I'm Thinking Of Leaving

[MacRS200]

Tony - don't let your heart rule your head!

The business will only work if the numbers are good. Anything less and the cash flow will kill it very quickly.

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Absolutely Mike, could not agree more.

You need to have a serious look at the numbers to see if you can make a living. No point in working your guts out and not earning any money.

There is this sort of "romantic image" attached to being self employed, it is nothing but hard work, lots of grief and worry. But that can be worth it if you make the dosh.

[Tony-Bones]

Tony - don't let your heart rule your head!

The business will only work if the numbers are good. Anything less and the cash flow will kill it very quickly.

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Absolutely Mike, could not agree more.

You need to have a serious look at the numbers to see if you can make a living. No point in working your guts out and not earning any money.

There is this sort of "romantic image" attached to being self employed, it is nothing but hard work, lots of grief and worry. But that can be worth it if you make the dosh.

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I understand about the 'romantic image' and that being self employed means there is no one to lean on. I just dont know? this area is without structure anywere in the UK, LOC and WIM has 'proved' that geometry can be mastered and in most cases the customer is in destress, cost is a factor for the customer but in most cases its the result, not the cost that matters. I had a LOC member come to me last Tuesday, he had a geometry and then wanted 4 tyres fitted, since now he was confident the wear issue is sorted the bill was £600. Last week i had another member come to me from Wales for 4 wheel balance cost £16. My dilemma is this:- I know people out there are in distress, and 'little' me has had the chance to deal with some of it, but the facts are on my own i could do more and do it better Example: Get the new clamps so that some 20/ 30 members who are waiting for me to be able to measure the 'lowerd club'. it pisses me of that i have to ask for somthing that 1: serves the customer 2: makes money.< but not a penny for me.

[MacRS200]

Tony

I think that we all understand your frustration at not being able to do the job as well and as fully as you know you could, IF you had the right equipment.

The question is still can you make money if you go it alone. Number crunching is required to see if it is viable. I am not trying to put you off just sort of playing Devil's advocate.

Stage one of "Wheels in Motion, the business" is getting a Business Plan sorted out. Others have offered, and I am more than willing to help you do a basic analysis of viability, that will establish whether it is worth while taking it further.

[OLI_EP3]

wow I'm impressed at the comments and free advice everyone has offered here.

Great community here (nice bit of fromage I know :))

I initially thought 'GREAT IDEA!!' go it alone and be free to run your business the way you want it to - but after the views and comments I've read from others, I would be inclined to take on board everthing thats been mentioned and the free offers of business plan etc and see what that tells you. I have a young boy and I wouldn't want to risk anything for him.

I think going it alone would be an amazing thing as to have someone with the knowledge to adjust the cars geomerty to individual tastes is what alot of driving enthusiasts want. Do the figures and I think you'd be a in a better position - you certainly wouldn't be any worse.

Im' sure other members and past custom can vouch for you on all the other car forums - owrd of mouth etc.

Just have to repeat myself and say that the response is really what this forum's about :) Especially from a third party point of view. nice one LOC'ers and please excuse me while I puke at waht I just said........

[Tony-Bones]

Tony

Stage one of "Wheels in Motion, the business" is getting a Business Plan sorted out. Others have offered, and I am more than willing to help you do a basic analysis of viability, that will establish whether it is worth while taking it further.

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Ok how do i proceed. To date i should be able to ' affiliate' with another company ( body shop ) so the premises is not a problem, and i will have a partner who has 'NO' capital at all

[Mr Morse]

It's back to the numbers Tony -

1) Initial start-up costs. I presume you will be going to see a small business advisor because you'll need to borrow money to get the thing kicked off. Alliance & Leicester offer a good service.

2) Incorporation of a company with limited liability. This is easy and can be done for £100 buying a company off the shelf

3) Revenue forecast (i.e. how many geos per month to give a total monthly revenue). You'll need this for the financial people and you must be able to show that the figures you present are objective and realistic.

4) Expenses - loans, rent, salaries, equipment, utilities, phone, stationery, tea and coffee (list every last item you can think of no matter how small, it all mounts up).

5) Plug the numbers into the spreadsheet and calculate your net.

[MacRS200]

Like Mike says it back to numbers.

Don't forget to add costs for book keeping, accountants fees, depreciation on any equipment you buy.

If that looks good then move on to the next bit.

Formation of a company is the easy, I did one last year on-line. Cost about £60 and it was a name of my choice and took about 24hrs. I would advise you to go down the route of Ltd rather than a partnership. Go for at least 1000 £1 shares and issue only 4, one for you, one for your Mrs same for your partner, and make sure that the Mrs pays the £1 by cheque into the company account. It's got to do with profit share and tax later on.

