More Work Being Done

Kazi · October 26, 2008

Such a shame you fell like that Aidie. Not overly surprised mind. I think id be feeling the same. Hope its ready by the end of the month and you eventually get the outcome you need/want. Good luck.

cho · October 26, 2008

That's f'd up. I feel like I have been down a similar road but not through as much bs as you. I feel for you mate, I think there are a lot of tuners out there that just shouldn't be allowed to work on peoples cars. I think its time they brought in some kind of nationally recognised standards or some sought of security for customers. I hope you get this sorted asap, I spoke to abbey about mapping my Fcon and they refused as they want to get yours done before taking on anything else.

tdiplc · October 31, 2008

I think there are a lot of tuners out there that just shouldn't be allowed to work on peoples cars. I think its time they brought in some kind of nationally recognised standards or some sought of security for customers.

You have identified a very valid and topical point. The industry is getting a bad reputation as clients requirements become more demanding year on year and move beyond the technical capabilities of those involved. There is also a significant "professionalism" issue because the industry doesn't earn/pay enough to attract top quality managers.

There is a professional association already in existence that deals with this. Unfortunately only three firms have signed up so far but I hope more will join next year (if there are any still in business - several have gone bust already this year). The association is useful to clients for the following reasons:

1. Robust barriers to entry deters people that shouldn't really be there.

2. Clearly defined code of conduct (being reviewed by the Office of Fair Trading).

3. Certified professional indemnity insurance and motor trade insurance.

4. Dispute resolution to deal with any problems prior to expensive litigation.

5. Member companies not conforming to the standards will be removed from the association.

I think this is the only way forward for the industry to grow, and it should offer significant comfort to the public.

This is something that I was involved in creating and is in the process of becoming independant. You'll probably see the magazine adverts next year.

RoadRash · November 5, 2008

I feel very sorry for you, that you won't enjoy the result then.

But maybe I also would have lost interest and nerves in it,

when watching a workshop ****** around on my car for almost a year and nothing happens. :shutit:

Would have been one of the greatest IS200s in the world! ;)

Mike

Gord · November 5, 2008

I feel very sorry for you, that you won't enjoy the result then.
But maybe I also would have lost interest and nerves in it,

when watching a workshop ****** around on my car for almost a year and nothing happens. :shutit:

Would have been one of the greatest IS200s in the world! ;)

Mike

That what you get when you let someone work on your car, when thay think thay know what thay are doing, when in fact, thay dont :o

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

I feel very sorry for you, that you won't enjoy the result then.
But maybe I also would have lost interest and nerves in it,

when watching a workshop ****** around on my car for almost a year and nothing happens. :shutit:

Would have been one of the greatest IS200s in the world! ;)

Mike

That what you get when you let someone work on your car, when thay think thay know what thay are doing, when in fact, thay dont :o

That sounds like a very sweeping and possibly unfair statement to me. Obviously I don't know the answer but there may be very good reasons why RGS and Abbey have taken so long. Do you have any factual information to rely on?

RoadRash · November 5, 2008

Yes but after all that waiting just to sell it, Adie would be much more p***** off about everything,

than he would enjoy it finally and go to dragstrips, JAE or something with his hot ride.

I have sold him much of that stuff, to realize some awsome project,

since I have messed up my IS200 before starting mod-jobs

and kept in hope that he will get happy with all that.

So after investing tons of money and stresses I wouldn't put it away like a crushed toy which

got bitten into pieces by your house dog. :o

I would have acted a bit quicker to change workshop to finalize my project,

but maybe he had some guarantee cases or something like that....

Just my opinion... :shutit:

Gord · November 5, 2008

I feel very sorry for you, that you won't enjoy the result then.
But maybe I also would have lost interest and nerves in it,

when watching a workshop ****** around on my car for almost a year and nothing happens. :shutit:

Would have been one of the greatest IS200s in the world! ;)

Mike

That what you get when you let someone work on your car, when thay think thay know what thay are doing, when in fact, thay dont :o

That sounds like a very sweeping and possibly unfair statement to me. Obviously I don't know the answer but there may be very good reasons why RGS and Abbey have taken so long. Do you have any factual information to rely on?

Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blew the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again :o

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blow the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again :o

Abbey and RGS seem to be the only companies that have taken the long time (for which there may well be a very good explanation) that was refered to.

However, as you clearly seem to have made your mind up that the problems with Adies car are all our fault, please provide the evidence you have relied upon to form that opinion.

Thank you in advance.

Gord · November 5, 2008

Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blow the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again :o

Abbey and RGS seem to be the only companies that have taken the long time (for which there may well be a very good explanation) that was refered to.

However, as you clearly seem to have made your mind up that the problems with Adies car are all our fault, please provide the evidence you have relied upon to form that opinion.

Thank you in advance.

It was on my super duper Hard drive, that can take upto 2000bhp 4x4 to, all the best stuff, cost me a right bomb i can tell you.

Woops, dam, only problem with this sort of system is, when things go wrong and the customer want some data out of it :duh:

However..................i do have it on a post-it pad...............somewhere :winky:

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blow the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again :o

Abbey and RGS seem to be the only companies that have taken the long time (for which there may well be a very good explanation) that was refered to.

However, as you clearly seem to have made your mind up that the problems with Adies car are all our fault, please provide the evidence you have relied upon to form that opinion.

Thank you in advance.

It was on my super duper Hard drive, that can take upto 2000bhp 4x4 to, all the best stuff, cost me a right bomb i can tell you.

Woops, dam, only problem with this sort of system is, when things go wrong and the customer want some data out of it :duh:

However..................i do have it on a post-it pad...............somewhere :winky:

OK, if you don't have any factual data, please provide me with what you think we have done wrong.

Thank you in advance.

Gord · November 5, 2008

Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blow the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again :o

Abbey and RGS seem to be the only companies that have taken the long time (for which there may well be a very good explanation) that was refered to.

However, as you clearly seem to have made your mind up that the problems with Adies car are all our fault, please provide the evidence you have relied upon to form that opinion.

Thank you in advance.

It was on my super duper Hard drive, that can take upto 2000bhp 4x4 to, all the best stuff, cost me a right bomb i can tell you.

Woops, dam, only problem with this sort of system is, when things go wrong and the customer want some data out of it :duh:

However..................i do have it on a post-it pad...............somewhere :winky:

OK, if you don't have any factual data, please provide me with what you think we have done wrong.

Thank you in advance.

As you know full well.............YOU HAVE THE EVIDENCE THAT CAN CONVICT YOURSELF............And thats why your customer dont have it when he asked you for it :o

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blow the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again :o

Abbey and RGS seem to be the only companies that have taken the long time (for which there may well be a very good explanation) that was refered to.

However, as you clearly seem to have made your mind up that the problems with Adies car are all our fault, please provide the evidence you have relied upon to form that opinion.

Thank you in advance.

It was on my super duper Hard drive, that can take upto 2000bhp 4x4 to, all the best stuff, cost me a right bomb i can tell you.

Woops, dam, only problem with this sort of system is, when things go wrong and the customer want some data out of it :duh:

However..................i do have it on a post-it pad...............somewhere :winky:

OK, if you don't have any factual data, please provide me with what you think we have done wrong.

Thank you in advance.

As you know full well.............YOU HAVE THE EVIDENCE THAT CAN CONVICT YOURSELF............And thats why your customer dont have it when he asked you for it :o

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Whatever is on your mind, please bring it out into the open. I'm sure I can help you if you're prepared to listen.

sparkystav · November 5, 2008

That what you get when you let someone work on your car, when thay think thay know what thay are doing, when in fact, thay dont :o

That sounds like a very sweeping and possibly unfair statement to me. Obviously I don't know the answer but there may be very good reasons why RGS and Abbey have taken so long. Do you have any factual information to rely on?

Why does that Statement mean you? it could have ment RGS or Abbey?! Guilty conscience?

