Dr Bones Riddle Me This.....

[Fargo]

right, persuant to my previous thread here

ive now adjusted the front drivers side coilover to how bazza has his (210mm from centre of bottom nut to bottom of the spring seat) and now its lower than it was before and scuffs liek theres no tomorrow.

So Mr Bones, i remeber we discussed this on sunday,, you said that if i uncompress a spring then the car will be higher due to the fact that the spring is pushing the car away from the wheel..

seems to me that this is not the case..

so which is it,, compress he springs and ride height is lower or compress the springs and ride height is higher...

what say you....or anybody..

[Dave-Ellen]

Paul,

The only thing I can think of is the offset on your wheels maybe being different ?

I'm not sure what Barries are BTW.

Can get the Prolex super techy to have a butchas if you want :winky:

[MacRS200]

No Paul what we said was, compress the spring and you put more pre-load on which means the car compresses the spring less so the car is higher. Shorter spring higher and harder ride :D

So if you want a softer ride take some pre-load off (lengthen the spring) and extend the strut to lift up again. Make sense

[Fargo]

not afte a softer ride, i like it firm...

just want to sort out the scuffing..

i have had a quick chat with Mat C and ive got it a bti clearer in my head.

basically raise the lock nut higher along the threaded 'shaft' this means the spring is pushing the car higher..

dave,, it may well be a case of differing wheel sizes... guess i wont know till bazza comes back from hol's

[MacRS200]

not afte a softer ride, i like it firm...

just want to sort out the scuffing..

i have had a quick chat with Mat C and ive got it a bti clearer in my head.

basically raise the lock nut higher along the threaded 'shaft' this means the spring is pushing the car higher..

dave,, it may well be a case of differing wheel sizes... guess i wont know till bazza comes back from hol's

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Yup that's it and the ride will be firmer cos some of the "early" spring compression is taken up be lock ring.

A spring usually gets harder to compress as it gets shorter so the rate varies with the amount it is compressed. e.g. put a ton load on a spring it will compress say 20mm, add another ton and it will only go another say 15mm.

[Tony-Bones]

"Fact is this!"....... I dont know the reason i went in on Sunday unpaid and worked on the car with you and Neil for "free" is because i have never set-up coilovers before and i wanted to learn, anyone who says they know it all is a liar, even my area i cannot experience every example with every car ever made? logic would suggest "load" the coil "lift" the car, all that read this thread who are thinking of lowering your car what will you buy...."lowering" srings!

[MacRS200]

"Fact is this!"....... I dont know the reason i went in on Sunday unpaid and worked on the car with you and Neil for "free" is because i have never set-up coilovers before and i wanted to learn, anyone who says they know it all is a liar, even my area i cannot experience every example with every car ever made? logic would suggest "load" the coil "lift" the car, all that read this thread who are thinking of lowering your car what will you buy...."lowering" srings!

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Fair comment Tony Why did the first bit go wrong, still trying to work that out

[Mr Morse]

"Fact is this!"....... I dont know the reason i went in on Sunday unpaid and worked on the car with you and Neil for "free" is because i have never set-up coilovers before and i wanted to learn, anyone who says they know it all is a liar, even my area i cannot experience every example with every car ever made? logic would suggest "load" the coil "lift" the car, all that read this thread who are thinking of lowering your car what will you buy...."lowering" srings!

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I don't follow - my lowered ride on coilovers is MUCH harder (plus the odd knock) than with the previous springs setup

[Tony-Bones]

"Fact is this!"....... I dont know the reason i went in on Sunday unpaid and worked on the car with you and Neil for "free" is because i have never set-up coilovers before and i wanted to learn, anyone who says they know it all is a liar, even my area i cannot experience every example with every car ever made? logic would suggest "load" the coil "lift" the car, all that read this thread who are thinking of lowering your car what will you buy...."lowering" srings!

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Fair comment Tony Why did the first bit go wrong, still trying to work that out

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Me too I just dont know. In my mind i have adjusted the "damper" the "coil" up and down and still i dont know why...."Bazza...Mat"...little help

[MacRS200]

To fill the picture we wanted to drop 20mm and measure the difference in geo.

So we started to shorten the strut by winding it down on the threads into the the socket at the bottom that attaches to the wishbone. It locked up so we measured the spring length and slackened the spring off and wound down 20mm on the strut length. Then compressed the spring back to original length, the car was then UP 30mm.

[Tony-Bones]

To fill the picture we wanted to drop 20mm and measure the difference in geo.

So we started to shorten the strut by winding it down on the threads into the the socket at the bottom that attaches to the wishbone. It locked up so we measured the spring length and slackened the spring off and wound down 20mm on the strut length. Then compressed the spring back to original length, the car was then UP 30mm.

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Thats what i dont understand, wind "down" the strut....return the spring load and rate to as was, then the car looked like a 4x4! extend the spring lower the car via the coil you would then loose the loading and drive a row boat...any advise

[Mr Singh]

If u wind the platform down, the spring is less compressed when u jack it up..

My front springs when the car is jacked up move about 2"s.... Did i hear someone say Helper Springs?

[Tony-Bones]

If u wind the platform down, the spring is less compressed when u jack it up..

My front springs when the car is jacked up move about 2"s.... Did i hear someone say Helper Springs?

