Phone + Navigation Override Tricks Won't Work

[rx.300]

I am completely for starting this petition. In the petition we can also mention that BMW or Mercedes do not restrict their cars from dialling out whilst driving. As to how to start it, I dont know.

[Fe_La]

I agree with Williz that the first 'page' which comes up with the nav is more than enough for adults. It also complies with the European law requirements. I am used to confirming the warning from my previous cars and I think so are you people. I assume the RX is not the first car with navigation for most of us.

Last weekend I had the opportunity to drive quite a few hundred kilometers with my new RX 400h. We went down to Normandy, France with my family. On the way my wife was playing around a bit with the navigation, especially when we drove from village to village along the coast line. I was kind of shocked seeing so many possibilities what you can do with the nav system while the car is in move.

You can, for example, search on the map (which is, in my opinion, much more attention drawing for the driver than simply inputting town and street names with the word predictive system whether the driver does it or the passenger), you can detour your route based on different criteria, you can select amongst quick1, quick2 and short routes and you can look them up on the map in detail, where you can zoom in and out, etc. You can also input virtually any destination if you are ok with maps. For example, you can input your neighboring street in your home town as destination while you are in France in your MOVING vehicle.

But instead of the easy, word predicting way, which would be faster, less attention drawing, you are forced to do it by searching for the street on the map. It is funny isn't it? Of course you would not do this trick while driving, but the system allows you to do so.

So why do we all have to accept this? Isn't this pushing people to make more likely accidents? Wouldn't it be less dangerous to allow us, I mean with the help of the passenger, to input the destination with the normal, word predictive way while the car is in move?

People, imagine this. You drive your RX. You have a passenger, doesn't matter who. You do not want to stop your car, because you just don't want to lose a minute. You ask your passenger to touch the screen and find x street in y town. The passenger starts doing so, but it turns out that she or he is not so good at maps and you need to look at the screen time to time and assist her in pulling the map a little bit to the left, a little bit to the top, zooming in more, etc. Your attention would not be on the road, for sure.

On the other hand if we could use the built-in word predictive input for destination, even we while driving could do it in a few seconds or if you cannot keep your left eye on the road while the right is on the dashboard ;-) you would have to explain much less to your passenger.

The same with the phone. It would be much less attention drawing for the driver if he could input the number or search for numbers on the dashboard, which is closer to the road in the eyesight than the phone held in your hand.

Do you people see my point?

All this could be a good starting point for the petition.

Of course Lexus could come up with the solution that they disable even more functions while the car is in move. But come on. Why did we spend thousands of Euros or Pounds on the nav system? To use it while the car is parked in the garage? For less cost we all could have bought any top of the range aftermarket nav system, right? (Even with more functions) It is time to get the correct value in exchange for our money.

Sorry for my long message. Just wanted to shake you all up a bit in order to unite and make that petition.

This week or the latest on the next week I will bring the subject up at my lawyer. I do not promise anything, though. Let's see what we can do. I would appreciate if others could also make some steps further. Asking your lawyer a few questions does not cost anything.

On top of this we will need for sure as many signatures of European RX 400h owners as possible, so please register if not done yet and add your confirmation below, so we know that we can count on you in the crusade of getting the value for our money. What we want is simple. Full use of all functions including nav system and Bluetooth phone, etc. while the car is in move and additionally the power of choice with the beeping of the seatbelt warning whether it should be audible or only silent warning with the flashing lights.

Do we want to HAVE a nav system and Bluetooth hands free phone in our cars or do we want to actually USE them? It is nice to have them but have low value or zero value if we cannot use them OR if we can use them in a way that is more likely to draw our attention off the road.

Ferenc

[SteveAudioX]

New system works on CAN.

If you cut these wires you will lose speed sense during navi, which makes it in-acurate.

Yes there is a way to do this;;;

[williz]

i fully agree with Ferenc.

we spending premium money and getting less than US customers.

the other thing is that i experienced that lexus europe is willing to listen.

i have gone now thru a long process of summarizing all complains about hands free and handy problems (pairing, phonebook transfer and audio quality). as a result lexus europe have tested around 57 handys in the last weeks and will come up with a internet based information about compatible handys and a detailed procedure for each to connect to the car hands free and tranfere the phonebook. a pre-release version will go out to the lexus dealers in the next days. i suggested to make some changes (reducing the complexity of technical info useless for most customers and adding the handy software version to the info) for the internet based customer version.

if we like to make things change we must put a sound story together and bring it to the attention of lexus europe management.

they must know what there customers think and feel and i personally have the impression that lexus dealers are not speaking for there customers or even lexus europe is not listen to them.

so please put your agreement as a reply in here.

williz

[fidback]

That's the point. For our european models, we pay more for less features...

