The Move To Hybrids

[alpappy]

Lexus had a training week for all dealers in Europe a few weeks ago . They stated that they aim to have all models as hybrids within the next few years. I wonder if that means that a diesel auto will not happen at all! The jury is still out on hybrids as to how much fuel they save also with high build and disposal costs can this be the best way forward?

alan

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

That's why Lexus never did an aweful lot with diesels - they just took one out of the Avensis/Rav4/Corolla Verso and shoved it into the Lexus, with one manual box. Surely it wouldn't have cost the earth for a company like Lexus/Toyota to have made an auto...??? The bottom line is that they had to have a diesel to compete and hit some reasonable numbers in europe and created one...by doing the minimum - which is why I have said it before - it's a half hearted attempt!!

I've driven the Hybrids -

Toyota Prius, GS450h and RX400h.

All drive excellent and very very clever. The trump card is that they give you petrol like performance, smoothness, and the economy of a diesel.

Most diesels do that...drive like a petrol and give the economy of a diesel nowadays...

So, think what you will, but the fact that most celebs buy a prius means that they have some cool factor built in.

In reality, you get a car with so much technology, that if something was to go wrong after warranty (5 years for the hybrid eleccy bits) it would be a serious pain in the @rse to fix, and if Honda and Lexus are the only ones flogging hybrids, they had better be good, else no one will touch a used one.

Also, the boot is smaller.

BMW and GM are investing heavily in Fuel cells, which I thought would have been the best solution. No doubt it's all heavily patented.

The final thing is that you can run diesels totally on man made stuff - rape seed vege oil. the electric motors and batteries will always need a charge of some sort, which no doubt will harm the planet (unless you stick a wind turbine/generator on the roof).

So it all puzzles me...

In the meantime start saving your chip fat...

PS for what it's worth - I believe a Diesel Hybrid would have been the best fuel efficient version if they were that serious. I bet someone's gonna tell me it can't be done...

[Matus]

PS for what it's worth - I believe a Diesel Hybrid would have been the best fuel efficient version if they were that serious. I bet someone's gonna tell me it can't be done...

IMHO the best would be the diesel engine working on constant rpm charging the batteries and only electric motor would move the car. I think diesel electric locomotives work like this.

In reality, you get a car with so much technology, that if something was to go wrong after warranty (5 years for the hybrid eleccy bits) it would be a serious pain in the @rse to fix, and if Honda and Lexus are the only ones flogging hybrids, they had better be good, else no one will touch a used one.

exactly. And the car is not-sell-able after couple years. Nobody knows the reliability, the price of new batteries...

Also I'd like to know, how the batteries work when -15 degrees - we all know that standard batteries (eg in mobile phone) have limited use when it's cold.

[maneesh]

but lexus are all about refinement, and i know of no diesel that is as quiet as lexus best petrol engines, hence the push on petrol hybrids, which continue the "waft in silence" theme that lexus is known for.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Then maybe the Hydrogen Fuel Cell is the answer...? We all know Petrol is gonna run out soon...unless they start to make that Sugarbeet stuff...

[Matus]

Then maybe the Hydrogen Fuel Cell is the answer...? We all know Petrol is gonna run out soon...unless they start to make that Sugarbeet stuff...

soon? for next 100 years there is no problem.

[webbbr]

soon? for next 100 years there is no problem.

So just because it won't happen in our life time doesn't mean it won't happen.

I think Hydrogen Fuel will be the way forward.

[Tango]

soon? for next 100 years there is no problem.

So just because it won't happen in our life time doesn't mean it won't happen.

I think Hydrogen Fuel will be the way forward.

Depends on your definition of 'soon'. It will be interesting to see what effect the Chinese economy boom will have on the demand. Oil will be around for many years regardless, but it's getting a lot more difficult (therefore expensive) to extract, so price will probably be the ruling factor on end demand.

The Prius continues to sell really well in the U.S despite the the price of petrol going back to $2 a gallon,,there's still a waiting list to buy (the Prius not the gas).

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Soon means next 50-100 years. that is soon.

[Tango]

Soon means next 50-100 years. that is soon.

Well I should hope we're still not relying on fossil fuels in another 50-100 years, or the car.... :duh: The internal combustion engine should be an antique by then.

[IanCornwall]

In my past life I was dealer service principal for a manufacturer of fork lift trucks

What the hell has that got to do with Lexus Hybrids you ask ??