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NAAH i'm still lost..... "before" we lowerd the body we measured the length of the spring, then we lowerd the body 40mm which relaxed the spring - 40mm, now to keep the same rate we returned the coil to "as was" then the car looked like dog after a size nine kicked its arse?

[Scorpion]

Is the lower spring seat on the TTE's fixed or adjustable?

Do you compress the spring from the top/bottom?

Are they 2 or 3 way adjustable?.....3's are a pain in the A**e to get right for your style of driving town/m/ways/fast A-B rds,usually used for track cars!!!!

The settings on top of the mount will only control the rate at which the damper moves up/down.

[Dave-Ellen]

bazza is out of the country............Mat C is away working with no i/net connection...........this may explain there absence from the debate

[MacRS200]

Ok between Tony and me we have worked out where we went wrong.

Under pressure of time we went for it and had the car on the ramp jacked up with the wishbones on blocks, then we measured to spring length. Next we decided to take the load off the springs and jacked the car under the body to give more play on the springs to drop it down on the struts.

Then the struts "locked up" so we loosened off the springs to allow the strut to turn, THEN we put the springs back up to the loaded length. No wonder the car looked like a roadster.

Sorted

[Tony-Bones]

Is the lower spring seat on the TTE's fixed or adjustable?

Do you compress the spring from the top/bottom?

Are they 2 or 3 way adjustable?.....3's are a pain in the A**e to get right for your style of driving town/m/ways/fast A-B rds,usually used for track cars!!!!

The settings on top of the mount will only control the rate at which the damper moves up/down.

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Well Pete, we lowerd then...after that i..said, then Neil said, and i said no, he said yes, then we was "lost" here it all went "tits up". Neil has sent a me pm tonight and i think we know what went wrong.

[Tony-Bones]

Ok between Tony and me we have worked out where we went wrong.

Under pressure of time we went for it and had the car on the ramp jacked up with the wishbones on blocks, then we measured to spring length. Next we decided to take the load off the springs and jacked the car under the body to give more play on the springs to drop it down on the struts.

Then the struts "locked up" so we loosened off the springs to allow the strut to turn, THEN we put the springs back up to the loaded length. No wonder the car looked like a roadster.

Sorted

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"Pressure" of time was an issue, a geom on any Lex is 1.5 hours on a Sunday i only have 3 hours total time All in all "We learnt" a lot on that day and even more after, now we know what can go wrong and why. in a perfect world there is no need for examples unless you need them to correct a problem.

[Bazza]

right,  persuant to my previous thread here

ive now adjusted the front drivers side coilover to how bazza has his (210mm from centre of bottom nut to bottom of the spring seat) and now its lower than it was before and scuffs liek theres no tomorrow.

So Mr Bones, i remeber we discussed this on sunday,, you said that if i uncompress a spring then the car will be higher due to the fact that the spring is pushing the car away from the wheel..

seems to me that this is not the case..

so which is it,, compress he springs and ride height is lower or compress the springs and ride height is higher...

what say you....or anybody..

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dont worry paul i asked the same question

think of not compressing the spring !

what you are doing is moving the spring up and down, in relation to the shock absorber, the spring is tensioned to hold the car up, when you undo/do up the adjusters you are moving the springs position not compressing it

so the lower the adjuster is, the lower the position of the spring will be in relation to the shock absorber, thus lowering the car

the length of the spring will remain the same length, as the weight applied will not have changed

i still dont have scrapeing, on 7.5/42 offset , maybe your camber is out, possibly the reverse of what is expected so the top of the wheel is sticking out rather than in, maybe explaining the scrapeing you are getting

[Fargo]

that explained it well bazza,

would yo alos agree though that if i raise the spring up then thay also stiffen up..

my offset,, hmm ive forgotten, where would i found out, im sure its onthe alloy somewhere. my tyres though are 225/40/18's

[Tony-Bones]

that explained it well bazza,

would yo alos agree though that if i raise the spring up then thay also stiffen up..

my offset,,  hmm ive forgotten, where would i found out, im sure its onthe alloy somewhere. my tyres though are 225/40/18's

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No? lower the coil body..? 10mm, then raise the spring 10mm then you would have a higher spring rate but with the same trim height.

[Fargo]

were talking about the TTE kit here, not the Apexi kit,, go get ya own thread lol

[Tony-Bones]

were talking about the TTE kit here, not the Apexi kit,,  go get ya own thread lol

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"Calm down"

[Fargo]

:P :arrrggg-matey:

[MacRS200]

To reserect this thread

Decided the back was too hard as it was jumpin off the ground, not good.

Jacked the car up and measured the spring length with no load on, slackened the spring off till it was free, e.g. no compression and measured the "free length" to get the amount of compression on the spring. The measures were 190mm compressed (no Load) and 225mm free length.

Wound the spring back up to 200mm e.g. 10mm longer than before and about a 1/3rd less pre-load. Thinks the car will drop 10mm so lengthend the strut 10mm to compensate. Back on the wheel and off the jack car is 10mm higher. No prob strut back down 10mm.

Other side did the same, 200mm on the spring but left the strut alone, back on the wheels and the car has dropped 10mm and the wheel is tucked under the arch, so extend the strut 10mm and back to normal.

Before I started I measured from the bottom of the top strut flange to the middle of the wishbone bolt both were 500mm now I got 500mm one side and 510mm on the other but the wheel centre to arch is the same with the car on the wheels.

What is going on?