Blue/white Smoke Cold Start -- Help!

Felix · May 9, 2006

Hi Guys,

I imported a 1998 Harrier 3.0 last week, no service history; it has done 58K (miles). The car drives well.

For two days, it blows quite bit white/blue smoke in the morning. Smoke lasts 1 and half mins, and then nice steam comes out.

No smoke when driving around.

I have booked a 60K service in my local dealer, but I want to know what is the problem?

Any one could help???

Many thanks

Felix

chips229 · May 9, 2006

Hi and Welcome to the LOC :)

Thats a fair bit of smoke from the picture you posted.If thats starting the engine up from cold id say its the valve stem rubbers that are worn,when you switch the engine off and leave it over time,say overnight all the engine oil is running down the valve stems on to the piston rings,then when you start the engine up for the first time thats the oil burning off the pistons giving you the smoke.Id keep a eye on the engine oil level in the morning before you start it,just to get a feel for how much oil it is using..

Replacing the valve stem rubbers should fix the problem,at a guess id say it would cost a couple of hundred quid tops for a garage to replace the seals...

Keep a eye on the oil level until you have it fixed ;)

Let use know how you get on regards to having it fix..

Good Luck

Chips.

norkep · May 9, 2006

Mine does something similar but not as bad as yours though based on the picc, on mine, it's the valve collets that have gone.

Takes a few minutes for any white/blue mist to disappear and then nothing after this, but mostly in the cold rather than in warm weather

BR

Paul

Felix · May 10, 2006

Many thanks for the replays guys!

I thought the same thing, so I have called another 2 dealers to see how much to replace the seals, guess what, they said it is 2 days work, so we are taking about £90 x 16 hours = 1440.

As I said I have booked a 60K service on Friday, I will let them come with some suggestions about the problem. See what they say.

I will keep you guys updated.

Felix

P.S. you don’t think it is the rings, do you?

chips229 · May 10, 2006

You could have a compression test done on the engine,that way you should tell if its the rings,but id say its the valve stem seals..

Sounds like alot of money to me £1440,try a few garages for quotes.

Felix · May 11, 2006

Does anyone know any places good around Birmingham area which I can trust?

I did have a quote for £700 from a "cowboy", I just did not like the way he talks.

Many thanks

Felix

MacRS200 · May 11, 2006

Agree with Chips sounds like valve stem oil seals. Rings usually give out smoke on the overrun.

Some engines can have the seal replaced with the head on if you have the correct special tool to hold the valve in place as you remove the springs to get at the seal. Without that you have to take the head off so 2 days is about right, £90/hr seems steep though. Your "cowboy" at £45/hr less parts seems about right on cost.

Felix · May 12, 2006

Hi Guys,

I got the car back, it was not too bad, they did the 60K service, didn't find too much problems.

The only thing worth to mention is the "N/S inner + outer drive shaft boots split" I may have to get a new drive shaft. Could anyone tell me how much are we talking about here???

About the smoke, they said it might be the "PCV valve". Any idea how much to fix it???

Many thanks

Felix

Felix · May 15, 2006

It seems no one here...

norkep · May 15, 2006

Hi Felix,

Don't know where the PCV will be located on a Harrier but this maybe off some help -

How to Replace a PCV Valve

Done a bit of a search, and found this - PDF D/L

PCV

BR

Paul

Felix · May 15, 2006

Many thanks Paul,

The PCV Valve on the Harrier is located on the back of the engine, and it is not as easy as the LS 400 shows. It needs to remove quite few parts to get there. It only costs £5 in parts, but I don't really think it is the problem.

As you can see the smoke is quite lot, valve stem seals most likely to be the problem.

I will have someone whom from an engine specialist to look at the car tomorrow, I will keep you guys updated.

BTY, do I have to remove the head to change the valve stem seals on this one????

Someone said I could use the low air pressure to hold the valves in place while changing the seals without removing the head; does this apply to this engine????

Many thanks

Felix

norkep · May 15, 2006

If you can get hold off a valve stem replacer tool then no, this locks onto the valves themselfs, and keep the valves up so that you can remove the collets for replacement, make life alot easier.

As for the low pressure, not sure but if your stems are coated with coke, then the pressure would not work

Felix · May 23, 2006

Hello guys,

Many thanks for all of your replies!

I have drawn a conclusion that is I need to replace the valve stams seals. After I tried many different things to fix it, the mechanical fix is the only way I can really fix the problem.

I have ordered the parts from my local dealership for £187 (Head Gasket Set), they will deliver the parts on Friday. If I get it from USA, it costs £160 but takes 10-day delivery.

I got the “explore view” of the engine head, and the valve replacement tool, and my good old friend whom has been working for Ford for 30 years comes to help, he is doing this kind of work day in day out all the time.

Fingers crossed, Hope everything goes OK this weekend.

I will keep your guys up to date later….

Felix

P.S. this there anything your guys want to tell me to watch out???

chips229 · May 23, 2006

Thanks for the Update :)

Think your doing the right thing by replacing the valve stem seals,sounds like youve got the job covered Good Luck and keep us Updated..

chips..

ColinBarber · May 26, 2006

good luck :)

Not sure if you will have to drop the engine or not, it's very difficult to get to the rear half of the engine.

Felix · June 12, 2006

Sorry for my slow follow up.

Due to family event last two weekends, I was not able to do any thing to the car; I have booked this week off to finish off my second garage at the back of the garden.

Hopefully I can start the job today or tomorrow.

Will keep you guys up to date...

Felix

Felix · June 23, 2006

All done,

it takes lots more work than I throught.

I had to take the heads off, which I am glad I did that, sent them to steam clearned.

there is only one thing I want to tell you guys, a manual is very important, I got it from eBay, without the manual I would be in deep s**t.... It is so good.

here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lexus-RX300-Harrier-...1QQcmdZViewItem

there are some pic for you to share...

Cam over off

Heads off

Engine bay with one head off

Steam clearned engine heads

sorry for the low res, I had to take it with my phone.

More to come

Felix

norkep · June 23, 2006

looking good so far, your well on your way to fixing the problem once and for all.

Good Job Felix, always helpful when you have someone that knows a thing or 2 about these

Thanks for the update

chips229 · June 23, 2006

Hi,

Thanks for the update.

Id get some oil...WD40 or engine oil on the parts youve steam cleaned or before you know they will start to show signs of rust

Keep up the Good Work.

What state were the valve stem rubbers when you first took the head off?

Was the seals hard or breaking up?.

Chips..

Felix · June 24, 2006

Hi,
Thanks for the update.

Id get some oil...WD40 or engine oil on the parts youve steam cleaned or before you know they will start to show signs of rust

Keep up the Good Work.

What state were the valve stem rubbers when you first took the head off?

Was the seals hard or breaking up?.

Chips..

Guess what, there are only 2 seals became bit hearder than others, and only those bruning oil, you can tell from the states of the plugs, can you?

I got lots of pictures, I will get them all posted next week.

thanks

Felix