Double Standard In Speeding

[jaylist]

I know this is a well aired topic but the latest story in the Telegraph really got me narked.

The number of Derbyshire police cars caught speeding: 59; The number of Derbyshire police officers prosecuted: 0

By Nick Britten

(Filed: 27/05/2005)

Fifty-nine police cars were caught speeding on one county's roads last year - but not a single driver was prosecuted.

None of the marked cars captured by speed cameras in Derbyshire was known to have been using blue emergency lights.

But in every case senior officers decided that the journey they were making justified breaking the speed limit.

Derbyshire Police made the admission after The Derby Evening Telegraph used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the statistics.

It came a day after a Derbyshire officer accused of driving at 90mph in a 30mph zone walked free from court because his car's black box recorder, central to the case, had gone missing.

Yesterday, anti-speed camera campaigners attacked the force for "letting off" its speeding drivers.

The drivers of the 59 marked police vehicles were all sent notices of intended prosecution, which were revoked when they appealed to their superiors.

Cars attending emergency calls are exempt from speeding penalties and usually an officer on a 999 call radios camera monitoring staff if they pass a speed camera. Also, no penalties are issued if the flashing blue lights are seen by the camera. Most police cars have two lights on their roof which flash in sequence so one is always visible.

In each of the 59 cases no blue light could be seen and no call was made by the driver.

Supt Royston Smith, the head of Derbyshire Police's criminal justice unit, said: "Every case accepted that the vehicle being used was for operational police purposes in circumstances where it was necessary for the speed limit to be exceeded in the course of their duties."

He claimed that some of the cars might have been captured on camera at the split second their flashing blue light was not visible, which he said was the situation in "at least" 14 cases when the cars had strobe lights.

"If the people who examine the camera photos cannot see a blue light flashing, they automatically issue a summons. Once the officer gets the ticket they can then appeal and explain what the use was of the vehicle at the time.

"This is then subject to a rigorous examination by their divisional commanders and the head of the criminal justice section." He said there was no legal requirement to use lights and sirens when attending emergencies, and suggested that some officers turned them off to avoid alerting criminals.

But Caroline Chisolm, the spokesman for the road safety charity Brake, said the figures "smack of double standards with one rule for the police and another for the public".

She added: "It's a disturbing precedent when the police appear to be seen to be breaking the law and getting away with it.

"Safe drivers are getting fed up with being penalised for exceeding a speed limit by a very narrow margin. Little wonder they lose confidence in the police when officers are seen to escape punishment for the same offence."

Mark McArthur-Christie, a spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, said: "How come we have situations where a highly qualified private motorist and an equally well-trained police officer who both break the speed limit can be treated so differently?

"But more worryingly it is symbolic of a much deeper problem. It is evidence of more damage being done to the relationship between the police and the public, who are increasingly losing confidence."

Kevin Clinton, the head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "Any emergency driver, especially one exceeding the speed limit, should at least use blue lights. People need time to identify where vehicles are coming from, particularly at high speed, so they know how to react."

Last year, more than 51,000 speeding tickets were issued by the Derbyshire Safety Camera Partnership and Derbyshire Police. The partnership is increasing the number of mobile cameras over the bank holiday weekend.

A spokesman said it was "satisfied" with the police handling of the 59 cases. "Each incident was investigated by divisional commanders and by the head of criminal justice and we support their decision not to prosecute." :tsktsk:

[MrADeveci]

blah blah blah ......... as per usual, papers, media - always first to critisice police officers.

BLAH :tsktsk:

[jaylist]

blah blah blah ......... as per usual, papers, media - always first to critisice police officers.

BLAH  :tsktsk:

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I've got two longtime friends who are 'filth' and have nothing against the police per se, but this is sureley wrong? If the papers are reporting it then all the better.

Motorists in this country are treated worse than any other group of the public. I feel hounded out of my car by the number of gatsos,truvelos, unmarked cars, cones, slow signs, accident signs, go slow areas, high petrol and tax prices etc. Yet I am a law abiding citizen who pays my taxes on time and never does anyone wrong.

It's about time this changed.

Saftey Camera partnerships - my AR$E

[MrADeveci]

Kevin Clinton, the head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "Any emergency driver, especially one exceeding the speed limit, should at least use blue lights. People need time to identify where vehicles are coming from, particularly at high speed, so they know how to react."

What does he know ? does he drive police cars with blue lights NO.

He is too eager to critisise ... again.

YET..... at 4.30am in the morning ............. if the road is clear, and there are no other road users.... there is NO NEED to put on the blue and twos .....

