees Fahrenheit which is about 15 degrees Celsius..... batteries don't like the cold

[Hybrid Rex]

Yes mine does the same in the colder weather. Regardless of the throttle position the electric motor will not fully take over the drive until the petrol engine is close to its normal operating temperature.

I have assumed this is normal.

[Bazza]

batteries are far more efficient at warmer temperatures than cold

[billygarrett]

Yes mine does the same in the colder weather. Regardless of the throttle position the electric motor will not fully take over the drive until the petrol engine is close to its normal operating temperature.

I have assumed this is normal.

In cold weather my engine starts immediately I turn the key to "start" it to the "ready" position.

I wonder is there a simple way of heating the engine without a major cabin installation?

My 1988 Saab 9000 had an optional mains electrical heating element (like a kettle) which I fitted into the side of the engine block.

It was on a time switch and I always had a preheated engine in the mornings for the last 18 years!

Not any more with my double price Rx 400h :(

[Hybrid Rex]

I wonder is there a simple way of heating the engine without a major cabin installation?

My 1988 Saab 9000 had an optional mains electrical heating element (like a kettle) which I fitted into the side of the engine block.

It was on a time switch and I always had a preheated engine in the mornings for the last 18 years!

Not any more with my double price Rx 400h :(

I think the product you are referring to is called Kenlowe Hot Start but how easy it is to retro-fit to the 400h I don't know.

Basically it is a pump and heating element you install into your cars water system which you plug into your household mains electricity last thing at night. Then as you say you have it set on a timer so that it heats up your water before you start on your journey.

[Rob]

or aftermarket units that use diesel or petrol for engine pre heating

[billygarrett]

I wonder is there a simple way of heating the engine without a major cabin installation?

My 1988 Saab 9000 had an optional mains electrical heating element (like a kettle) which I fitted into the side of the engine block.

It was on a time switch and I always had a preheated engine in the mornings for the last 18 years!

Not any more with my double price Rx 400h :(

I think the product you are referring to is called Kenlowe Hot Start but how easy it is to retro-fit to the 400h I don't know.

Basically it is a pump and heating element you install into your cars water system which you plug into your household mains electricity last thing at night. Then as you say you have it set on a timer so that it heats up your water before you start on your journey.

Thanks. That is exactly what I mean.

I found details on : http://www.kenlowe.com/pre-heaters/cars/diy.html

Does anyone have experince of fotting this on an RX 350 or 400?

If so where and how?!!

Are there any other makes of this type of product?

I wonder is there a simple way of heating the engine without a major cabin installation?

My 1988 Saab 9000 had an optional mains electrical heating element (like a kettle) which I fitted into the side of the engine block.

It was on a time switch and I always had a preheated engine in the mornings for the last 18 years!

Not any more with my double price Rx 400h :(

I think the product you are referring to is called Kenlowe Hot Start but how easy it is to retro-fit to the 400h I don't know.

Basically it is a pump and heating element you install into your cars water system which you plug into your household mains electricity last thing at night. Then as you say you have it set on a timer so that it heats up your water before you start on your journey.

Sorry about typo on last posting !!!

Thanks. That is exactly what I mean.

I found details on : http://www.kenlowe.com/pre-heaters/cars/diy.html

Does anyone have experince of fitting this on an RX 350 or 400?

If so where and how?!!

Are there any other makes of this type of product?

[ColinBarber]

I think Kenlowe are the only people in the UK with this type of product.

I purchased an older version of the product for my GS but never installed it due to lack of space in the engine bay. The newer model is smaller but take care to make sure it will fit before purchasing.

The element in the engine block are really just to stop the coolant freezing and cracking the block. The Kewlowe system brings the coolant up to near normal temperature in about an hour and if you find an installer who really knows what they are doing you can get the interior fans to come on part way through to defrost the windows.

[billygarrett]

I think Kenlowe are the only people in the UK with this type of product.

I purchased an older version of the product for my GS but never installed it due to lack of space in the engine bay. The newer model is smaller but take care to make sure it will fit before purchasing.

The element in the engine block are really just to stop the coolant freezing and cracking the block. The Kewlowe system brings the coolant up to near normal temperature in about an hour and if you find an installer who really knows what they are doing you can get the interior fans to come on part way through to defrost the windows.

Thanks for that.

Will do some research and will also need to check it doesn't affect my warranty.

If all is well I will definitely get one :(

Thank you for your help

Billy

[Lole]

I think Kenlowe are the only people in the UK with this type of product.