Just have a look to the us user guide to understand how badly considered we are.

I don't understand why:

- we can't set the doors auto-locking mode (perhaps car jacking doesn't exist here?)

- one must unlock all the doors to have the backdoor open, and wait for the complete backdoor shutdown to be able to lock the car.

- when you park your car, the lights remain on - when set to auto - until you open the door.

- we can't have the automatic folding of rear view mirrors

- we are to cope with the standard power outlet (12 VDC) where us cars own also a 115 VAC

- one has decided we don't need the homelink feature, nor to choose to pay a premium for the adaptative cruise control

- lexus managers think we're so stupid we can't play with the same kind of Bluetooth and gps systems than bmw or mercedes car drivers have, unless it's we're so smart we would all use the us tricks?

By the way, I'm amazed to see how quickly it is to have the car batteries drained when fully accelerating...

i fully agree with Ferenc.

we spending premium money and getting less than US customers.

the other thing is that i experienced that lexus europe is willing to listen.

i have gone now thru a long process of summarizing all complains about hands free and handy problems (pairing, phonebook transfer and audio quality). as a result lexus europe have tested around 57 handys in the last weeks and will come up with a internet based information about compatible handys and a detailed procedure for each to connect to the car hands free and tranfere the phonebook. a pre-release version will go out to the lexus dealers in the next days. i suggested to make some changes (reducing the complexity of technical info useless for most customers and adding the handy software version to the info) for the internet based customer version.

if we like to make things change we must put a sound story together and bring it to the attention of lexus europe management.

they must know what there customers think and feel and i personally have the impression that lexus dealers are not speaking for there customers or even lexus europe is not listen to them.

so please put your agreement as a reply in here.

williz

[williz]

That's the point. For our european models, we pay more for less features...

Just have a look to the us user guide to understand how badly considered we are.

I don't understand why:

- we can't set the doors auto-locking mode (perhaps car jacking doesn't exist here?)

- one must unlock all the doors to have the backdoor open, and wait for the complete backdoor shutdown to be able to lock the car.

- when you park your car, the lights remain on - when set to auto - until you open the door.

- we can't have the automatic folding of rear view mirrors

- we are to cope with the standard power outlet (12 VDC) where us cars own also a 115 VAC

- one has decided we don't need the homelink feature, nor to choose to pay a premium for the adaptative cruise control

- lexus managers think we're so stupid we can't play with the same kind of bluetooth and gps systems than bmw or mercedes car drivers have, unless it's we're so smart we would all use the us tricks?

By the way, I'm amazed to see how quickly it is to have the car batteries drained when fully accelerating...

and please dont forget the warranty difference between 3 and 5 years resp. 5 and 8 years!!!!!! and in most cases customer service not comparable to Lexus US or mercedes or BMW in europe.

i have written a letter to Toyota Motor Marketing Europe about all that. i am waiting now for there reaction.

[Nikos]

That's the point. For our european models, we pay more for less features...

Just have a look to the us user guide to understand how badly considered we are.

I don't understand why:

- we can't set the doors auto-locking mode (perhaps car jacking doesn't exist here?)

- one must unlock all the doors to have the backdoor open, and wait for the complete backdoor shutdown to be able to lock the car.

- when you park your car, the lights remain on - when set to auto - until you open the door.

- we can't have the automatic folding of rear view mirrors

- we are to cope with the standard power outlet (12 VDC) where us cars own also a 115 VAC

- one has decided we don't need the homelink feature, nor to choose to pay a premium for the adaptative cruise control

- lexus managers think we're so stupid we can't play with the same kind of bluetooth and gps systems than bmw or mercedes car drivers have, unless it's we're so smart we would all use the us tricks?

By the way, I'm amazed to see how quickly it is to have the car batteries drained when fully accelerating...

I agree with the above and I do not understand why European models have not the same options with the Americans.