Yet, if you put them on ...... the local residents will COMPLAIN that they can hear them ... and see the blue lights through there windows whilst trying to sleep.....

So again ....... what does he know ? ........ head of road safety, that's what you are, not someone who as had the advance police training ... so bog off.

[Mr Morse]

Gotta agree with Jaylist here - Pants!

Plod (or the Spy Camera) gets Johnny Motorist 3 pts each time

Plod gets off each time he's late for refs...

Is this right? Shurely not I beg?

[Tony-Bones]

Gotta agree with Jaylist here - Pants!

Oi "pants" is my "motto" :D I think some people may be missing the point, beit "blues two's or your mothers shoes" 99.9%" of the time these people "race" to attend somone in distress, being let "off" for excess speed in an attempt to serve "US" is valiant to their job. would anyone here "speed" in their job at !mph to face a "bullit"

[jaylist]

Kevin Clinton, the head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "Any emergency driver, especially one exceeding the speed limit, should at least use blue lights. People need time to identify where vehicles are coming from, particularly at high speed, so they know how to react."

What does he know ? does he drive police cars with blue lights NO.

He is too eager to critisise ... again.

YET..... at 4.30am in the morning ............. if the road is clear, and there are no other road users.... there is NO NEED to put on the blue and twos .....

Yet, if you put them on ...... the local residents will COMPLAIN that they can hear them ... and see the blue lights through there windows whilst trying to sleep.....

So again ....... what does he know ? ........ head of road safety, that's what you are, not someone who as had the advance police training ... so bog off.

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True points I'm sure. But is there ever a justiificaton to do 90 in a 30MH?

Actually I'm playing devils advocate and think we should have dual speed limits. 20 in school areas in the day. 40-50 at night depending on the road etc.

But as the law stand if I did 3 times the national speed limit I would get a ban and probably a prison sentence.

Dual standards for sure.

J

[jaylist]

I think Monster Mat should drive his full wack and when they ask him why he was appoaching warp factor 9 he could say "I'm just testing it m'lud"

[MrADeveci]

I think Monster Mat should drive his full wack and when they ask him why he was appoaching warp factor 9 he could say "I'm just testing it m'lud"

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I would get away with it ........ If I was driving :shutit:

[Bazza]

Kevin Clinton, the head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "Any emergency driver, especially one exceeding the speed limit, should at least use blue lights. People need time to identify where vehicles are coming from, particularly at high speed, so they know how to react."

What does he know ? does he drive police cars with blue lights NO.

He is too eager to critisise ... again.

YET..... at 4.30am in the morning ............. if the road is clear, and there are no other road users.... there is NO NEED to put on the blue and twos .....

Yet, if you put them on ...... the local residents will COMPLAIN that they can hear them ... and see the blue lights through there windows whilst trying to sleep.....

So again ....... what does he know ? ........ head of road safety, that's what you are, not someone who as had the advance police training ... so bog off.

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so if i go out at 4.30 in the morning and speed up the road , its ok then

if i am out walking at 4.30 in the morning i think it fair that i should have a warning that the car approaching me is travelling at above the speed limit

now surely it would be better to deal with a few complaints from locals than to be dealing with an accident because no warnings were heard or seen

"im sorry sir yes we ran over your son because he didnt realise we were exceeding the speed limit, but at least we didnt wake up any body "

;)

[MrADeveci]

so if i go out at 4.30 in the morning and speed up the road , its ok then

we are talking about police drivers on an emergency call ? not anyone.

if i am out walking at 4.30 in the morning i think it fair that i should have a warning that the car approaching me is travelling at above the speed limit

You shouldn't be out walking ... at that time of the night ! lol ;)

now surely it would be better to deal with a few complaints from locals than to be dealing with an accident because no warnings were heard or seen

You think so ? .... you want to be in charge of dealing with all the complaining residents?

Just because the sirens are not on .... that don't mean that the driver is paying any less attention.

The sirens, and two tones ... don't always "alert" people mate, trust me ..... alot of the time, it confuses people ... and they don't know what to do !!

"im sorry sir yes we ran over your son because he didnt realise we were exceeding the speed limit, but at least we didnt wake up any body "

Again ......... that just wouldn't happen in reality would it ? B)

[Bazza]

damn how do you use those quote buttons

[Bazza]

so if i go out at 4.30 in the morning and speed up the road , its ok then

we are talking about police drivers on an emergency call ? not anyone.

but you say that it is allright because its early morning , so therefore it must be allright for me, surely the same dangers which face a police driver will apply to me

if i am out walking at 4.30 in the morning i think it fair that i should have a warning that the car approaching me is travelling at above the speed limit

You shouldn't be out walking ... at that time of the night ! lol

but i was just returning from the police station to report a crime , because after waiting all night no officers had turned up, something about them all doing people for speeding

now surely it would be better to deal with a few complaints from locals than to be dealing with an accident because no warnings were heard or seen

You think so ? .... you want to be in charge of dealing with all the complaining residents?

