Rx300 Lurching

[m'ladys husband]

I have had Mr Settle call me this morning.

It seems the fix is out in USA and they rate it well.

It's being tested at LGB in one of their cars and if they are happy with it they will want to put it in ours shortly.

The point they are missing is my wife does not want the damn thing anymore............we want our money back!

I am promised that Mr Settle will call me mid/end next week when he has driven the car with the upgraded software himself.

It should then be a simple job to remap our ecus I am told.

Interesting concept when many dealerships still say it is an unknown issue.

OK, if we sijmply all lie down and accept an upgraded ECU is an answer, what about all the years, two plus in our case, of bull***t we have suffered?

Unimpressed to say the least.

Michael.

Seeing how well the RX has held its price (not) next time I'm going to buy nothing newer than a 3 year old car, that will hopefully loose less...

.....ok that is my argument with the wife for getting a Porsche 911, dont really want to spend much more than I spent on the RX so that roughly equates to a '03 996....with hopefully a less steep depreciation curve...and just a weeeeee bit faster...

Get a nice Aston MArtin.

A good late DB7 will not cost anymore than a porker - loads more street cred and (somewhat biased) I would suggest a much more pleasant car to own!

Just back from ten days away in Spain in ours and we had a great track day with it.

Its a British car you know, not a foreign import!!!!!

[Damian]

It's being tested at LGB in one of their cars and if they are happy with it they will want to put it in ours shortly.

I am promised that Mr Settle will call me mid/end next week when he has driven the car with the upgraded software himself.

It should then be a simple job to remap our ecus I am told.

Interesting concept when many dealerships still say it is an unknown issue.

Hi Michael,

as you know I had heard about this from my dealer almost 3 weeks ago now. What's been happening in that time?

Whilst I appreciate the time and personal involvement from Mr Settle taking the car out for an hour or so as some owners have not detected the issue as it requires certain conditions to show it. e.g. driving in town is more likely to show this but a blast down the A316 will not prove anything. I want to get it into my car ASAP as I've been waiting for 18 months, not quite as long as you but this is MORE THAN LONG ENOUGH LEXUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've waited as I put my trust in Lexus based on their reputation. In hindsight it's looking like I should have never trusted Lexus to resolve the issue and simply rejected the car immediately within the first week of ownership. I believe only I and other actual owners can say whether the fix is true or not. Or to be fairer to Lexus someone who also has previous experience of being able to replicate the conditions that this occurs in. I will be able to tell in less than 2 minutes whether it's fixed as I'm able to create the set of conditions with a success rate of 100%.

Being fair again to Lexus I guess they want to ensure there are no by products to the fix. But, who is best qualified to ensure this has been done other than the engineers who create the mapping in the first place? Surely this has already been done?

My gut feeling is that this is not going to fix the problem. I also have a suspicion that it will change some other element of the change pattern/characteristics of the gearbox etc. This is mainly as a result of why was it their in the first place.

As you've pointed out in previous postings in this thread the new 350 has a supposedly smoother box. What kicked them into imprving the box and what changes have been made. is this the same box but with revised mapping or something else. Was there a fundamental flaw in the original design of the box that no mapping was ever going to improve?

Looking forward to the outcome this week so I can get my car booked in at last!

Thanks and br

D

[m'ladys husband]

Hi Damian,

Yes, all very valid comments.

I was under the impression that the owners who had initiated this 'fix' would be Beta testing it, thats what I was told by the techies from Belgium................ must all have short memories (no pun intended).

I guess LGB want to make sure it has no other demons in it as a by product but when you consider that the testing staff belong to the same organisation that said 'what problem' for so long, one does start to wonder.

We have no choice but to wait until they let us have a version to try and as you say, we will know straight away if its fixed or not.

then, if it is fixed, what avbout some form of compensation for all the trouble and battling we have had top do to get this far.

I am with you on the rejection of the car.

I wish I had just dumped it on the dealers forecourt a year ago.

So much hassle where there should be none.

If we had bought a car for £10k you may expect some interesting little peculiarities but not on a £39k prestigious marque of car.

Lexus owner now but NEVER again.