If you are introducing capital and your partner is not this can be handled by the money being shown in your Directors Account. But be careful as you are taking all the financial risk.

Last piece of advice is try to avoid providing security for an monies borrowed.

[Tony-Bones]

Like Mike says it back to numbers.

Don't forget to add costs for book keeping, accountants fees, depreciation on any equipment you buy.

If that looks good then move on to the next bit.

Formation of a company is the easy, I did one last year on-line. Cost about £60 and it was a name of my choice and took about 24hrs. I would advise you to go down the route of Ltd rather than a partnership. Go for at least 1000 £1 shares and issue only 4, one for you, one for your Mrs same for your partner, and make sure that the Mrs pays the £1 by cheque into the company account. It's got to do with profit share and tax later on.

If you are introducing capital and your partner is not this can be handled by the money being shown in your Directors Account. But be careful as you are taking all the financial risk.

Last piece of advice is try to avoid providing security for an monies borrowed.

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Reading this now i know i'm out of my depth....i think i need to 'print' this topic and think very hard about the future....but i cannot let this go!

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Destiny? jump....dont jump.

[Mr Morse]

Don't let the fear of numbers put you off, I do this stuff month in month out and it becomes second nature. BUT having the right numbers are the most important part of a sucessful business.

If you can have a long hard look at your revenue and expense forecast I can help you out with the rest. Include every last thing you can think of - even the small expenses have a nasty habit of growing out of control :

I honestly think you have a viable proposition with this business; it's somewhat specialised but so are many others and with your excellent reputation there is no reason why the business will not work. Let's get the numbers right first!

[marx]

Tony - don't let your heart rule your head!

The business will only work if the numbers are good. Anything less and the cash flow will kill it very quickly.

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Thing is Mike this area involves no product so is near to 100% profit - buisness costs, wages and so on.... I have a chance to lease a workshop and become affiliated with them, this will reduce set-up costs big time and i can use them as an established buisness to lease equipment...... by the way, thanks for your# i will phone you 'one to one' soon, but for now this topic on line could help more people than just me.

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You have the respect of all the Lexus people your knowledge is vast as is your experience, I say go alone, but if could be made redundent so you could get some sort of budget to back your new venture it would be even better.

[MacRS200]

Again to back up what Mike says it's not a leap of faith it's taking a measured risk, that's what business is.

Back to numbers, you provide them Mike will crunch them. I feel that there is a market there and have thought about it before.

Oh and by the way Wheels In Motion Ltd has already been registered to a company in Sheffield that sells cars. Just done a quick check on Companies House

[Mr Morse]

I'm sure that with your reputation for going the extra mile, the LOC admin wouldn't have any problem giving you status as an Authorised Trader. Same on our sister site (Toyota Owners Club) where there are many more members in need of a first class Geo.

And take it from there.....

MR2 OC

Skyline OC

You may even want to do a BM

[lexus boy]

Before you go it alone look at getting contracts in. They are the ones with the money.

So such people as TDi, woudl they be willing to sub out to you for alingnment, and other such people. Also looking at maybe car companies, or even fleet's?

Make sure you do proper research, it may not be too great to search for provisional contracts before you leave work, but will help you a lot.

[star a]

life is just too short m8, as recents events have shown, if it's what you think you should do, then do it, otherwise you will always regret not trying. whats the worse case scenario if it goes wrong, and could you be happy in that scenario, or perhaps a part-time approach would be better, you already have the premises sorted, the knowledge and the ambition, perhaps you could stay in your current job, and do some wheel-work on the weekends or in your spare time, and see how your appointment books start to fill before you take the plunge.

[tdiplc]

I agree with Mr Morse.

Some people use you because of your expertise, and some people use you because your prices are (were?) exceptionally low.

Those in the latter catagory will drop out when you have to charge suffiently to make a profit on top of the business expenses.

It's a big decision Tony. The UK economy is on the edge of a precepice, and the aftermarket car industry is suffering badly. I reckon we are entering a phase where only the strong and those with very low overheads will survive.

I still reckon that joining with someone like TDi would be worth considering if the deal is right. At least your risk will be reduced (and you can still feed the kids!)

Best of luck with whatever you decide Tony :)

[Tony-Bones]

I agree with Mr Morse.

Some people use you because of your expertise, and some people use you because your prices are (were?) exceptionally low.

Those in the latter catagory will drop out when you have to charge suffiently to make a profit on top of the business expenses.

It's a big decision Tony. The UK economy is on the edge of a precepice, and the aftermarket car industry is suffering badly. I reckon we are entering a phase where only the strong and those with very low overheads will survive.

I still reckon that joining with someone like TDi would be worth considering if the deal is right. At least your risk will be reduced (and you can still feed the kids!)