The forklifts were called STILL, these were made by the massive Linde group, and they were powered by diesel or LPG electric hybrid drives

In these there were no batteries, but a motor (LPG or diesel) driving a generator which through the magic of electronics drove electric motors connected to the drive axles

very simple, very controllable, infinite drive and very very powerful, and when you pressed the go pedal it wasnt connected to the engine but the electronics ramped up the power of the generator / engine to match the load and speed you wanted to go, hugely efficient and very very powerful compared to a normal engine transmission

A 1200 cc volkswagon engine could outperform a 3 litre diesel fork lift with conventional drive set up, and return at least twice the fuel consumption

And when you let off the throttle the power in the motor reversed giving a huge braking effect (like thelma retarders on coaches) that could stop a 20 ton fork lift with no brakes applied in mega short distances, simply by lifting off the throttle, one of the boasts was that if a user could wear out a set of brakes we would repair them for free

In reverse engineering I know that VW fitted the kit to a few Golfs and they vastly outperformed the GTI with twice the economy, they had one draw back in that due to the electric motors weight they handled like crap

I will bet that in the next year or max 2 years VW enter the hybrid power train market with their version, no batteries and direct electric drives as they bring the weight of the motors down to a more reasonable level

Just so you can see the difference between a Lexus Hybrid and a STILL,,, here it is http://www.still.co.uk/3424.0.0.html

[webbbr]

The forklifts were called STILL, these were made by the massive Linde group, and they were powered by diesel or LPG electric hybrid drives

In these there were no batteries, but a motor (LPG or diesel) driving a generator which through the magic of electronics drove electric motors connected to the drive axles

Sounds like the way forward to me.

Remember when mobile phones were like bricks?

Now look at em, small refined, more features..... only a matter of time till they fit them to cars....

I years to come, you will need to be an electrician to work on a car, not a mechanic. LOL

[IanCornwall]

I still have one of the original "Bricks" by Motorola from about 1987, I was offered a load of dosh for it a while back but my son reckons its cooler than the latest micro fone now, and as rare as rocking horse poop

Amazing that then we were all mesmerised by Captain Kirk and his buddy Captain Slog (funny enough I cant remember what Slog looked like) who were flipping open a phone communicator to talk to people the other side of the planet, and having small wire free ear peices as we answer our communicators

Yeah right as if that would be possible :duh:

What we all sometimes forget is that the car has been around a little over a hundred years, and look at the vast jumps in technology we have had in that time in space travel, computers, even the vacuum cleaner isnt quite the same power pack or technology as then

Apart from the car that is, it still has on average 4 wheels, a few seats, rubber tyres and a gearbox, maybe more refined, definately more reliable, but still suck squeeze bang blow technology

Surely someone somewhere could improve on oil burning by now

I have somewhere a cutting from the London Gazette from the 1800's where they were moaning about pollution caused by horses, they prophesised that unless something was done about the horse *******, that London would be 4 foot deep in the stuff in 25 years,,, their version of global warming ????

[Tango]

I still have one of the original "Bricks" by Motorola from about 1987, I was offered a load of dosh for it a while back but my son reckons its cooler than the latest micro fone now, and as rare as rocking horse poop

I had one of the original Motorolas from then :D ..size of a house brick with a fixed 'rubber duck' aerial... never had a coat with a pocket big enough to put it in, but it was very well made so I'm not surprised you still have one.

Re. alternatives to fossil fuels, hydrogen is the way to go in the immediate future and there's already an alliance between a British Oil Company and GE to pursue that objective...though some of the conspiracy theorists will no doubt have their own thoughts on that

[IanCornwall]

we had Hydrogen fuelled cars in NATO around 1979

standard type engines running Hydrogen on a similar to LPG injection set up

They needed a minimum of three radiators to keep the damn things cool though, but this was down to the use of standard engines not designed for that much heat transfer

The problem is you still have to generate the electricity to make the Hydrogen, unless its nuclear glow in the dark electricity it is gas oil or coal dirty energy which sort of defeats the object of the fuel

Hydrogen fuel cells are here, they work, they are reliable, they are massively expensive, but this is down to the very very minute numbers made

I bought my first video in Germany in 1978 for 2,400 Deutsche Marks ( about £600 ) and my first computer a Vic20 (jeesh showing my age) for about £250

Now 28 years later look what you can buy for that money, simply because of massive production advances and bulk manufacturing