Shame as I really quite fancy a new 450 version of the GS300 for my day to day car.

Off to the Aston Auction in Newport Pagnell on Saturday and maybe buy a classic basket case, at least I know where my money will be going and to good effect!

Best regards.

Michael.

[eXOBeX]

Are you able to recreate the fault even on a freshly-reset ECU, which is what you'll have? Or does the RX take time to learn your driving style, then bugger it up ?

[Damian]

Are you able to recreate the fault even on a freshly-reset ECU, which is what you'll have? Or does the RX take time to learn your driving style, then bugger it up ?

I am. Mine was reset recently and I didn;t notice any difference. I have yet to be convinced what benefit the learning gearbox provides.

You would have thought by now it would have learnt how to select a gear for example rather than selecting say selecting 3rd from 2nd then 2nd again then 3rd again within a second or two for example when accelerating gently and then lifting off slightly, oh and then there's the occassion when your foot is on the floor and the car goes to sleep for what feels like a lifetime before it agreeing to kick down and go.

The only advanced element of the gearbox I have found is when going down hill and it changes down for engine breaking when needed.

br

D

[m'ladys husband]

Are you able to recreate the fault even on a freshly-reset ECU, which is what you'll have? Or does the RX take time to learn your driving style, then bugger it up ?

I am. Mine was reset recently and I didn;t notice any difference. I have yet to be convinced what benefit the learning gearbox provides.

You would have thought by now it would have learnt how to select a gear for example rather than selecting say selecting 3rd from 2nd then 2nd again then 3rd again within a second or two for example when accelerating gently and then lifting off slightly, oh and then there's the occassion when your foot is on the floor and the car goes to sleep for what feels like a lifetime before it agreeing to kick down and go.

The only advanced element of the gearbox I have found is when going down hill and it changes down for engine breaking when needed.

br

D

Yep, just like my wifes does for both of us as well!

Good to know its so damn intelligent.

Michael.

[m'ladys husband]

Hi everyone in waiting for good news on the lurch issue.

Guess what?

Another week has passed by and the promised call from Mr Settle at the end of the week never came.

Maybe the fix for the ECU is no good after all?

Perhaps someone from Lexus will let us know!

Michael.

[NFernandes]

Hi everyone in waiting for good news on the lurch issue.

Guess what?

Another week has passed by and the promised call from Mr Settle at the end of the week never came.

Maybe the fix for the ECU is no good after all?

Perhaps someone from Lexus will let us know!

Michael.

Hi Michael and Everybody,

Everyday this seems more and more a Tragicomedy bad movie script...

My lawyer will deliver the papers to open the case today, after we try every way to solve this problem in a civilized way, that Lexus dont seem to understand.

I hope that Portuguese Courts speed up this process and the winning that I will have here prove to be useful to your cases.

I will be posting news as the process keeps moving. I urge you to fill up against Lexus to. We all have to gain in having various legal process running agains the same brand for the same problem. Maybe that way they learn that the customers aren´t so passive and arrogant as they are.

Many Luck to us all!

Cheers,

NF

[m'ladys husband]

Hi All,

Good luck NF with your case.

Do keep us informed of progress.

Just had an email from Steve Settles assistant telling me that hey are awaiting feedback on a test car they are running (why not use us as promised I wonder????) and that I "will be called later this or early next week with further information with respect to our car".

We shall see!

Michael.

[Damian]

Wish where I worked time passed as slowly as it appears to at Lexus GB, I'd be able to get so much more done in the day!

Thought this might be of interest, as if you need reminding but perhaps someone does :winky: ! Hope you don't mind me collating some of your posts Michael.

June 10th 2005:

I have again spoken to my dealer this afternoon and he tells me that they are now taking the situation more seriously and that I can expect some reaction early next week. About time too!

June 15th 2005:

Had a call last night from Steve Settle who is the head of Lexus GB about our lurching RX300. He has promised to talk to Japan and come back to me early next week.

June 27th 2005:

...confirm that Mr Steve Settle from Lexus GB is on the case for us.