Best of luck with whatever you decide Tony  :)

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Thanks.... I built WIM as a sort of 'proving' ground for me, but never did i think people would come so far for a £16 job. over the last 18 months i have watched the interst grow and shook many a hand via the site and all for STS, my 'site my 'customer' my 'work' out of hours....In fact it was 'you' TDI that made me sit back and think, when you phoned me and asked me to set-up the 'Monster' i was 'gob smacked', I had just set-up the lead car for D/A a Honda S2000 for the nerburge ring<( wrong spelling ) and then you phoned for me to set-up the TDI Missile Monster, which i cannot do reason being..... lack of equipment. Thanks for all the replies and 'please ' keep them coming everyone.

[Dave-Ellen]

It's a big decision Tony. The UK economy is on the edge of a precepice, and the aftermarket car industry is suffering badly. I reckon we are entering a phase where only the strong and those with very low overheads will survive.

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Not our experience........

If you offer good value and good customer service you will do OK.

Zee & I started last year and doing it part time have seen the customer base grow at a incredible rate.......(the only continent we have not cracked is India) and are now in the position were we are able to commision bespoke parts and embark on groundbreaking new projects.

I'll be along with my car soon and will be more than happy to pass customers who've had suspension work done /questions re alignment to you.

[tdiplc]

It's a big decision Tony. The UK economy is on the edge of a precepice, and the aftermarket car industry is suffering badly. I reckon we are entering a phase where only the strong and those with very low overheads will survive.

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Not our experience........

If you offer good value and good customer service you will do OK.

Zee & I started last year and doing it part time have seen the customer base grow at a incredible rate.......(the only continent we have not cracked is India) and are now in the position were we are able to commision bespoke parts and embark on groundbreaking new projects.

I'll be along with my car soon and will be more than happy to pass customers who've had suspension work done /questions re alignment to you.

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That's good to hear Dave, and long may it continue :). When you start from zero there is generally only one way you can go (for a while anyway).

My point was that (according to the established manufacturers and retailers) the aftermarket industry is now in decline for the first time in a decade, along side many other industries in the UK, so any move away from a secure environment carries a higher risk today than it did in recent times.

Good luck to you Tony, let me know if you need any help from me :)

[Tony-Bones]

Its clear the advice here covers and forwarns of future problems regarding set-up and i cannot take this onboard untill i get nearer to the event, i will call on you for the 'business' plan. What is evident is a companies attitude, that 'extra mile' and the customers desire for hand on heart 'trust'. Prolex and tdiplc have earned that and i feel WIM follows close behind, the example with Mr Morse was an example for 'myself'...? I couldn't do the geom but mike asked for the set-up figures which i wrote and pm him, when mike had the date for the set-up at TSL i sent him my home # and said 'any problems' phone me, and they did we had a 6 hour telefone, what Mike doesn't know is for that date i booked the day off work for him, 'my customer, my set-up, my problem. Like prolex and tdiplc for me that unseen extra mile is satisfied by the 'handshake' at the end. I must add for the 'Moderators' i make nothing from any of the work i do for any LOC member, other than my day to day wage.

[MacRS200]

I used to work with an old boy who would say "is it for a customer or a friend" when someone asked him to do a job on their car.

The thing is when you are making a living on your own doing geo's you cannot take a day off to give advice to a competitor on someones set up. Knowledge becomes power which is money in your pocket. You have the knowledge which equals money :D

[Tony-Bones]

I used to work with an old boy who would say "is it for a customer or a friend" when someone asked him to do a job on their car.

The thing is when you are making a living on your own doing geo's you cannot take a day off to give advice to a competitor on someones set up. Knowledge becomes power which is money in your pocket. You have the knowledge which equals money :D

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True....very true. but if i was on my own no one at work could question the calls, in addition i always learn somthing even if its only the way another company conducts themselves TSL i must admit were good. I am :D but feel i want to display me? when we worked on your car on the Sunday i felt so much more relaxed, yes we had problems but i had a chance to 'stand back' and think, that days unpaid work felt 'Good', For a few hours we was on our own.

[MacRS200]

I used to work with an old boy who would say "is it for a customer or a friend" when someone asked him to do a job on their car.

The thing is when you are making a living on your own doing geo's you cannot take a day off to give advice to a competitor on someones set up. Knowledge becomes power which is money in your pocket. You have the knowledge which equals money :D

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True....very true. but if i was on my own no one at work could question the calls, in addition i always learn somthing even if its only the way another company conducts themselves TSL i must admit were good. I am :D but feel i want to display me? when we worked on your car on the Sunday i felt so much more relaxed, yes we had problems but i had a chance to 'stand back' and think, that days unpaid work felt 'Good', For a few hours we was on our own.

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Yep know what you mean.