Just because the sirens are not on .... that don't mean that the driver is paying any less attention.

The sirens, and two tones ... don't always "alert" people mate, trust me ..... alot of the time, it confuses people ... and they don't know what to do !!

i would rather deal with a hundred irate tired residents than one injured persons relatives.....how about you ?

the police drivers capabilities and abilities are not in question , its the safety of joe public which is !

"im sorry sir yes we ran over your son because he didnt realise we were exceeding the speed limit, but at least we didnt wake up any body "

Again ......... that just wouldn't happen in reality would it ?

in the perfect world it wouldnt happen

in reality !! it is a possibility

:)

[adz]

In each of the 59 cases no blue light could be seen and no call was made by the driver

Surely the "no call" part is more relevant than not using blue lights. Doesn't that usually mean there's no emergency? I thought there were guidelines for when to use blues/ two's.

I understand why police officers feel obliged to defend their comrades when they mess up, but the injustice and double standards suck. How can we be expected to abide by the laws when a lot of the police including high ranking officers are blatantly taking the :tsktsk: ?

Slightly -At least 2 bikers have actually recieved 12 month-24 month custodial sentences in the last couple of years for speeding on their bikes.They were insured and legal but went silly speeds for a few seconds. The difference with a bike being you can be doing a ton in under 6 seconds.A custodial sentence is ridiculous when you consider the knock on effects to the family/ community/ country.

No drivers are infallible, we all make mistakes and not all police drivers are trained in high speed pursuit driving. Only traffic units have the skill/ vehicles to control vehicles at speed and even they make mistakes.

[lexus boy]

You see the police always claim they are much more qualified drivers. So does that mean someone with a racing license can do the same.

The law and order of this country is atroucious (sp?) if this is the example that we are meant to follow it is no wonder no1 sticks to the speed limits!

[Fidgits]

I'm sorry Ahmet, but you are SO wrong...

The lights can be activated without the sirens, and if you are on an emergency call, you must display the lights, even without the siren... and you seem to be missing the key fact, it appears most of these officers were not on 'emergency calls'.

You can rant all you want, but this is plain wrong - from my reading, these are officiers speeding, not to a call, but just plain speeding, and they have been let off..

Its double standards, and IMO, if you were an honest copper*, you would stand up and agree its just wrong..

I mean, if a copper was caught dealing Class A drugs, you wouldnt be on here saying he should be let off, and its all cop bashing, well, wheres the difference? If a member of the public does the sort of speeds a lot of these officiers have been caught at, they'd end up in jail - whereas, these boys in blue dont get so much as a slap on the wrist... its just wrong!

*I'm not saying your not honest, but i know of quite a few boys in blue that are speaking out about the double standards in road safety enforcement

[marcus]

last week i was going up the A2 and i was doing about 80+ as you do i looked to see what was come up on me .....................there was 4 bike cops comeing up on me very fast there i was thinking thats it im going to get pulled over now well i slowed down to about 70 and let them go pass..............and as soon as they did i pulled out to try and keep up with them..............as they did not have any "lights or sirens on"they was just speeding so i joined them and let me tell you they was doing well over 100 how is this right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now say there was a cop with R/gun who would he clock speeding it would not be them it would be me thats what sucks ;)

whats the saying "do as i say! not as i do!"

[MrADeveci]

The lights can be activated without the sirens, and if you are on an emergency call, you must display the lights, even without the siren... and you seem to be missing the key fact, it appears most of these officers were not on 'emergency calls'.

Are you speaking from experience Ian ? or what.

Because, I' sorry mate ... but that comment is total rubbish.

If you are on an emergency call, you DO NOT ... ok ... ill repeat...

DO NOT

Have to use your blue lights, who told you that ?

You only use your bluelights, for 1 of 3 reasons ......... I know what those reasons are.

And one of them IS : To facilitate your progress through traffic .

So if there is no traffic, at 4.30am, you do not have to use them.

So don't say you have to use them mate, cause you don't.....

and what's this about honesty ? I'm telling people here when the correct usage of blue lights apply.