I had previous a Jeep Grand Cherokee and what features I am missing are

1. The Auto Lock door features that can be set by the driver not the dealer.

2. The different Memory Key for each driver seat, memory and radio station preferences.

3. The driver can open close the other windows even with the window lock on

4. That you can fold the rear view mirrors without the key in the ignition

I was expecting Japanese Cars to be more technological advance than the Americans

[PaulMc]

Agree, you can put my name on the list!

[lelandv]

Welcome to the compensation-culture and nanny-state...

my name on the list too, please.

Leland

[rx.300]

I am all for it

[Loopster]

Put me on the list too!

I have found a sub menu on the system setup screen

After entering the 'secret menu' (Menu or Info then side lights on/off 3 times), you then push top left and bottom right of the screen alternately. This takes you into a new menu which has a few new gizzmos. Unfortunately I can't actually find anything to do with the phone/satnav override setting but it may help someone else figure out where it is! For info, I've only tried this on my '05 RX400h...

Another item for the grumbles list is that you can't actually enter a phone number and name into the memory without bluetoothing it across - how DAFT is that? This is particularly annoying if you have a phone which stores more than one number per name as the car only stores the last number for the named entry - there is a tedious solution to this but c'mon this is a Jap car and should be a bit further advanced than 1999 Bluetooth.

Cheers,

Loop

[jpmota]

Just taking possession of a rx400h (coming from X5) : it's a super car but I agree with all of you , it could be easily perfect if ..

- automatic door lock

- enable destination modification when running

-..

-etc

please put me on the list of the "not entirely satisfied" Lexus owners , in order to push Lexus Europe to upgrade by a new firmware more adapted, at least with the same level of "non-constraints" as in US.

Jean-Pierre

[dmi]

My new(to me) rx300sel (05) is arriving next week and I cannot believe what I am reading about the Bluetooth facility, a major reasoning for choosing this particular car.

I was planning on buying a Bluetooth compatible phone to use while i am driving but what i am reading is that as long as you dial out when you are not moving you can use it, but not when the car is travelling - what is the point?

Does this mean i might as well stay with my old, non-bluetooth, phone and fit a hands free kit?

The laughable thing is that this is all in the name of safety- so instead of pressing a button to dial out (whats the difference to changing radio station?) I have(in the absence of a hands free kit) to put my phone to my ear and twiddle with the fiddly keypad, risking a ban as well as my life and that of others', Have I chose the wrong car I am now asking - shou;d I have gone for either a Merc or lower spec rx and put a tom tom in?

Add my name to this petition you guys are doing - and not even got car yet!

[lelandv]

Put me on the list too!

I have found a sub menu on the system setup screen

Interestingly enough, this sub-menu has a setting for target market (US, JAP, EU RHD, EU LHD, etc etc.).. I'm just curious if it's actually the same system that is installed in the US, and if one simply has to change it to a "US" version in order to make use of the other hidden features available to our colonies on the other side of the pond...

The downside is that I think that it may need to verify the setting against the version of the DVD loaded into the satnav system...

I've not even dared to try it though... has anyone else by chance taken the plunge on this ?

L.

[Sabastian]

My new(to me) rx300sel (05) is arriving next week and I cannot believe what I am reading about the bluetooth facility, a major reasoning for choosing this particular car.

I was planning on buying a bluetooth compatible phone to use while i am driving but what i am reading is that as long as you dial out when you are not moving you can use it, but not when the car is travelling - what is the point?

Does this mean i might as well stay with my old, non-bluetooth, phone and fit a hands free kit?

The laughable thing is that this is all in the name of safety- so instead of pressing a button to dial out (whats the difference to changing radio station?) I have(in the absence of a hands free kit) to put my phone to my ear and twiddle with the fiddly keypad, risking a ban as well as my life and that of others', Have I chose the wrong car I am now asking - shou;d I have gone for either a Merc or lower spec rx and put a tom tom in?

Add my name to this petition you guys are doing - and not even got car yet!

You can call any contact stored in the 'One Touch' directory whilst on the move.

A friend on mine has 'TomTom' navigation in his car and I am horrified when he fiddles with it whilst driving. I read recently that numerous accidents are caused by this wreckless behaviour. I only wish that the same safety features that my Lexus Navigation has applied to all portable systems.

[dmi]

You can call any contact stored in the 'One Touch' directory whilst on the move.

