Speed Monitors

[Damer]

For the past few weeks outside my house has been has been one of those speed sign things that flashes up how fast you are going if you go over 30mph.

I think it is a good idea as I live parralell to a another main road, which has a GATSO so loads of people use our road instead.

The top speed I have seen on it 59mph!!!!

Are these things used as a test to see if a GATSO is needed? Are the speeds monitored or recorded as the frequency of people setting it off is frightening, especially as we have kids and live near a park and there are loads of schools nearby.

Thoughts welcome.

[MrADeveci]

They are an "awareness" device.

To make drivers aware of the speed they are actually doing ........... I personally think they are actually crap .... as all it does, is encourages drivers to drive up to them even faster ..... to see what speed they can flash up.

As for the recording of the speeds, I highly doubt it does .............. as I have seen some on a few roads, and the speeds registered on them are very high .... and still no gatso ! :)

[Damer]

They are an "awareness" device.

To make drivers aware of the speed they are actually doing ........... I personally think they are actually crap .... as all it does, is encourages drivers to drive up to them even faster ..... to see what speed they can flash up.

As for the recording of the speeds, I highly doubt it does .............. as I have seen some on a few roads, and the speeds registered on them are very high .... and still no gatso !  :)

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Thanks suspected as much. Really bad at the weekends when all the Sunday bikers fly past on the way out of Stockport to the Peaks.

I've emailed local Council Road Safety Team to see what they are going to do.

Touch wood not seen any accidents outside my house, but the speeds are scary, until it was there never realised how many people speed past. It must go off with 1 out of ever 4 cars.

[scorcher]

As for the recording of the speeds, I highly doubt it does .............. as I have seen some on a few roads, and the speeds registered on them are very high .... and still no gatso !  :)

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Do four people have to be seriously injured or killed in the same location for a GATSO to go up?

Am sure I read that somewhere, but don't know if it's true or not.

[Kazi]

I think they are a great idea. As I don't intend to speed I often don't realise what speed im doing. And yes, less of the "Its only an IS200!" :D

So thumbs from me as its got me slowing down everytime.

[Diapason]

I passed one of these on a motorway here recently. The speed limit on that stretch is 120kph, but this flashed up telling me to slow down cos my speed was 116kph. Very Irish.

Interestingly enough, the speedo in the car said I was going faster than 120. I somehow doubt that was the lesson I was meant to learn from this device -- that my speedo overestimates actual speed, so I can therefore drive faster...

Si

[eXOBeX]

I think the ones that just flash up "SLOW DOWN" together with the limit are better. No boy racers trying to beat their "score" like the speed-display ones, plus they actually alert you that you're going too fast, unlike Gatsos.

[MrADeveci]

I think the ones that just flash up "SLOW DOWN" together with the limit are better.  No boy racers trying to beat their "score" like the speed-display ones, plus they actually alert you that you're going too fast, unlike Gatsos.

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Very true ....

I have seen ones like mentioned in the first post ... only if you drive up to them too fast ... they just flash "30" ....... like a reminder !

[Rillo]

One near me which flashes "SLOW DOWN". Even though I know where it is and that there is no camera to catch me if I sped past, I still slow down automatically!! Must be psychological but it works whatever it is.

[Jolliffee]

They seem to visibly embarrass drivers into slowing since we can all see they are over the limit.

[eXOBeX]

One near me which flashes "SLOW DOWN".  Even though I know where it is and that there is no camera to catch me if I sped past, I still slow down automatically!!  Must be psychological but it works whatever it is.

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That's what I forgot to mention - they work!

Less Gatsos, more "slow" auto-signs, less w@nkers hiding in their talivans, more traffic cops. That's what we need.

[Rillo]

One near me which flashes "SLOW DOWN".  Even though I know where it is and that there is no camera to catch me if I sped past, I still slow down automatically!!   Must be psychological but it works whatever it is.

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That's what I forgot to mention - they work!

Less Gatsos, more "slow" auto-signs, less w@nkers hiding in their talivans, more traffic cops. That's what we need.

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couldn't agree more!

BTW does anyone still believe that camera partnerships place cameras solely to save lives and not to make money?? It would be interesting to know how the percentage has changed in the last 10 years..

[flotsam]

I've seen a lot of those recently.

Clearly the government is finding new and useless ways to spend tax payer's money. The only use is to test the accuracy of your speedo which means breaking the speed limit to make them show a reading.

[Lex-aholic]

They should have ones that come up with things like "That's a cool car", or "Nice Lexus" so it embarrases other drivers :D

[Diapason]

Nah I'd still be embarrassed. I'd regularly see messages like:

"Would you ever give that car a decent clean"

or

"I thought you said you were going to buy some Meguiars"

or

"It's no good getting the alloys refurbed if you never clean the sodding things."