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

That what you get when you let someone work on your car, when thay think thay know what thay are doing, when in fact, thay dont :o

That sounds like a very sweeping and possibly unfair statement to me. Obviously I don't know the answer but there may be very good reasons why RGS and Abbey have taken so long. Do you have any factual information to rely on?

Why does that Statement mean you? it could have ment RGS or Abbey?! Guilty conscience?

In post 758 Gord said "Thats intresting you should mention RGS & Abbey, when you was the one that blow the engine when it was being mapped, RGS & Abbey now sorting YOUR mess out, yet again" in answer to my post, which is clear proof that he was refering to TDI.

I hope he can bring his concerns out into the open so that they can be dealt with.

sparkystav · November 5, 2008

but before that he hadnt mentioned you, it wasnt till you rose to the bait that he said that

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

but before that he hadnt mentioned you, it wasnt till you rose to the bait that he said that

He is clearly blaming us for the problems with Adies car, and has possibly infected other people with irrationality too, so it is appropriate that I deal with this issue.

He seems to have admitted that he doesn't have any factual data to rely on so I would like to know what he thinks we have done.

Am I being unreasonable?

sparkystav · November 5, 2008

You THOUGHT it was a statement about you in the first place. no proof there.

But anyway this is taking it all off topic, The topic is about Adie's car, so if he has problems with Garages it should b left to him to say.

If your not happy with something Gord's said pm him and ask the mods to edit the post if you have proof its derogatory. dont spam up members build threads.

tdiplc · November 5, 2008

You THOUGHT it was a statement about you in the first place. no proof there.

Gord confirmed that I was right. Please read his comments.

But anyway this is taking it all off topic, The topic is about Adie's car, so if he has problems with Garages it should b left to him to say.
If your not happy with something Gord's said pm him and ask the mods to edit the post if you have proof its derogatory. dont spam up members build threads.

Gord seems to have plenty to say about Adies problems, including blaming us for them.

Perhaps those sitting on the fence may be interested in seeing his arguments put to the test in public.

aztecbandit1 · November 5, 2008

I'd be happy just to see this get back on topic!!

Maybe start a new thread and keep this one for Adie to discuss his problems and maybe get them sorted?

Thankyou :)

Gord · November 6, 2008

You THOUGHT it was a statement about you in the first place. no proof there.

Gord confirmed that I was right. Please read his comments.

But anyway this is taking it all off topic, The topic is about Adie's car, so if he has problems with Garages it should b left to him to say.
If your not happy with something Gord's said pm him and ask the mods to edit the post if you have proof its derogatory. dont spam up members build threads.

Gord seems to have plenty to say about Adies problems, including blaming us for them.

Perhaps those sitting on the fence may be interested in seeing his arguments put to the test in public.

Right, did you or did you not blow Adies engine when mapping it ?

Then you said it was head gasket ?

But all six pistons was f****ed and more ?

You say it was person that did the engine ?

When asked for mapping data to prove afr and mapping ok, you say, no (well lost it, same as you did with cho) ?

RoadRash · November 6, 2008

As far as I was informed, that Adie's car wasn't in TDI workshop,

I thought he has put it into another garage?!

And some "Tuning-Specialists" forgot to exchange the head bolts,

that's why the engine blew up under a load of Power with 423BHP or sth.

That's what I have heard..... ;)

Please correct me if I'm wrong....

tdiplc · November 6, 2008

Right, did you or did you not blow Adies engine when mapping it ?

No we did not blow Adies engine.

The sub standard head gasket solution (two head gaskets and a non-conformable decompression plate) that was implemented by whoever built the engine, failed catastrophically.

Upon inspection, other internal isses were discovered that would have significantly reduced the engine's life expectancy, even if the sub standard head gasket solution had prevailed.

As with all situations where there may be a suspicion over the quality of our work, I recommended that Adie obtain an independant Engineers report. He did that, and I guess it's up to him whether he wants to share that with you but I can tell you that there was no fault found with our work.