A friend on mine has 'TomTom' navigation in his car and I am horrified when he fiddles with it whilst driving. I read recently that numerous accidents are caused by this wreckless behaviour. I only wish that the same safety features that my Lexus Navigation has applied to all portable systems.

thanks very much for this - that is indeed of some comfort and probably sensible as long as you can have say at least 20 in the 1 touch mode. If one of these is 'the operator' then I guess for a little extra cost he can put you through to any number whilst on the move?

Probably wrong thread, but there seems to be issues about phones and car talking to each other via blue tooth with certain phones. is there a consensus of which one I should go for for 'guiaranteed' will work ok

[williz]

lexus europe has finished testing of 57 handy models 3 weeks ago. only 4 or 5 are not working at all.

but most of the handy models (especially from nokia and motorola) are not supporting the "sending of the whole phonebook at once" function. so if your handy is not supporting this function you have to send each phonebook entry one by one to the car hands free.

lexus will post a users guide on there lexus europe homepage in the next weeks. if you know your handy type i can send you a preliminary version of the users guide (how to bind handy and car hands free and send your phone book to the car hands free) or i can tell you if there are limitations with that model. here is a preliminary version of the test result from lexus.

http://www.lexusclub.ch/bluetooth/System05..._Liste_2006.pdf

by the way, there are 17 short dial numbers you can use while your car is moving. in addition you can use all your handy functions like voice dial, phonebook dial directly with your phone and when connection is established the call is handed over to the car hands free.

so there are many ways to establish your calls but please keep in mind that searching thru some hundred phone numbers while driving is really dangerous!!!!!

[lelandv]

by the way, there are 17 short dial numbers you can use while your car is moving. in addition you can use all your handy functions like voice dial, phonebook dial directly with your phone and when connection is established the call is handed over to the car hands free.

so there are many ways to establish your calls but please keep in mind that searching thru some hundred phone numbers while driving is really dangerous!!!!!

The only real problem here is that some mobile phones see the in-car system as a full-featured integrated system and not simply a "Bluetooth headset" and as such lock out the handset functions as long as it's paired to the car... which basically means in that case you can't use the handset at all and are restricted to what the car's system itself can do...

L.

[Dan512]

...and when connection is established the call is handed over to the car hands free.

My Qtek 8310 works more or less fine, sound quality on the handsfree is a lot worse than with a friends Siemens S65 but I need the Qtek because of my job.

Only problem is, I always loose the first few seconds of each conversation, dialing out, as the the handfree kit kicks in with a 2-3 seconds delay, after the other side picks up. So the other side is going "hello, hello, hello" for a few seconds and I find myself always having to explain I didn't get their name etc. etc., which tends to be quite annoying in business calls, especially if you have call up the same number 10 times a day for weeks in a row and sort of make a fool out of yourself every time.

This means also that you don't get any ring or busy tone on the handsfree kit. It only kicks in "by surprise" when the other side picks up (or doesn't, if the lline is busy, and leaves you wondering why nothing happens). So I have to keep glancing at my phoen all of the time. Talk of a security bonus!

In all, the handsfree kit is absolute crap, a lot worse than the old kit in my last BMW, which dated from 2000. It really leaves my wondering if Lexus / Toyota engineers don't use handsfree kits, and though don't realize what :tsktsk: they installed.

Dan

[williz]

First of all, please don’t get me wrong here. My last Bluetooth hands free car kit for 250,- EUR was supporting voice dial and the voice quality was much better than the lexus (denon) hands free system.

I keep telling Lexus Europe now for many month that I am not willing to accept such outdated technology for so much money.

But we all have to live with that hands free system for some time and therefore I think we should share as much information as we can to make our live at least acceptable.

The car hands free is supporting two Bluetooth protocols, one is the HFP (Hands Free Profile, this is normally used for headsets)

and the other is the OPP (Object Push Profile, this is normally used for data transfer between computers).

It very much depends what protocol your handy is using when connecting (binding) with the car hands free. I don’t like to get in to much detail here but if you’re handy is not using the HFP protocol for the normal voice send receive and the call establishing then the problems some of you describing here are “normal”.

So how can we get most out of it, I suggest the following:

1. using a handy described in the Lexus list as fully compatible (for example the Qtex 8030 is not in the list, the Qtex 9090 is fully compatible). And the handy must have the latest software version on, in many cases older software versions make serious troubles and not even work with hands free system from the same brand!