Si

[Lex-aholic]

Nah I'd still be embarrassed. I'd regularly see messages like:

"Would you ever give that car a decent clean"

or

"I thought you said you were going to buy some Meguiars"

or

"It's no good getting the alloys refurbed if you never clean the sodding things."

Si

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Haha ! Good points. But shame on you. :P

[Diapason]

shame on you. :P

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If it stops raining, that will hopefully be addressed tomorrow. It's time the car got some TLC, and since my girlfriend's away for the weekend it's next in line. :D

Si

[TheGuv]

For the past few weeks outside my house has been has been one of those speed sign things that flashes up how fast you are going if you go over 30mph.

Around here they move these signs around quite often. They appear in a new place for a couple of weeks, and on the third week there'll be a copper with handheld thingy catching people who ignore the warnings...

'Guv

[chips229]

I think the money would be better spent putting more police back on the streets that way they would be looking out for more than just speeders,poor driving and peace of mind for joe public.

[Dave-Ellen]

more random stops for tax & insurance checks.........clamp car if not insured/taxed/mot'd make em walk home..............then crush car

[Damer]

more random stops for tax & insurance checks.........clamp car if not insured/taxed/mot'd make em walk home..............then crush car

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A second hand dealer near me parks all his stock on the road. No tax discs, in a 1 hour waiting zone. So no one car park. As a result (well imo) 2 shops have had to close because customers couldn't park there.

Really anoys me, a reason why we had to change video shop. A liitle thing but why should he get away with it :tsktsk:

[eXOBeX]

more random stops for tax & insurance checks.........clamp car if not insured/taxed/mot'd make em walk home..............then crush car

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Glad you mentioned that!

[eXOBeX pops outside to change his tax disc, which is now 13 minutes out of date]

[eXOBeX]

A second hand dealer near me parks all his stock on the road. No tax discs, in a 1 hour waiting zone. So no one car park. As a result (well imo) 2 shops have had to close because customers couldn't park there.

Really anoys me, a reason why we had to change video shop. A liitle thing but why should he get away with it :tsktsk:

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Report him, then. DVLA even let you do it online!

[lexus boy]

These things work on the continent. Flashing the speed up does work, does make peope think. Also if every now and again they do stick a copper there would be good. That is a logical system, therefore will never happen.

Also wouldnt cost enough to be deemed a good project, although would of been better use of money than all the overhead signs that tell you there is an accident 300 miles away. Or tell you to slow down as there was an accident 3 days ago, but the forgot to remove display.

scorcher - no generally speed camera's not put up in accident black spots, there is a map somewhere which will put up when i get internet access at home up.

[Dodgy]

Government's empty promises

Speed cameras — a betrayal of public trust

The 1991 Road Traffic Act allowed the use of Speed Cameras to gain prosecutions in the UK for the first time. Their introduction was underpinned by extensive and ongoing publicity to link speed with accidents regardless of circumstance based on the simplistic and selective use of available evidence. When assurances were added that they would be sited only at accident blackspots, motoring organisations, the press and much of the motoring public put aside their apprehensions and acquiesced to the increasing use of these devices on the grounds that they would save lives.

Some cameras, sited as promised at junction or traffic light locations, have indeed resulted in localised falls in serious accidents. Taking this together with continued advances in both active and passive vehicle safety, improved vehicle security reducing 'joyriding' by unqualified drivers, continuing road improvements and little increase in road traffic, one would have expected an acceleration in the long term trend towards fewer deaths on the roads.

However, in 1995 UK road deaths and serious injuries fell only marginally. Hampshire, with no speed cameras, mirrored the national trend whereas speed camera laden Oxfordshire suffered a 30% increase in deaths.

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Association of British Drivers

The ABD's response

The ABD has always maintained that, despite the assurances, speed cameras would be placed in open road locations enforcing often inappropriate speed limits and serving little purpose other than to move the whole enforcement system away from the education of dangerous drivers and towards the arbitrary penalisation of safe and responsible citizens. These fears have been realised and the consequential undermining of driving skills has, the ABD believes, been a significant factor in this failure to improve Britain's road safety record.

Restrictions on this irresponsible abuse of Speed Cameras are now essential in order to ensure they are used in the manner originally promised and can thus make a positive rather than a negative contribution to road safety.

The ABD is campaigning for an amendment to the 1991 Act which would require clear labelling of all speed cameras with a sign 200yds in advance showing a valid justification for the camera placement and reminding drivers of the speed limit. An example would be — "Dangerous junction — Camera 200yds — 40mph". Cameras where no such justification exists should be removed.

A summary of our supporting arguments is contained in the attached question and answer sheet. We are sure that if these arguments are placed before Britain's motorists, a significant proportion will be justifyably angry that their trust in the authorities has been betrayed by the blatant misuse of speed cameras to the detriment of road safety.

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Strategy against Gatso cameras

To make members aware of Trunk Road camera locations by compiling maps.