I have just come off the phone with him and have been promised that an engineer from Lexus GB, another from Lexus Belgium and possibly one from Japan will call me to arrange a test drive in my wife's car to actually experience the problem for themselves.

July 11th 2005:

Have had a call from Lexus GB tech department this morning to arrange a visit to try the car. Apparently though, this will be a bit longer than expected as the Belgian team have been told not to come across due to the London bombings!

The chap I spoke to was a little surprised when I told him that there were a number of cars with the same issue which could also be available for them to try. He actually told me that as far as they were aware ours was the only car with the issue as none of the dealerships have reported that anyone else is experiencing this.

July 14th 2005:

I have just had a call from a gentleman called Steve from customer relations dept at LGB and we are to have a visit by the technical team at our dealership, Lexus Southampton, next Wednesday at 09.00.

July 21st 2005:

Had a good meeting yesterday with LGB and two Belgian techies.

They are certainly taking the matter seriously now.

They drove the car and agreed that there was a problem. (Honestly!!!!!)

They also had a laptop device connected to the ECU which I guess recorded some data when the lurch happened.

August 4th 2005:

After a very frustrating 300 mile drive in the car on Tuesday, I called LGB and spoke with Steve Settles office and was promised a call back. This duly happened this morning and I am assured that as a result of our efforts Lexus Japan are now looking seriously at the issue - it seems that they now have 10 dealerships who have had customer complaints on the matter

This is the magic number to get the ball rolling.

I am told that there is a meeting on the 18th August at which time Lexus Japan will decide what and if anything is to be done about it.

There may well be no action taken as it is still called a characteristic of the vehicle. IF they decide to do something it won't happen quickly, as being a manufacturer they will have to have any modifications type approved and tested by the relevant authorities.

August 31st 2005:

I have this morning received a letter from Lexus GB which I copy below for you all to see -

"We have today received confirmation from our counterparts within the Lexus European Division and the Toyota Motor Corporation that a commitment has been made to investigate the development of an enhanced ECU for the RX 300.

The initial information we have received states that our engineering division will build and test a new ECU, as the current ECU does not appear to have sufficient memory to make the anticipated adjustments. There will then be testing carried out in the UK before final approval for a new unit. At present this is likely to be by late October, early November. However, it will take in the region of six months to have full production of these revised parts due to the homologation process, something which is beyond our control.

Should you be happy to do so, we would very much appreciate your own continued involvment and cooperation with the survey team. We will also be seeking the involvment of other customers happy to lend their support to this project. With your permission we will be in contact with you in the near future regarding this matter.

Please be advised that Steve Settle, Director Lexus (GB) Ltd is fully aware of this current situation and will be continually advised of any developments.

Thank you once again for your co-operation and patience shown to date."

October 12th 2005:

My wifes car is being borrowed by LGB for a day or two next week when they want to try out a new version of the ECU in it.

October 25th 2005:

LGB had my wifes car for two days last week and say that they were successful in programming a new ECU which quote "I can confirm that having tested the effectiveness of the proposed counter measure “ecu” the survey team concluded that it successfully reduced the level of the symptoms to an acceptable level."

December 23rd 2005:

Just to say that all is ongoing with the lurch scenario. I have been contacted again by LGB and assured that they are on track with a fix...

February 22nd 2006:

I was assured that the fix should be available in March or early April.

March 23rd 2006:

I have as expected been fobbed off again and told that we are awaiting feedback.

Therefore, last night I telephoned Toyota and spoke to their office about the situation for nearly twenty minutes. They took full details of the car and chassis number and I requested a meeting in Japan.

This morning I received an email telling me that they had contaced LGB and asked them to investigate!!!

April 3rd 2006:

I have just this morning called TMC again. I have had an email exchange with them in as much as they told me by email after my first call to them 'all will be sorted immediately'.

April 4th 2006:

Having been assured by TMC Japan that I would be contacted by senior staff from LGB - a big fat nothing!

Visited our dealer yesterday afternoon.

They were very helpful in that they were amazed we still had the issue and that LGB had left us alone.

They thought this should have been sorted out a year ago by a swap out or similar.

April 5th 2006:

Had a message on my office answer phone this morning from the dealership saleman who has been told by the LGB area manager not to get involved with the problem!