Then you said it was head gasket ?
But all six pistons was f****ed and more ?

You say it was person that did the engine ?

That's correct. The head gasket failure was the original symptom and cause of the failure.

Upon engine strip down and inspection it was discovered that the piston skirts had seized in the bores and that there was a significant amount of dirt and debris inside the engine. Aparantly the engine had previously experienced a recent oil pump failure so I guess it is possible that the engine was not cleaned properly at the time of the build or subsequently after the oil pump failure (this is purely a logical speculation based on the discoverable evidence, and is no way intended to be pejoritive towards the engine builder).

Of crucial significance is the fact that there was no damage to the piston crowns. If there was damage to the piston crowns this could have meant that our tuning proceedures were not correct and possibly the cause of the engine failure. A classic symptom of incorrectly calibrated fuel and/or ignition is what is known as "detonation marks". Detonation marks are demonstrated by clear and obvious severe erotion damage to the piston crowns and cylinder head. Adies pistons had no detonation damage whatsover as confirmed by the independant Engineer.

The reason Adie had to change the pistons was due to the scuff marks left by the partial seizures, and not related in way shape or form to any tuning work that we had carried out.

When asked for mapping data to prove afr and mapping ok, you say, no (well lost it, same as you did with cho) ?

The head gasket failed during road testing, therefore no dyno data was being captured at that point. Chanjit was offered the hard copy of his calibration report.

I am hopeful that you and your chums have a better understanding of the situation now, and now realise that you have been completely wrong for a long time which has resulted in a high degree of toxicity for LOC and TDI.

I don't expect an apology, but I will request that you try to avoid jumping to conclusions in future. All you need to do is ask to find the correct answers.

All the best :)

cho · November 6, 2008

Right, did you or did you not blow Adies engine when mapping it ?

No we did not blow Adies engine.

The sub standard head gasket solution (two head gaskets and a non-conformable decompression plate) that was implemented by whoever built the engine, failed catastrophically.

Upon inspection, other internal isses were discovered that would have significantly reduced the engine's life expectancy, even if the sub standard head gasket solution had prevailed.

As with all situations where there may be a suspicion over the quality of our work, I recommended that Adie obtain an independant Engineers report. He did that, and I guess it's up to him whether he wants to share that with you but I can tell you that there was no fault found with our work.

Then you said it was head gasket ?
But all six pistons was f****ed and more ?

You say it was person that did the engine ?

That's correct. The head gasket failure was the original symptom and cause of the failure.

Upon engine strip down and inspection it was discovered that the piston skirts had seized in the bores and that there was a significant amount of dirt and debris inside the engine. Aparantly the engine had previously experienced a recent oil pump failure so I guess it is possible that the engine was not cleaned properly at the time of the build or subsequently after the oil pump failure (this is purely a logical speculation based on the discoverable evidence, and is no way intended to be pejoritive towards the engine builder).

Of crucial significance is the fact that there was no damage to the piston crowns. If there was damage to the piston crowns this could have meant that our tuning proceedures were not correct and possibly the cause of the engine failure. A classic symptom of incorrectly calibrated fuel and/or ignition is what is known as "detonation marks". Detonation marks are demonstrated by clear and obvious severe erotion damage to the piston crowns and cylinder head. Adies pistons had no detonation damage whatsover as confirmed by the independant Engineer.

The reason Adie had to change the pistons was due to the scuff marks left by the partial seizures, and not related in way shape or form to any tuning work that we had carried out.

When asked for mapping data to prove afr and mapping ok, you say, no (well lost it, same as you did with cho) ?

The head gasket failed during road testing, therefore no dyno data was being captured at that point. Chanjit was offered the hard copy of his calibration report.

I am hopeful that you and your chums have a better understanding of the situation now, and now realise that you have been completely wrong for a long time which has resulted in a high degree of toxicity for LOC and TDI.

I don't expect an apology, but I will request that you try to avoid jumping to conclusions in future. All you need to do is ask to find the correct answers.

All the best :)