Open Discussion On Rear Multilink

[Monster-Mat]

Ok, so as not to crap on the TDI thread

HERE

I thought it better to start a new disccusion here, anyone that feels they have an imput please do contribute.....

This is what i am hoping to achive.one way or another, but not as bling

My thoughts are the lower arm would be better made from a Billet of aluminum.....?

[Bazza]

would aluminium be a strong enough alternative to steel

[Monster-Mat]

well this is what the discussion is,

lets discuss what the requirements are.

To be strong enough to withstand the stresses that drifting will induce, however to be as light as possible.

to allow a wider scope of adjustability, through use of another means to eccemtric adjusters

to be a viable item to work in Track racing aswell

[lexus boy]

i kinow its pricey but if you want strength why not go for some titanium?

[legendswraith]

Right now its a new thread the tie rod is almost exactly the same as an input rod for a system i work on and thats stainless tube 3mm wall thickness with adjustable eye ends both sides i thing with a bit of shortening and a comp mount fork end it will be the same or more likely better

So are you pondering what i am pondering :D

The actual link arms going to be a custom job any way you look at it (hows your mig welding ) but i reckon that the actual thickness of the tubes on there is the same as something else i know of.

If you have a friendly machine shop there i would suggest having interconnecting pieces made out of stainless and have weld lips turned on especially near the connection to the wheel hub wouldn't like the idea of that shearing

This is one of those where i can see how i would do it but i am finding it hard to explain

[legendswraith]

Titanium is a little bit of a misnoma its used when you need weight reduction with strengthening issues and its a bugger to weld too and it wouldn't be just expensive it would be astronomical for the tensile strength gain compared to weight its not really worth it

[Rob]

never mind doing any machining with titanium, its a pain in the butt.

what do u want to do mat, replace the complete rear arm with something like the pic? ( top and bottom wishbones) or just go along the tie rod route?

as u can see in the pic above the spherical bearing has a grease nipple, I would defo make sure the one u get has a grease point. We scrap so many of the so called "sealed" bearings at every major check just because minute pieces of dirt have got in and started to bind the bearings, the ones with grease points hardly have this problem.

i would also suggest the use of double locking nuts rather than the single nut in the tdi pic, u will be surprised at how much a rod can rotate thru vibration.

as i mentioned earlier the threads on my parts are imperial ( not sure what pitch) but they are rolled rather than cut so as not to produce stress raisers, but the threads on the eye ends/bolts are the least of ur concern - u have to look at the tubing that u plan to use to ensure sufficient wall thickness after the threads are cut

also can u do this on a lathe to ensure the tap goes in straight??

as said earlier the bolts/eye ends ar cadmium coated to avoid rust, u will get a it of discolouration but that is it.

when u can give me some dimensions i can look further, i have some bolts and eye ends in mind already just need to look in the store to see if they fit, there are no strength issues with these as they are from hydraulic powered( 3000psi) flight control units (PFCU) that get a battering and i have never had to change one of these due to bearing failure.

[Monster-Mat]

i kinow its pricey but if you want strength why not go for some titanium?

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as has been said Titanium is out the question, plus it will be to brittle for this application

Right now its a new thread the tie rod is almost exactly the same as an input rod for a system i work on and thats stainless tube 3mm wall thickness with adjustable eye ends both sides i thing with a bit of shortening and a comp mount fork end it will be the same or more likely better

Yep for the lower Control arm that would comply

So are you pondering what i am pondering

yep, will try and get measurements soon.or even a std lower arm

The actual link arms going to be a custom job any way you look at it (hows your mig welding

YEP custom all the way.....MIG is fine

but i reckon that the actual thickness of the tubes on there is the same as something else i know of.

If you have a friendly machine shop there i would suggest having interconnecting pieces made out of stainless and have weld lips turned on especially near the connection to the wheel hub wouldn't like the idea of that shearing ohmy.gif

I dont think we need any shear!! doing it in Tube will be easier in the long run, but, my idea of a billet? wouldnt that be stronger

This is one of those where i can see how i would do it but i am finding it hard to explain

yep know what you mean

what do u want to do mat, replace the complete rear arm with something like the pic? ( top and bottom wishbones) or just go along the tie rod route?

yep i want to replace all the rear lower arm and control rods with spherical bearing supported items, this will give me more control over settings, more stability and strength, and less unsprung weight if done well enough

as u can see in the pic above the spherical bearing has a grease nipple, I would defo make sure the one u get has a grease point.

indeed

i would also suggest the use of double locking nuts rather than the single nut in the tdi pic, u will be surprised at how much a rod can rotate thru vibration.

again indeed

as i mentioned earlier the threads on my parts are imperial ( not sure what pitch) but they are rolled rather than cut so as not to produce stress raisers, but the threads on the eye ends/bolts are the least of ur concern - u have to look at the tubing that u plan to use to ensure sufficient wall thickness after the threads are cut

also can u do this on a lathe to ensure the tap goes in straight??

once i have the design, im hoping to take it to a machine shop to get the threads cut, etc etc

Edited April 9, 2005 by Monster-Mat

[legendswraith]

yep doing it in billet would be ideal if you can get it done, its times like this i wish i cound get near a cnc