April 10th 2006:

I have had a chat with LGB and am told that here are a few units (New ECU's) coming into the UK in the next week or two.

April 13th 2006:

The gearbox fix is promised for late May now - it just gets a longer lead time each time I ask about it.

May 3rd 2006:

I have asked for a face to face but my dealer principal says they will see us in court.

May 5th 2006:

I have had Mr Settle call me this morning.

It seems the fix is out in USA and they rate it well.

It's being tested at LGB in one of their cars and if they are happy with it they will want to put it in ours shortly.

I am promised that Mr Settle will call me mid/end next week when he has driven the car with the upgraded software himself.

May 15th 2006:

Another week has passed by and the promised call from Mr Settle at the end of the week never came.

May 16th 2006:

Just had an email from Steve Settles assistant telling me that hey are awaiting feedback on a test car they are running (why not use us as promised I wonder????) and that I "will be called later this or early next week with further information with respect to our car".

[SP00NY]

RX300 Lurching

Can anyone tell me if this applies to both MKI and MKII models or specific years.

I *was* about to purchase a 2001/2002 model but have been put off after reading this thread.

Slowing down to say 5mph and then accelerating with nothing happening for 2 seconds, then a lurch, how very dangerous.

Andy

[m'ladys husband]

Wish where I worked time passed as slowly as it appears to at Lexus GB, I'd be able to get so much more done in the day!

Hi Damian,

Thank you for putting that little lot together - what fun we all have with our Lexus RX's!

I had nearly forgotten about it as I NEVER hear anything when I am promised.

I actually emailed Mr Settles PA yesterday to thank her for her email saying Mr Settle would call me late last week or early this........I just keep on waiting.

I have actually told her that the car is a lemon and I want my money back!

It seems to me that now that the new model is out they just do not care anymore.

Cynical?

Moi?

Never.

Best regards.

Michael.

RX300 Lurching

Can anyone tell me if this applies to both MKI and MKII models or specific years.

I *was* about to purchase a 2001/2002 model but have been put off after reading this thread.

Slowing down to say 5mph and then accelerating with nothing happening for 2 seconds, then a lurch, how very dangerous.

Andy

Hi Andy,

From our experience, it appears to only affect the mark 2's.

The mark one that we had was a good car, a bit of an acceleration lag at about 45-50 but if you kicked it down to third it was never a problem.

My wife wishes I had never done her the favour of changing from the mark one to either of the two mark twos she has had!

The mark one is a good bet but as far as we can all make out, the mark twos all seem to suffer from this problem especially if you drive it as it is advertised - a high performance SUV.

Personally, I would buy the mark one or a good Porsche Cayenne S - if you can afford the fuel bills and front tyre wear that my son has to put up with on his Cayenne, these seem to be the only down side with the porker.

Michael.

Hello everyone.

The following just in at 09.39 this morning from LGB............

I was speaking about your vehicle to Steve Settle

yesterday. He is planning to call you as soon as he has substantial

feedback from our technical colleagues who are trialling a vehicle with a

test part. Apologies for the delay, but Steve will get back to you soon.

More promises!

Michael.

Hello everyone.

The following just in at 09.39 this morning from LGB............

I was speaking about your vehicle to Steve Settle

yesterday. He is planning to call you as soon as he has substantial

feedback from our technical colleagues who are trialling a vehicle with a

test part. Apologies for the delay, but Steve will get back to you soon.

More promises!

Michael.

[m'ladys husband]

Hello to all Lurchers,

Just when you thought I had gone away and boought a different make of vehicle I am back again.

You may not believe this but Lexus Southampton are to re map our ECU on Wednesday morning...........honestly!

I will let you know what its like in a day or so.

I am told it is significantly better but as this was from LGB who, you will remember, have spent the last two years saying there is no problem, I fear that this may require fuirther investigation.

Has anyone else been offered the chance to have a REMAP ecu yet?

Best regards.

Michael.

[m'ladys husband]

Hi everyone,

We have had the car ECU remapped this morning.

It took about an hour and a half to do.

So far nothing to report other than the car is different.

