Any Clever Cloggs

[Monster-Mat]

ok i have 2 pumps pumping "fuel" each pumps @ 35 gallons per hour =159 litres per hour

total = 70 gallons per hour = 318litres per hour

i have a second pump, which im told pumps 450Lbs per hour = 204kg hour

am i correct in thinking 1 litre of water weighs 1 kilo, therefore fuel is heavier than water

so my second pump will never drain the reservoir the 2 pumps are trying to filling.....?

basically 2 primary pumps draw fuel from a tank to a swirl tank, where the main pump then draws from, and feeds the injectors

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Surely weight of water doesn't matter. Your swirl tank will overflow :(

[koshime]

Although 1000 mL water = 1000 grams, I am not sure if that is the same for fuel. seems like an expensive way to experiment.....also, doesnt the diameter or container dimensions affect the ease of flow of the pumps?

[Monster-Mat]

ah sorry, forgot to mention...the system is sealed, there is a return from the swirl tank to the fuel tank,

so to clarify...the 2 smaller pumps draw fuel from the fuel tank and pump it into the swirl tank, which has a return back to the fuel tank.

the single big pump pumps fuel from the swirl tank to the fuel injectors, which also has a rturn to the swirl tank

i am trying to determin if the system is fairly balanced,

ive worked out that the cycle of fuel through the system (its a 30 litre fuel tank and a 1.5 litre swirl tank)...the cycle will be that the fuel is cycled 10 times in 1 hour, which isnt so bad.....10 x being the 300 litres that the primary pumps move.

confusing yes...possible pumping overkill......hmmm me thinks so, but it will keep the fuel cooler

what was confusing me was the euro method of calculating litres per hour/gallons per hour, to the US way of calculating by weight in lbs per hour.why calculate fuel by weight, its a liquid??

Edited December 24, 2005 by Monster-Mat

[Mr Morse]

Send me a diagram......

[Monster-Mat]

Send me a diagram......

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here you go mike

[legendswraith]

Send me a diagram......

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here you go mike

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i am far too inebriated to read the full post matt but fuel is lighter than water i would imagine it is 0.8-0.9kg/1000ml but u need the s.g to do calculations when i have my thinking head on i will look again but if u pm me what u need i may be able to sort it out it cannot be any harder than perf hover figures on harriers

[oldcro]

Send me a diagram......

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here you go mike

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Ledgenswraith,

According to your drawing, the discharge from the EFI FUEL PUMP is returned to the SURGE TANK. So on its own would be a closed loop system and no other equipment is needed. I presume there are fuel losses via the injecters and this loss is the amount the FUEL PUMPS have to make up.

A simple test will show how long the lost fuel takes to fill a container, then see if the FUEL PUMP/S can fill the container faster, and Bob's your uncle.

There is probably a lot more to this than your drawing shows, so perhaps more info is needed.

oldun

[legendswraith]

Send me a diagram......

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here you go mike

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Ledgenswraith,

According to your drawing, the discharge from the EFI FUEL PUMP is returned to the SURGE TANK. So on its own would be a closed loop system and no other equipment is needed. I presume there are fuel losses via the injecters and this loss is the amount the FUEL PUMPS have to make up.

A simple test will show how long the lost fuel takes to fill a container, then see if the FUEL PUMP/S can fill the container faster, and Bob's your uncle.

There is probably a lot more to this than your drawing shows, so perhaps more info is needed.

oldun

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its not me (points at mat) are u trying to work out flow rates matt? as u will need to know the pressure a the injector side if u are

[legendswraith]

Send me a diagram......

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here you go mike

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Ledgenswraith,

According to your drawing, the discharge from the EFI FUEL PUMP is returned to the SURGE TANK. So on its own would be a closed loop system and no other equipment is needed. I presume there are fuel losses via the injecters and this loss is the amount the FUEL PUMPS have to make up.

A simple test will show how long the lost fuel takes to fill a container, then see if the FUEL PUMP/S can fill the container faster, and Bob's your uncle.

There is probably a lot more to this than your drawing shows, so perhaps more info is needed.

oldun

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its not me (points at mat) are u trying to work out flow rates matt? as u will need to know the pressure a the injector side if u are

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right thinking of this again ur main pumps in th tank need to have a reater pump then thet n the swirl tank otherwise u get starvation

if u are trying to feed a positive flow to the injectors u nee to know what is coming out of the fuel raiil. i can see what u are getting at but i do not think a pump will help it

not in that style anyway what u want is na ejector pump whch is a bunch of ducts that create a flow without mechanical input but wit ha n inducement of flow from ur main pumps

[Rodders_UK]

Isn't water heavier than fuel? (which is why water settles to the bottom of a petrol tank if it gets in there and used to cause rust on old cars?)

[Mr Morse]

Mat, water density is 1,000g/l and petrol approx 700g/l.

Since this is a sealed system, the only relevance to the fluid density is the integrity of any seals. As long a the feed pipes from the main fuel tank to the surge tank are of equal diameter and length I see no reason why this won't work.

[Monster-Mat]

thanks guys, all fuel lines to the surge tank are - 6 the feed to the main pump is -8, and from the main pump onwards, to injectors and FPR -6 fuel lines, returns are - 6

so that

x2 -6 feeds from tank to surge tank (2 pumps)

x1 -6 return to main tank, from surge tank

x1 -8 surge to main pump

now i have been told that the psi of the main pump is 2 low ..........

450lbs/h @ 13.5 v, 45psi, surely the FPR regulates the rail pressure, in this instance, reducing the flow back to the tank

looking at Aeromotives flow rates all there electric pumps are 45psi.

for 70psi @13.5 v the pump will flow 300 lbs/h = 136kg/h

going of mikes info on fuel weight i work that out to be 194 litres per hour?

Edited December 24, 2005 by Monster-Mat

[whiteman]

all these mathematical equasions as dun me brain in, very technical all this but I know one thing for defo, water is heavier than fuel :duh:

[legendswraith]

all these mathematical equasions as dun me brain in,  very technical all this but I know one thing for defo, water is heavier than fuel :duh:

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pumps dont produce pressure they produce flow, restrictions in the flow create pressure if you need higher pressure fit a restrictor as long as the flow rate remains constant the pressure will go up but the back pressure may put alot of strain on the pump

[p.k.blaauw]

all these mathematical equasions as dun me brain in,  very technical all this but I know one thing for defo, water is heavier than fuel :duh:

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fuel = 0,72 kilo per liter

water= 1,00 kilo per liter