If the bit i am thinking of will work i will try to get hold of some of them so that may be partly sorted and these are keyway locked and locking nut and tab washer (you can wirelock it too if you are really keen) so coming undone is not a problem

[Monster-Mat]

as said earlier the bolts/eye ends ar cadmium coated to avoid rust, u will get a it of discolouration but that is it.

excellent

when u can give me some dimensions i can look further, i have some bolts and eye ends in mind already just need to look in the store to see if they fit, there are no strength issues with these as they are from hydraulic powered( 3000psi) flight control units (PFCU) that get a battering and i have never had to change one of these due to bearing failure.

working on it alread just need to find someone who can CNC 7075 grade ally now

[Monster-Mat]

yep doing it in billet would be ideal if you can get it done, its times like this i wish i cound get near a cnc

If the bit i am thinking of will work i will try to get hold of some of them so that may be partly sorted and these are keyway locked and locking nut and tab washer (you can wirelock it too if you are really keen) so coming undone is not a problem

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This is the bit for the lower control arms..........?

if so its a start indeed, i see only the actual lower wishbone/arm being the part thats a pain to replicate, maybe im looking at the lower arm with 2 much technicality.

Maybe all that is needed is to modify the lower arm to remove the Eccentric adjuster, say by cutting the last 50-60mm off the arm, and replacing with a welded steel block tapped to accept a spherical bearing ?, could even be done both ends, and then plating the upper open parts of the arms to form a Box section

[legendswraith]

yep thats the bit for the lower control arms should be quite easy to source i'm just hoping its not part of a bigger assembly the actual sphericals that attach to this as it comes are about 3/4in wide and the spherical bore itself i think is roughly 1/4in and the rod length as i remember it is about 10-12" with a 1/2" diameter

It may be vague but it gives you an idea as too whether it will fit or can be cut to fit

[Rob]

the eye end i had in mind has about a 1/2" bore but all depends on what space we have to deal with, when we know this then we can start looking at specifics - over to mark i think.

[Dayu]

As a somewhat related piece of info, TRD has recently come out with a new rear suspension for the IS/Altezza. Links here -

Original:

http://www.trdparts.jp/altezza-ss2-sus.html

Translater:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl...za-ss2-sus.html

[legendswraith]

As a somewhat related piece of info, TRD has recently come out with a new rear suspension for the IS/Altezza. Links here -

Original:

http://www.trdparts.jp/altezza-ss2-sus.html

Translater:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl...za-ss2-sus.html

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after looking at that from what i gather matt has in mind if it comes to pass it will be superior to that as there will be more adjustment and the eye ends will be replaceable

Not saying that they don't know what they are doing but this will be a special one off so you don't have to think about cost effectiveness

[Monster-Mat]

As a somewhat related piece of info, TRD has recently come out with a new rear suspension for the IS/Altezza. Links here -

Original:

http://www.trdparts.jp/altezza-ss2-sus.html

Translater:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl...za-ss2-sus.html

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i found this infomation a few months back when TRD released this stuff in Japan, for the Altezza Cup cars, Unfortunatly they will not sell openly outside of the motorsport fraternity, even though i have close contacts with Toyota in that area, the reason is they dont want these parts outside of Japan, they are only a limited run item.

the design of the subframe, is to allow ultra low running suspension as the Altezza cup cars do on 15" and 16" wheels, the coilovers are a track bias set up and would be a trauma on the public road.

i am however desperatly trying to get the differential oil cooler!!

[Monster-Mat]

i am going to source the lower arm and bottom control arm, this will then allow me to get the measurements required.

[legendswraith]

i am going to source the lower arm and bottom control arm, this will then allow me to get the measurements required.

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will be trying to get some pics of what i mean at work tomorrow and the doing some demands ;)

[Monster-Mat]

i am going to source the lower arm and bottom control arm, this will then allow me to get the measurements required.

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will be trying to get some pics of what i mean at work tomorrow and the doing some demands ;)

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NSN **** 99 *** **** :D

[legendswraith]

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NSN **** 99 *** **** :D

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haven't the faintest idea what you mean ;)

[legendswraith]

keep your eye on your inbox matt have some pics over to you soon

[Monster-Mat]

keep your eye on your inbox matt have some pics over to you soon

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Observing............

[legendswraith]

right now i have finally got the fork end and 2 different types of eye ends one type is straight and the other is cantered off a few degrees i don't know which one would work out best. Also have sourced some matching close tolerance bolts for the eye ends and for the forks if you have the measurement of the rod (theres about 1 1/2" adjustment on the threads) i can visit workshops and see what they can do

[Monster-Mat]

right now i have finally got the fork end and 2 different types of eye ends one type is straight and the other is cantered off a few degrees i don't know which one would work out best. Also have sourced some matching close tolerance bolts for the eye ends and for the forks if you have the measurement of the rod (theres about 1 1/2" adjustment on the threads) i can visit workshops and see what they can do 

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will get measurements soonest

[legendswraith]

right now i have finally got the fork end and 2 different types of eye ends one type is straight and the other is cantered off a few degrees i don't know which one would work out best. Also have sourced some matching close tolerance bolts for the eye ends and for the forks if you have the measurement of the rod (theres about 1 1/2" adjustment on the threads) i can visit workshops and see what they can do 

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will get measurements soonest

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good good will be mainly in stainless but i will try for titanium if they have any