No, I don't agree with police officers speeding for no reason, no to I agree with police officers setting bad examples, IE parking on double yellows, and so on ......

So please don't even suggest that I'm not honest ... because you are getting confused ..........

[Fidgits]

i wasnt suggestting you wasnt honest - if you read my post properly you'll see it was a figure of speech that i specifically made a joke out of not calling you dishonest... chill man B)

And i didnt say they HAD to use their lights, i said if they were answering an emergency call which required them to travel in excess of the speed limit, or go against traffic markings/lights they should make themselves visable - and in answer to your question, my dad has done the Police advanced driving course, and okay, it was a while ago, but i ask you Ahmet, what division of the police are you in? have you done the advanced drivers course? where does your info come from - from your perception of the rules, or black and white from the guidelines?

My point really comes down to, that article suggests a least some of these officers werent answering emergency calls... and i think you were very quick to jump on the defensive... but you are agreeing with my point..

[MrADeveci]

i wasnt suggestting you wasnt honest - if you read my post properly you'll see it was a figure of speech that i specifically made a joke out of not calling you dishonest... chill man  B)

Ok - Cool ..., just thought you were suggesting I wasn't honest !

And i didnt say they HAD to use their lights, i said if they were answering an emergency call which required them to travel in excess of the speed limit, or go against traffic markings/lights - and in answer to your question, my dad has done the Police advanced driving course, and okay, it was a while ago, but i ask you Ahmet, what division of the police are you in? have you done the advanced drivers course?

Has your dad complete the Advanced driving institution ? done by the police ... or the actual advanced police driving course (and obviously practised it?) - like I do on a daily basis.

I'm in the Metropolitan Police Service ... and yes, I have done the advance police driving course, needless to say that nationwide, the police driving courses all look @ the Met for courses, as it was the Met who introduced the driving courses, and "the system" in the first place :D

My point really comes down to, that article suggests a least some of these officers werent answering emergency calls... and i think you were very quick to jump on the defensive...

Point taken, I did jump on the defensive .... however, that does not mean I agree with those who break the law, (in police cars or not) - and I totally disagree with it ....

I was on the defensive, mearly to say that "don't tarnish us all with the same brush"

Which is often the case mate ......... ;)

[Fidgits]

Has your dad complete the Advanced driving institution ? done by the police ... or the actual advanced police driving course (and obviously practised it?) - like I do on a daily basis.

Yes, my dad did the full advanced police training at Penrith, and spent many years using the skills 'on the job' so to speak..

I'm in the Metropolitan Police Service ... and yes, I have done the advance police driving course, needless to say that nationwide, the police driving courses all look @ the Met for courses, as it was the Met who introduced the driving courses, and "the system" in the first place  :D

fair enough - so when you quote the rules & regs, this is in black and white, and not just your interpretation?

Point taken, I did jump on the defensive .... however, that does not mean I agree with those who break the law, (in police cars or not) - and I totally disagree with it ....

I was on the defensive, mearly to say that "don't tarnish us all with the same brush"

Which is often the case mate .........  ;)

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I wasnt mate - hence why i said

Its double standards, and IMO, if you were an honest copper*, you would stand up and agree its just wrong..

I was trying to say, most coppers would say this is out of order - in other words, giving the majority the benifit of doubt...

[MrADeveci]

Ok - obviously some mis understanding by me ........

We'll start again ........ :D

I totally disagree with the coppers breaking the speed limit because they are late for refs ..... or in fact ..... for any other reason than having to attend an emergency :D

Hows that ? B)

[Bazza]

Ok - obviously some mis understanding by me ........

We'll start again ........  :D

I totally disagree with the coppers breaking the speed limit because they are late for refs ..... or in fact ..... for any other reason than having to attend an emergency :D

Hows that ?  B)

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an emergency situation that it is essential that the police attend in the quickest time

so often see the police speeding along with all bells and whistles

in what incidents is it actually necessary for the police to attend to in such a hurry ?

[Fidgits]

Ok - obviously some mis understanding by me ........

We'll start again ........  :D

I totally disagree with the coppers breaking the speed limit because they are late for refs ..... or in fact ..... for any other reason than having to attend an emergency :D

Hows that ?  B)

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yep - sounds right to me...

of course, as Barrie says, what circumstances actaully require the use of excessive speed?

[MrADeveci]

in what incidents is it actually necessary for the police to attend to in such a hurry ?

There really isnt a defined list ..................

But in general circumstances.

A suspect on scene.

A person's life in danger.

Things like that ...................

Car accidents,

Fights ............

Intruder alarms ........ panic attack alarms ............ and so on .