I purchased an older version of the product for my GS but never installed it due to lack of space in the engine bay. The newer model is smaller but take care to make sure it will fit before purchasing.

The element in the engine block are really just to stop the coolant freezing and cracking the block. The Kewlowe system brings the coolant up to near normal temperature in about an hour and if you find an installer who really knows what they are doing you can get the interior fans to come on part way through to defrost the windows.

Thanks for that.

Will do some research and will also need to check it doesn't affect my warranty.

If all is well I will definitely get one :(

Thank you for your help

Billy

To all,

Thanks a lot for your inputs.

Knowing this problem is real, and no body from Lexus has never mentioned this fact (at least to me), don't you think we could ask to Lexus to solve it at in own charge, at least during warranty period ?

[Ullevi]

I have now had the RX400h for a full winter and a full summer and what you are descibing,Lole,is a characteristic of the hybrid system.

There is no doubt that fuel economy suffers when temperatures drop,as I have found,like others,that the engine will be used on cold mornings to bring the engine up to temperature,so for quite a few miles in cold weather the ICE will be running when you would normally expect the electric motors to be engaged on their own.

I also note that you have a short drive to work(8 miles)-the engine is barely getting warmed up by the time you arrive at work,so the hybrid is not operating efficiently in these conditions.I have the same problem with my 6 mile drive to work in winter!

[williz]

To all,

Thanks a lot for your inputs.

Knowing this problem is real, and no body from Lexus has never mentioned this fact (at least to me), don't you think we could ask to Lexus to solve it at in own charge, at least during warranty period ?

first i think it is common knowledge that cold engines are using more gas than a warm one, second what should lexus do about this fact? you can install a heater (webasto is working very good) or park your car in a heated garage during winter time. but in any case you will use more energy in the cold part of the year whether it is a hybrid or a simple gas engine driven car.

[billygarrett]

To all,

Thanks a lot for your inputs.

Knowing this problem is real, and no body from Lexus has never mentioned this fact (at least to me), don't you think we could ask to Lexus to solve it at in own charge, at least during warranty period ?

first i think it is common knowledge that cold engines are using more gas than a warm one, second what should lexus do about this fact? you can install a heater (webasto is working very good) or park your car in a heated garage during winter time. but in any case you will use more energy in the cold part of the year whether it is a hybrid or a simple gas engine driven car.

Hi Willi

I agree. I have always found tha to be the case.

Where would you fit that engine heater?

Which model did you get?

Does it draw power from the 12 v Battery?

If so how much? Is there any danger of flattening the Battery when it is running in the garage?

Regards

Billy

[jazz_lives]

......(snipped)......

Where would you fit that engine heater?

Which model did you get?

Does it draw power from the 12 v Battery?

If so how much? Is there any danger of flattening the Battery when it is running in the garage?

Regards

Billy

A couple of points which may only have peripheral importance.

Years ago there was a heater on the market that required a small section, 2 or 3 inches, to be cut out of the bottom radiator hose. The heater was fitted therein with a couple of Jubilee Clips. The power lead from this LED to a three pin socket in a convenient place; somewhere that would be easily noticed as you leapt into the car in the morning whilst still in a sleepy stupour. Mains powered, obviously, but drew only about 250 watts. The heater body was available in various sizes to accomodate varying diameter hoses.

Secondly, in my RX300 I've noticed that petrol consumption goes up when the climate control is in use and working hard. On a hot day it suffers by the equivalence of about three miles per gallon.

[billygarrett]

......(snipped)......

Where would you fit that engine heater?

Which model did you get?

Does it draw power from the 12 v battery?

If so how much? Is there any danger of flattening the battery when it is running in the garage?

Regards

Billy

A couple of points which may only have peripheral importance.

Years ago there was a heater on the market that required a small section, 2 or 3 inches, to be cut out of the bottom radiator hose. The heater was fitted therein with a couple of Jubilee Clips. The power lead from this LED to a three pin socket in a convenient place; somewhere that would be easily noticed as you leapt into the car in the morning whilst still in a sleepy stupour. Mains powered, obviously, but drew only about 250 watts. The heater body was available in various sizes to accomodate varying diameter hoses.

Secondly, in my RX300 I've noticed that petrol consumption goes up when the climate control is in use and working hard. On a hot day it suffers by the equivalence of about three miles per gallon.

Thanks for that.

I can picture what you mean as I had a windscreen washer heater that worked on the same principle in the top rad hose on my Saab 9000. I did wonder wwhy did no one make it. But from what you say they did make it!! I missed seeing one though.

However, I better not cut my hoses just yet as the car is only a month old :)