2. Stick to the “pairing procedures for Bluetooth handsets” from Lexus Europe (available for 54 handy´s now) for establishing the connection between handy and car hands free (binding) and transferring the phonebook entry’s from handy to car hands free.

3. before you start please delete all old connections from your car hands free and switch your handy off and on again in order to get a ”clean” system to work with (keep in mind that your handy is a multitasking system with many tasks running in the background and some times one of this tasks is already crashed but your handy is not showing it to you).

4. if you have bad voice send- receive levels then you can try to adjust this by changing the send- receive level in the Bluetooth service menu (in many cases this is increasing the voice quality dramatically!).

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachment...tid=64730&stc=1

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachment...tid=64731&stc=1

(this are screenshots from a GS but it looks the same in the RX). To enter this menu switch on the ignition, hold the info button and switch on and of the lights 4 times (or go to you dealer and make him doing this adjustments for you).

Meantime we are discussing these issues further with Lexus Europe in order to get things a bit more customer oriented. One first result is this handy compatibility chart and the “pairing procedure for Bluetooth handsets” soon be available on Lexus Europe homepage.

This are my personal experiences with a Sonyericsson V800/Z800 and my RX400:

After resetting (switching off and on) the telephone, binding with car hands free worked with out any problems. Normal telephone functions have been ok.

When I tried to send the telephone book to the car, the V800 refused to send it via Bluetooth and when I selected send telephone book on the car hands free the connection was terminated immediately.

At that point I was really frustrated. After cooling down I started to thinking and I found out that the V800 automatically connected to the hands free by activating the hands free profile.

Normal hands free sets are using HFP and HFP is normally not used to send/receive DataStream’s.

Question was now, how do I get the car hands free and the V800 connecting to each other by using the OPP in order to get the “send telephone book” working.

The key to success was to initiate a binding after the selection of “send telephone book” on the cars hands free system (connection terminated). When you do a binding at that point the V800 is binding with the OPP as it would be binding with a computer or PDA. Then you can transfer the telephone book. After transferring the telephone book you must delete this connection and reconnect using the HFP. From that moment on the V800 is automatically connected after switching on the car and every thing works ok.

In order to allow the automatic connection between the car and the V800 the V800 should be in the main menu (means you should not have any messages like missed calls or sms messages on the handy screen) otherwise the automatic binding is very often not working, if this happens it is best to switch the handy off and on again (this is also the case with Z600 and V800/Z800 using sonyericcson car hands free systems like HCB 30 or HCB 300)

[dmi]

Really appreciate the info.

Although not on list provided (but seems to be a popular phone?) I think I am going to go for a Nokia 6280. Apart from single entry transfer has anyone else had a problem with this.

By the way i assume that my Mar 2005 RX300 SEL will have Bluetooth capability on it - I did not check this with dealer and assumed it was standard but seem to have read differently elsewhere.

[Loopster]

[

Interestingly enough, this sub-menu has a setting for target market (US, JAP, EU RHD, EU LHD, etc etc.).. I'm just curious if it's actually the same system that is installed in the US, and if one simply has to change it to a "US" version in order to make use of the other hidden features available to our colonies on the other side of the pond...

The downside is that I think that it may need to verify the setting against the version of the DVD loaded into the satnav system...

I've not even dared to try it though... has anyone else by chance taken the plunge on this ?

L.

What makes you think that the DVD version needs to be verified? Is that necessary on other sub menu functions? I might have a pop at it this week, let you know how I get on...

[lelandv]

What makes you think that the DVD version needs to be verified? Is that necessary on other sub menu functions? I might have a pop at it this week, let you know how I get on...

The fact that if you access that menu option, but don't actually change the setting (i.e. keeping it set for EURO RHD), then push "exit" or "back" or whatever hte button was in the top right corner... it then says that it is checking the DVD information....

L.

[Loopster]

Thanks for that.

I suspect that it checks against the DVD installed in the car so if you change the setting, the nav may not work, although I wonder what would happen with an imported vehicle? I'm *hoping* that it'll change back again easy enough if i try it!

Time to put my money where my mouth is...? ---Gulp---

[lelandv]

Thanks for that.

I suspect that it checks against the DVD installed in the car so if you change the setting, the nav may not work, although I wonder what would happen with an imported vehicle? I'm *hoping* that it'll change back again easy enough if i try it!

Time to put my money where my mouth is...? ---Gulp---

So how did you get on? ;)

L.