We have both driven it and each think it feels different - is it better? - not sure yet.

I will wait until we have done a few hundred miles in it and see if anything shows up.

We are planning to go to Scotland in the next few days so will probably take the Lexus rather than the DB7 so as to give it a good long run and therefore a thorough testing in all conditions.

I was asked by the two chaps from LGB who came to do the remap to let them have my feedback in a week or so's time.

In the meantime, should we experience any of the usual happenings I will post again.

Best regards.

Michael.

[Purvesh]

I hope this time it's rectified for good.

Do keep us updated either way!

O... and enjoy the trip :)

[Lexusjohn]

Hi everyone,

We have had the car ECU remapped this morning.

It took about an hour and a half to do.

So far nothing to report other than the car is different.

We have both driven it and each think it feels different - is it better? - not sure yet.

I will wait until we have done a few hundred miles in it and see if anything shows up.

We are planning to go to Scotland in the next few days so will probably take the Lexus rather than the DB7 so as to give it a good long run and therefore a thorough testing in all conditions.

I was asked by the two chaps from LGB who came to do the remap to let them have my feedback in a week or so's time.

In the meantime, should we experience any of the usual happenings I will post again.

Best regards.

Michael.

I hope this will be an end to it for you michael, but I have reservations, best regards J.

[m'ladys husband]

John,

Reservations?

Not you too!

thanks for the kind thought anyway.

Michael.

[Damer]

I am about to buy a 2004 RX 300 SEL. Not test driven that particular car but not noticed the "lurch" in other RX's I have test driven. What should I be looking out for exactley? Does it effect every single single RX or just the unfortunate few?

PS Most of my driving is a short 5 mile commute in stop start traffic mixed in with weeking motorway trip of say 100 miles or so.

Thanks.

[harlowrog]

I am about to buy a 2004 RX 300 SEL. Not test driven that particular car but not noticed the "lurch" in other RX's I have test driven. What should I be looking out for exactley? Does it effect every single single RX or just the unfortunate few?

PS Most of my driving is a short 5 mile commute in stop start traffic mixed in with weeking motorway trip of say 100 miles or so.

Thanks.

If you never listen to me ever again PLEASE listen just this once, you MUST drive the car you are going to buy before you hand over any cash. The journey you do to commute each day will drive you nuts if your car lurches. To test, pull up to near stop like you would approaching a rounderbout but then before coming to a complete stop (about 2-8 mph) go back on the gas......wait for the thump in your back, the car has no idea what gear it should be in, it's horrible. Sorry to put a downer on your new car but I would NEVER EVER buy another one.

Roger

[Lexusjohn]

I am about to buy a 2004 RX 300 SEL. Not test driven that particular car but not noticed the "lurch" in other RX's I have test driven. What should I be looking out for exactley? Does it effect every single single RX or just the unfortunate few?

PS Most of my driving is a short 5 mile commute in stop start traffic mixed in with weeking motorway trip of say 100 miles or so.

Thanks.

If you buy one of these cars after reading these pages you deserve everything you get , good luck and look for something else, these depreciate quicker that driving over a cliff and there is a new updated model to assist in its decline. :winky:

[m'ladys husband]

Damer,

Roger and John are right!

If you buy the car without driving it you will be sorry.

They take a while to learn your driving style and then give you hell.

If there are two of you using the car its worse. Lexus say it is because two people drive it but given that here are memory seats and options to save personal preferences on the satnav etcetera one is given to assume they always intended the car to be driven by more thanone person so nuts to that argument!

Its a great car in most respects but the lurch is a real pain in the ****!

Go for a 400h or wait until we see if the fix they have just installed in the car we have is in fact a fix or just another fob off.

So far its too early to judge if its a help or not.

We will post againa s soona swe have had a chance to form an opinion.

If you do drive it and like the car get the dealer to underwrite the fact that there is a known problem and that he will either fix it or buy the car back at cost if you dont like it after say two months.

Good luck.

Michael.

[Damer]

Thanks for your honest opinions.

I am not committed to buying the car it is just that my local dealer was getting it into stock whilst I was on holiday, now he is away so it is being held for me until I have test driven it probably next week.