To highlight to the authorities and the general public specific examples where cameras have been placed in open road locations with no safety justification in direct contravention of the promises made on their introduction. (See A3 locations described below)

To highlight the failure of cameras to significantly reduce overall National accident, injury or death rates.

To demonstrate the negative impact on driver skills derived from an unreasonable enforcement policy perpetrated by whatever means.

To specifically campaign against enforcement of the 70mph motorway limit by cameras.

To campaign for the restriction of cameras to clearly labelled accident black spots.

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Speed cameras — Questions & Answers

Q. Is the ABD against Speed Cameras altogether?

A. No. The ABD accepts the argument used to justify speed cameras on their introduction — that they can cut accidents by making reckless or incompetent drivers slow down for specific hazards which generate 'accident black spots'.

Q. How can you say that the authorities have 'abused' Speed Cameras?

Instead of being located in blackspots, the majority of cameras have been placed in open road locations where they serve no purpose other than to catch out drivers who are travelling at an appropriate speed for the conditions. A particularly worrying trend is the recent placement of cameras on the motorway network, currently Britain's safest roads despite almost universal disregard for the 70mph speed limit.

Q. How can you accuse the authorities of irresponsibility when they are just doing their job?

Even those cameras sited correctly are often not clearly labelled, thus denying the target group of drivers the opportunity to be educated into slowing down for hazards. This clearly demonstrates an irresponsible attitude on the part of the authorities - prosecutions are more important than road safety.

Q. But surely a safe driver never exceeds the speed limit?

A. The speed limit is supposed to be the maximum safe speed on that road and it is up to the driver to use his skill and judgement to set his speed appropriately to the conditions within it. On country lanes, shopping streets and housing estates this is usually the case, but on the open road and on many clear urban through roads, limits exist which bring this statement into disrepute. There are several reasons for this:

Open road limits have not been adjusted to take account of the modern car's vastly superior brakes, tyres and suspensions which have reduced stopping distances by up to 50% from those stated in the Highway Code.

Similar stretches of urban dual carriageway have limits varying from 30mph to 70mph, sometimes without logic at all but often because the limit is set for the worst rush hour conditions rather than light traffic.

Semi-urban clear road limits are reduced to or maintained at unrealistic levels for political reasons to allow decision makers to cover themselves against any blame for potential accidents.

Safe drivers who give the road conditions their full attention will inevitably break such arbitrary and inconsistent limits.

Q. We hear that 'speed kills', and so why isn't a general slowdown a good thing?

A. The authorities state that 'excessive speed is a contributory factor in a third of accidents'. But what about the other two thirds, and what is the main factor in this minority if speed is only 'contributory'? This missing factor, the real cause of most accidents, is failure by drivers to respond to hazards:

They fail to see them because they aren't looking.

They see the hazard but do not recognise it as such, and so fail to act.

They recognise the hazard but do not know how to respond in line with their own and their vehicle's ability.

Driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions is simply one consequence of these fundamental failings. To separate it out as a root cause in its own right is meaningless and dangerous.

Q How does this alleged camera abuse translate into more dangerous roads?

A1. Most obviously by distracting drivers' attention from the road. Since a driver cannot rely on keeping her licence by driving sensibly and appropriately, the first use of her senses must always be to locate the camera and then to ensure she passes it at the correct speed. Whilst doing this, she cannot give her full attention to other potential hazards, and may take unpredictable evasive action such as braking which creates a hazard for other road users.

A2 Perhaps more importantly by undermining his skills. A safe driver is one able to judge road conditions for himself. But sensible and necessary speed limits are rarely enforced, presumably because it is more cost effective to collect tickets from safe drivers on roads where the limit is inappropriately low. Such circumstances reward drivers for travelling at the speed they can get away with rather than what is safe, and even the most skilled driver will find himself losing his ability to judge road conditions properly. New drivers stand little chance of developing their skills to a level where they can cope with normal day to day hazards safely and intelligently.

Q. Isn't it wrong to break the law, and shouldn't those who do so be punished?

A. The ABD believes that laws are necessary but that they should be fair to all and serve a clear purpose. Enforcement to the letter of regulations which large numbers of responsible citizens regard as unreasonable and pointless can only lead to widespread disregard for the whole system of law and is a significant factor in the breakdown in standards of honesty in the Western world.

Q. Who are the ABD and why should their views be pulicised?

A.The ABD is made up of responsible drivers who believe the rights of the motorist are being undermined to an unacceptable degree. We all hold down full time jobs in the community and mostly have growing families, and so the time freely given to campaigning on behalf of ourselves and millions of other motorists is both limited and precious. Unlike some of our opponents, we are not inclined to climb trees, storm security offices or paint slogans on our naked bodies.

The published arguments in support of this erosion of rights have, in our opinion, been ill thought out and one sided at best, and have all too often been presented as fact and have gone unchallenged. Whilst we respect the rights of others to promote their views, we believe it is time to redress the balance.

The British public has a right to know that they have been conned into accepting Speed Cameras under false pretences.