I really hope it doesn't lurch. I have test driven 3 others in the past and can't say I noticed anything but I will look out for it.

I did consider a 400h but repayments would be so much more it had to be discounted.

I have had my heart set on an RX for some time so will be really dissapointed if this is a let down.

[RxMike]

Thanks for your honest opinions.

I am not committed to buying the car it is just that my local dealer was getting it into stock whilst I was on holiday, now he is away so it is being held for me until I have test driven it probably next week.

I really hope it doesn't lurch. I have test driven 3 others in the past and can't say I noticed anything but I will look out for it.

I did consider a 400h but repayments would be so much more it had to be discounted.

I have had my heart set on an RX for some time so will be really dissapointed if this is a let down.

Damer

The 'lurch' in my opinion is probably present on all Rx 300 Mk2 cars.

For many owners / drivers it is not even an issue, but it is something that most definately can be noticed especially if you are aware of when it is likely to occur.

I can fully apppreciate how some owners who do a lot of slow speed, stop start style driving such as in town, would notice it more and therefore be rightfully anoyed at the quality of the ride they recieve. On the other hand, you as a new owner may not even notice the problem initially. I believe many, non-technically minded owners probably don't even notice it at all, even though the problem is likely there.

Michael and Damian have both been very pro-active on this issue with Lexus, and hopefully the remap to Michael's car is going to rectify this problem for us all shortly.....I take my hat off to you both. Trying to deal with this type of problem with a giant corporate company such as Toyota / Lexus I think is an outstanding feat of determination.

For me, yes the car lurches occasionally......I have posted about it many times on this thread and others, BUT IN MY CASE, with my driving conditions is is not a major issue, but is certainly one I would like to see the back of.

To give some perspective again to this.....

Last week I drove a two year old, fully loaded BMW M3 with a flappy paddle gearbox.

I have to say, the gearchanges both in auto, semi-auto and manual were without question the most horrific gear changes I have experienced on any car. To say the car lurched between gears would be a huge understatement. Firstly one was thrown forward in the seat, held there, and then kicked hard back into the seat no matter how gently or hard the car was being accelerated. For me, the car was totally undrivable. It was simply impossible for the gearbox to make a change smoothly, no matter what. This made the Rx gearchange issue look rediculous by comparison. Yet I am assured that this was normal for the M3 fiited with this box.

The Rx is a fantastic vehicle as I'm sure nearly all will agree. I don't regret buying mine at all. All cars depreciate with time and the Rx is certainly not a lemon in this respect, just take a look at some Mercedes models for depreciation as a comparison.

I don't think you'll find the Rx to be a let down...probably quite the opposite. It's not a sports car so don't expect it to be, but for a large heavy SUV I feel it performs admirably both on fuel consumption, ride, comfort, extras, build quality and reliability. I also feel it is the best loking SUV out there still. (although larger fatter wheels wouldn't do it any harm).

I hope you are not disappointed when you drive it.

Regards

RxMike

[Damer]

Thanks RX Mike at least some positives!

I am due to test drive it on Saturday would be earlier but work and the world cup get in the way. I am not expecting a sports car want I want is something with a bit of "status" to carry me and my family around in comfort. I have looked at others Volvo X90 - practical but dull, X5 very dull interior, Range Rover just too big for what I really need (plus sister has new super charged V8).

I'll let you know how I get on.

[swager]

Thanks RX Mike at least some positives!

I am due to test drive it on Saturday would be earlier but work and the world cup get in the way. I am not expecting a sports car want I want is something with a bit of "status" to carry me and my family around in comfort. I have looked at others Volvo X90 - practical but dull, X5 very dull interior, Range Rover just too big for what I really need (plus sister has new super charged V8).

I'll let you know how I get on.

looks like you have done your homework and came to the same conclusion as I did ,but 9 months on and many problems to long to list it in my view my RX was not a good buy .If you get it for the right price and bear in mind the new rx350 being introduced it has to be a great price you should buy it and enjoy it .Make sure you get all the problems with it sorted if you have any before your warrenty runs out .

cheers

swager